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We can't do nuttin'...
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:54:25 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: I was talking about intellectual pursuits...most of you see no need for that...that a trade school education will suffice. === I'm not opposed to gaining knowledge for its own sake, far from it. It is not an inalienable right however, and no one should expect the general public to pay for it. Nor should anyone pursuing it expect to be automatically rewarded with a living wage. Living wages are paid for productivity and contributions to society. Value is in the eye of the beholder. |
We can't do nuttin'...
wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:54:25 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: I was talking about intellectual pursuits...most of you see no need for that...that a trade school education will suffice. === I'm not opposed to gaining knowledge for its own sake, far from it. It is not an inalienable right however, and no one should expect the general public to pay for it. Nor should anyone pursuing it expect to be automatically rewarded with a living wage. Living wages are paid for productivity and contributions to society. Value is in the eye of the beholder. Very well stated. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. |
We can't do nuttin'...
|
We can't do nuttin'...
Justan Olphart wrote:
On 10/11/2015 11:22 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. When you are coming out of a university with a $50,000-100,000 student debt load, it certainly better be something that gets you a job. I have no interest in spending tax money to teach things that are just handy for coffee shop conversations about things that do not return that investment to the people. The Russians and the Chinese together are still spending on their military only a small amount of what we spend. I'm not advocating that we eliminate military spending, but I do think we should seriously cut back on it each year until it is at a level that is no more than half of what we currently spend. Their philosophy is different. They are willing to spend blood more than money. The US wants to have a war where no GIs are killed. That is not cheap. It's also absurd. Granted but that is the US philosophy right now. We are spending about a half a million dollars per combatant we kill, simply because we want to use robot weapons manned by a guy who is safely ensconced in South Dakota. He erased those loans with his bankruptcies. What he has left is bragging rights to his degrees. Nothing more. Those are likely bull****, too. If not, he wasted them. |
We can't do nuttin'...
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade.. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 6:16 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade.. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. There are no known uses for Harry's skills and training. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 8:23 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 12:06 AM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Gee, Bilious, I hope the taxpayers of your state didn't subsidize your education. Why was college necessary, anyway? Couldn't you have picked up some workbooks at the library or gotten your education in the military? :) There's another famous Bill who never graduated college. He, apparently, knew what he wanted to do with his life and did it. How about you Krausevich? |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 8:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and "engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods. Harry cracks me up. I took a mismatch of electrical/electronics/facility engineering courses over the years it took to get a basic degree. None of it applied directly to what I ended up doing during my working career but much of the math and physics involved were very much related. For example, the principles of electromagnetic radiation and energy transfer in the field of thin film optical coatings are very similar to that of RF transmission systems. Same use of a Smith chart, same basic principles except at a much, much shorter wavelength. It was easier for me with a background in transmitter and radar systems to get my head wrapped around thin films in optics than most mechanical types. You're talking way over Harry's head. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 8:29 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and "engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods. What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know? Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) Andy borrowed wits has that department covered. You aren't a satirist. You're just weird. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 12:06 AM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Gee, Bilious, I hope the taxpayers of your state didn't subsidize your education. Why was college necessary, anyway? Couldn't you have picked up some workbooks at the library or gotten your education in the military? :) |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and "engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods. Harry cracks me up. I took a mismatch of electrical/electronics/facility engineering courses over the years it took to get a basic degree. None of it applied directly to what I ended up doing during my working career but much of the math and physics involved were very much related. For example, the principles of electromagnetic radiation and energy transfer in the field of thin film optical coatings are very similar to that of RF transmission systems. Same use of a Smith chart, same basic principles except at a much, much shorter wavelength. It was easier for me with a background in transmitter and radar systems to get my head wrapped around thin films in optics than most mechanical types. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and "engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods. What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know? Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) |
We can't do nuttin'...
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:02:31 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. === That's not really true except at the nuts and bolts device level. All engineering, and especially electrical, is actually the study of applied mathematics. That never becomes obsolete because the underlying phenomena are based on the laws of physics. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 9:19 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 10:03 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 8:21 AM, Justan Olphart wrote: You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. There are no known uses for Harry's skills and training. Harry reminds me very much of someone else I know who is just about the same age as Harry. He majored in college in English with a minor in journalism. Following graduation he entered the Army. I think he was drafted because he only served for two years as a second lieutenant which included a short tour of duty in Vietnam as an Army journalist/photographer. Today, 40 something years later, in social gatherings he invariably ends up talking about his time in the Army and the fact that he's a vet. He has "Vietnam Vet" tags on his car and wears the typical "Vietnam Vet" geezer ball cap wherever he goes. He's proud of his service but after a while the constant references to his service starts to become repetitious and obnoxious in a way, especially to other vets like me who spent many more years on active duty but rarely talk about it or even think about it. It was a period of time for most of us .. a chapter in our lives ... and we all moved on. I was talking to my wife about him after he visited us a while back and mentioned that he seemed to be living in the past all the time. Then it dawned on me why. The time he spent in the Army writing news stories was the highlight of his entire working career. He never really did much else of any consequence. He wrote for various local and small town newspapers or periodicals as a free-lance contributor from time to time but that was about it. His wife worked full time for a major company for over 20 years while he did various odd-jobs, more as a "handyman" with the occasional writing for the local paper. I've met and known hundreds of engineers and physicists over the years. None spend much time talking about their degrees, how many they hold or even where they went to school. It really doesn't matter in the real world, other than getting the job opportunity in the first place. Harry reminds me of the guy I described. Based on his countless posts about his education, his multiple degrees and his sense that the education, types of degrees and work experience can't possibly compare to his capability of "abstract thinking" (which, BTW, is part of *any* college level ... heck .. even high school level course of study) makes me think the highlight of *his* career was going to school and that's about it, much like the other guy who's highlight was his two year stint in the Army .... 40 something years ago. It's incredible to me how obsessed you right-wingers are with me. There is no way I would discuss my past or present professional work in any detail in this pigpen of conservative crappers. Just the other day, Fretwell "accused" me of being a fan of Cuba's Castro brothers when, in fact, for more than 15 years I have been working as a consultant with an NGO that does what it can to create problems for them. Another of my clients trains indigenous populations in the third world to build and maintain sustainable communities -housing and water, mostly. A third is a multi-billion dollar investment management firm. A fourth is a labor union. Oh, I was one of six members of a labor union team that twice negotiated the largest labor union contract in the United States. No, I don't brag about my days in the Army. Fortunately, I didn't have any. The reluctant virgin here, by the way, is your buddy FlaJim. What has he posted here about his boat, his work since being mustered out of the navy, his wife, his kids, his anything? Answer...nothing. Have nice day. I don't want people calling me a braggart. :-) |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 8:21 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. There are no known uses for Harry's skills and training. Harry reminds me very much of someone else I know who is just about the same age as Harry. He majored in college in English with a minor in journalism. Following graduation he entered the Army. I think he was drafted because he only served for two years as a second lieutenant which included a short tour of duty in Vietnam as an Army journalist/photographer. Today, 40 something years later, in social gatherings he invariably ends up talking about his time in the Army and the fact that he's a vet. He has "Vietnam Vet" tags on his car and wears the typical "Vietnam Vet" geezer ball cap wherever he goes. He's proud of his service but after a while the constant references to his service starts to become repetitious and obnoxious in a way, especially to other vets like me who spent many more years on active duty but rarely talk about it or even think about it. It was a period of time for most of us .. a chapter in our lives ... and we all moved on. I was talking to my wife about him after he visited us a while back and mentioned that he seemed to be living in the past all the time. Then it dawned on me why. The time he spent in the Army writing news stories was the highlight of his entire working career. He never really did much else of any consequence. He wrote for various local and small town newspapers or periodicals as a free-lance contributor from time to time but that was about it. His wife worked full time for a major company for over 20 years while he did various odd-jobs, more as a "handyman" with the occasional writing for the local paper. I've met and known hundreds of engineers and physicists over the years. None spend much time talking about their degrees, how many they hold or even where they went to school. It really doesn't matter in the real world, other than getting the job opportunity in the first place. Harry reminds me of the guy I described. Based on his countless posts about his education, his multiple degrees and his sense that the education, types of degrees and work experience can't possibly compare to his capability of "abstract thinking" (which, BTW, is part of *any* college level ... heck .. even high school level course of study) makes me think the highlight of *his* career was going to school and that's about it, much like the other guy who's highlight was his two year stint in the Army .... 40 something years ago. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 10:03 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 8:21 AM, Justan Olphart wrote: You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. There are no known uses for Harry's skills and training. Harry reminds me very much of someone else I know who is just about the same age as Harry. He majored in college in English with a minor in journalism. Following graduation he entered the Army. I think he was drafted because he only served for two years as a second lieutenant which included a short tour of duty in Vietnam as an Army journalist/photographer. Today, 40 something years later, in social gatherings he invariably ends up talking about his time in the Army and the fact that he's a vet. He has "Vietnam Vet" tags on his car and wears the typical "Vietnam Vet" geezer ball cap wherever he goes. He's proud of his service but after a while the constant references to his service starts to become repetitious and obnoxious in a way, especially to other vets like me who spent many more years on active duty but rarely talk about it or even think about it. It was a period of time for most of us .. a chapter in our lives ... and we all moved on. I was talking to my wife about him after he visited us a while back and mentioned that he seemed to be living in the past all the time. Then it dawned on me why. The time he spent in the Army writing news stories was the highlight of his entire working career. He never really did much else of any consequence. He wrote for various local and small town newspapers or periodicals as a free-lance contributor from time to time but that was about it. His wife worked full time for a major company for over 20 years while he did various odd-jobs, more as a "handyman" with the occasional writing for the local paper. I've met and known hundreds of engineers and physicists over the years. None spend much time talking about their degrees, how many they hold or even where they went to school. It really doesn't matter in the real world, other than getting the job opportunity in the first place. Harry reminds me of the guy I described. Based on his countless posts about his education, his multiple degrees and his sense that the education, types of degrees and work experience can't possibly compare to his capability of "abstract thinking" (which, BTW, is part of *any* college level ... heck .. even high school level course of study) makes me think the highlight of *his* career was going to school and that's about it, much like the other guy who's highlight was his two year stint in the Army .... 40 something years ago. It's incredible to me how obsessed you right-wingers are with me. There is no way I would discuss my past or present professional work in any detail in this pigpen of conservative crappers. Just the other day, Fretwell "accused" me of being a fan of Cuba's Castro brothers when, in fact, for more than 15 years I have been working as a consultant with an NGO that does what it can to create problems for them. Another of my clients trains indigenous populations in the third world to build and maintain sustainable communities -housing and water, mostly. A third is a multi-billion dollar investment management firm. A fourth is a labor union. Oh, I was one of six members of a labor union team that twice negotiated the largest labor union contract in the United States. No, I don't brag about my days in the Army. Fortunately, I didn't have any. The reluctant virgin here, by the way, is your buddy FlaJim. What has he posted here about his boat, his work since being mustered out of the navy, his wife, his kids, his anything? Answer...nothing. Have nice day. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 8:53 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 10/13/2015 8:29 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and "engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods. What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know? Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) Andy borrowed wits has that department covered. You aren't a satirist. You're just weird. I guess I need to let Harry loose from the Bozo Bin. Getting to be too much of a pain to respond to his quotes in other people's posts. Harry ... you commented to Greg the following: "You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties." This is an example of your shallow and misguided idea of what college is. Greg may not hold a formal degree but it's obvious he doesn't need one. He's knowledgeable about many things and has exercised his intellectual curiosity to learn and accomplish more than many "highly educated" engineers or technical types I've known over the years. Also ... you just posted (above): "What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know?" The answer to those questions (in my case) are "no" and "yes". I only pursued a degree because I thought I'd need it (it's what everyone told me, anyway) following my time in the Navy. Turns out I would have followed the same career path and would have been able to accomplish whatever I have in my accomplishment bucket without the degree. It certainly helped. But, (and you may find this impossible to understand or believe), the Navy electronic and electrical schools covered the same technical material in a much more comprehensive way when compared to the civilian colleges and universities where I also took courses. In civilian schools I had more problems with "Business Law 101" and "Accounting II". The electrical and electronics were duck soup for me and I usually ended up helping others in the classes get concepts clear in their heads. Back in high school I remember being told, "you don't need to know all the answers ... you just need to know where to look for them". |
We can't do nuttin'...
|
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 10:48 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 8:53 AM, Justan Olphart wrote: On 10/13/2015 8:29 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and "engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods. What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know? Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) Andy borrowed wits has that department covered. You aren't a satirist. You're just weird. I guess I need to let Harry loose from the Bozo Bin. Getting to be too much of a pain to respond to his quotes in other people's posts. Harry ... you commented to Greg the following: "You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties." This is an example of your shallow and misguided idea of what college is. Greg may not hold a formal degree but it's obvious he doesn't need one. He's knowledgeable about many things and has exercised his intellectual curiosity to learn and accomplish more than many "highly educated" engineers or technical types I've known over the years. Also ... you just posted (above): "What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know?" The answer to those questions (in my case) are "no" and "yes". I only pursued a degree because I thought I'd need it (it's what everyone told me, anyway) following my time in the Navy. Turns out I would have followed the same career path and would have been able to accomplish whatever I have in my accomplishment bucket without the degree. It certainly helped. But, (and you may find this impossible to understand or believe), the Navy electronic and electrical schools covered the same technical material in a much more comprehensive way when compared to the civilian colleges and universities where I also took courses. In civilian schools I had more problems with "Business Law 101" and "Accounting II". The electrical and electronics were duck soup for me and I usually ended up helping others in the classes get concepts clear in their heads. Back in high school I remember being told, "you don't need to know all the answers ... you just need to know where to look for them". And once again: Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 11:01 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 10:48 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 8:53 AM, Justan Olphart wrote: On 10/13/2015 8:29 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and "engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods. What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know? Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) Andy borrowed wits has that department covered. You aren't a satirist. You're just weird. I guess I need to let Harry loose from the Bozo Bin. Getting to be too much of a pain to respond to his quotes in other people's posts. Harry ... you commented to Greg the following: "You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties." This is an example of your shallow and misguided idea of what college is. Greg may not hold a formal degree but it's obvious he doesn't need one. He's knowledgeable about many things and has exercised his intellectual curiosity to learn and accomplish more than many "highly educated" engineers or technical types I've known over the years. Also ... you just posted (above): "What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know?" The answer to those questions (in my case) are "no" and "yes". I only pursued a degree because I thought I'd need it (it's what everyone told me, anyway) following my time in the Navy. Turns out I would have followed the same career path and would have been able to accomplish whatever I have in my accomplishment bucket without the degree. It certainly helped. But, (and you may find this impossible to understand or believe), the Navy electronic and electrical schools covered the same technical material in a much more comprehensive way when compared to the civilian colleges and universities where I also took courses. In civilian schools I had more problems with "Business Law 101" and "Accounting II". The electrical and electronics were duck soup for me and I usually ended up helping others in the classes get concepts clear in their heads. Back in high school I remember being told, "you don't need to know all the answers ... you just need to know where to look for them". And once again: Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) Nice try but I am afraid you don't have much of a reputation for satire, other than what you borrow from Andy Borowitz. |
We can't do nuttin'...
Justan Olphart wrote:
On 10/13/2015 6:16 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade.. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. There are no known uses for Harry's skills and training. Actually, there is a use, just not needed. He polishes the turds the politicians throw out to the lowly. |
We can't do nuttin'...
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 12:06 AM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Gee, Bilious, I hope the taxpayers of your state didn't subsidize your education. Why was college necessary, anyway? Couldn't you have picked up some workbooks at the library or gotten your education in the military? :) Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. I paid a lot more back in to the state than they ever put out for my education. Maybe if you had actually studied something useful, you would not have had to file bankruptcy twice. Maybe a simple economics 101? |
We can't do nuttin'...
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote: On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze g infrastructure. I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue collar construction jobs. We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about. You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader. Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient, earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age. Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's secondary. General liberal arts is a good example. Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply because they had a pursuit of higher learning. And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough. It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think there is far more use for education than learning a trade. In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same value in liberal arts as you do. Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money, and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit. After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his students? Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas. I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different things and I am not afraid to try anything. I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me. These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much college level information on the internet that the only reason you would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes that it would lead to that job making widgets. If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is free. You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties. You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education. If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up. And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many administrators! "Esoteric facts for self worth..." Hehehe. Gotta love rec.bloats. And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they graduate? Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats. Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path. Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not. Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete. May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster, and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want these days, is for old analog engineers. Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school. The writer's posit is wrong. The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and "engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods. What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some workbooks teach you all you needed to know? Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) You apparently failed the satire part of college. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote:
Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. |
We can't do nuttin'...
StinkyJim farts...
"I don't want people calling me a braggart. :-)" Why...doesn't seem to bother your fellow Florida., Ditzy Dan Kruger. Just ask him about his twin BMWs or his 40+ guns......or how much income tax he has to pay. |
We can't do nuttin'...
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote: Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. I enjoyed college. Except for some ****ty professors, was great. And electives are needed. But to have a four year+ regimen of studies, that lead to no useful skills, is a waste of taxpayer money. Society pays for primary schools, so our youth can be contributing members of society. Not to make them good at Trivial Pursuit. Big problem in certain large cities is the amount of youths who forgo education and decide dealing drugs and robbery is going to be their contribution. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 11:11 AM, True North wrote:
StinkyJim farts... "I don't want people calling me a braggart. :-)" Why...doesn't seem to bother your fellow Florida., Ditzy Dan Kruger. Just ask him about his twin BMWs or his 40+ guns......or how much income tax he has to pay. ??? Are you jealous of ditzy dan kruger? Sure Seems so. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:01:19 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: And once again: Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :) === Harry, you are so full of **** it's unbelievable. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 12:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote: Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. I enjoyed college. Except for some ****ty professors, was great. And electives are needed. But to have a four year+ regimen of studies, that lead to no useful skills, is a waste of taxpayer money. Society pays for primary schools, so our youth can be contributing members of society. Not to make them good at Trivial Pursuit. Big problem in certain large cities is the amount of youths who forgo education and decide dealing drugs and robbery is going to be their contribution. I'm fairly certain you are not in charge of deciding what comprises "useful skills. We also differ on the purpose of education. You and most others here have the trade school concept...you get educated in order to get and hold a job. I think the purpose of education is to instill a desire to learn, and to teach students how to use their minds, and where to go to acquire the facts they need in order to make intelligent decisions. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 3:34 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 12:48 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote: Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. I enjoyed college. Except for some ****ty professors, was great. And electives are needed. But to have a four year+ regimen of studies, that lead to no useful skills, is a waste of taxpayer money. Society pays for primary schools, so our youth can be contributing members of society. Not to make them good at Trivial Pursuit. Big problem in certain large cities is the amount of youths who forgo education and decide dealing drugs and robbery is going to be their contribution. I'm fairly certain you are not in charge of deciding what comprises "useful skills. We also differ on the purpose of education. You and most others here have the trade school concept...you get educated in order to get and hold a job. I think the purpose of education is to instill a desire to learn, and to teach students how to use their minds, and where to go to acquire the facts they need in order to make intelligent decisions. Lovely thoughts but most people like to eat. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 5:57 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 5:48 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 3:34 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 12:48 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote: Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. I enjoyed college. Except for some ****ty professors, was great. And electives are needed. But to have a four year+ regimen of studies, that lead to no useful skills, is a waste of taxpayer money. Society pays for primary schools, so our youth can be contributing members of society. Not to make them good at Trivial Pursuit. Big problem in certain large cities is the amount of youths who forgo education and decide dealing drugs and robbery is going to be their contribution. I'm fairly certain you are not in charge of deciding what comprises "useful skills. We also differ on the purpose of education. You and most others here have the trade school concept...you get educated in order to get and hold a job. I think the purpose of education is to instill a desire to learn, and to teach students how to use their minds, and where to go to acquire the facts they need in order to make intelligent decisions. Lovely thoughts but most people like to eat. Oh? And somehow instilling a desire to learn, learning how to use your mind, and learning how to acquire facts interferes with earning a living so you can eat? How interesting. Seems to have been true in your case. |
We can't do nuttin'...
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We can't do nuttin'...
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 12:48 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote: Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. I enjoyed college. Except for some ****ty professors, was great. And electives are needed. But to have a four year+ regimen of studies, that lead to no useful skills, is a waste of taxpayer money. Society pays for primary schools, so our youth can be contributing members of society. Not to make them good at Trivial Pursuit. Big problem in certain large cities is the amount of youths who forgo education and decide dealing drugs and robbery is going to be their contribution. I'm fairly certain you are not in charge of deciding what comprises "useful skills. We also differ on the purpose of education. You and most others here have the trade school concept...you get educated in order to get and hold a job. I think the purpose of education is to instill a desire to learn, and to teach students how to use their minds, and where to go to acquire the facts they need in order to make intelligent decisions. Learn how to get info and gain info on how to contribute to society. Able to eat and live without the rest of society giving you a handout. Not how to be an erudite dispenser of Lattes and fries. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 5:48 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 3:34 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 12:48 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote: Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. I enjoyed college. Except for some ****ty professors, was great. And electives are needed. But to have a four year+ regimen of studies, that lead to no useful skills, is a waste of taxpayer money. Society pays for primary schools, so our youth can be contributing members of society. Not to make them good at Trivial Pursuit. Big problem in certain large cities is the amount of youths who forgo education and decide dealing drugs and robbery is going to be their contribution. I'm fairly certain you are not in charge of deciding what comprises "useful skills. We also differ on the purpose of education. You and most others here have the trade school concept...you get educated in order to get and hold a job. I think the purpose of education is to instill a desire to learn, and to teach students how to use their minds, and where to go to acquire the facts they need in order to make intelligent decisions. Lovely thoughts but most people like to eat. Oh? And somehow instilling a desire to learn, learning how to use your mind, and learning how to acquire facts interferes with earning a living so you can eat? How interesting. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 6:49 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... Harry ... you commented to Greg the following: "You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties." Never the twain shall meet. They are both intolerant in their own ways. Greg will never understand Dostoyevsky, and Harry will never understand Ayn Rand. The big difference between them is their exposure to both. And so it goes. I read two of Ms. Rand's novels when I was in the 7th grade. I understand her points and I realized she was just a bloody awful writer and her prose was turgid, and that would be a compliment. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/2015 6:57 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 5:48 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 3:34 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 12:48 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote: Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. I enjoyed college. Except for some ****ty professors, was great. And electives are needed. But to have a four year+ regimen of studies, that lead to no useful skills, is a waste of taxpayer money. Society pays for primary schools, so our youth can be contributing members of society. Not to make them good at Trivial Pursuit. Big problem in certain large cities is the amount of youths who forgo education and decide dealing drugs and robbery is going to be their contribution. I'm fairly certain you are not in charge of deciding what comprises "useful skills. We also differ on the purpose of education. You and most others here have the trade school concept...you get educated in order to get and hold a job. I think the purpose of education is to instill a desire to learn, and to teach students how to use their minds, and where to go to acquire the facts they need in order to make intelligent decisions. Lovely thoughts but most people like to eat. Oh? And somehow instilling a desire to learn, learning how to use your mind, and learning how to acquire facts interferes with earning a living so you can eat? Only if you make a career of it. I don't understand your distinction of "desire to learn", "using your mind" and "learning how to acquire facts". Everyone I know were exposed to those objectives and most accomplished them (maybe at varying degrees) while attending school in anticipation of pursuing a specific career choice ... or "trade" ... as you like to put it. There's nothing wrong with education for the sake of learning and expanding one's ideas, understandings, views and maybe even degrees of tolerance. I've done it, some very recently. I signed up for some courses on a subject that interests me and has nothing to do with my previous working career. I just wanted to understand it better. That said however, most young people are attending college or universities to obtain the fundamental qualification to pursue a career choice. |
We can't do nuttin'...
On 10/13/15 7:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 6:57 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 5:48 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/13/2015 3:34 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 12:48 PM, Califbill wrote: Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/13/15 11:08 AM, Califbill wrote: Never said college and education should not be subsidized. I stated that for education for self enjoyment should not be. Bilious, it's not my problem if you didn't enjoy your college courses. I enjoyed many, if not all, of mine. Oh, wait...was that allowed? Perhaps you are referring to electives...electives were required, and I did take a couple that had only peripheral connections to my majors, and I did enjoy them. Education for self-enjoyment. Now there is a concept. Are you referring to guitar lessons? Making rubber molds for dildos? I managed to work in some courses in art history, music, and archeology. Perhaps you should have worked in some courses in English as she is written. I enjoyed college. Except for some ****ty professors, was great. And electives are needed. But to have a four year+ regimen of studies, that lead to no useful skills, is a waste of taxpayer money. Society pays for primary schools, so our youth can be contributing members of society. Not to make them good at Trivial Pursuit. Big problem in certain large cities is the amount of youths who forgo education and decide dealing drugs and robbery is going to be their contribution. I'm fairly certain you are not in charge of deciding what comprises "useful skills. We also differ on the purpose of education. You and most others here have the trade school concept...you get educated in order to get and hold a job. I think the purpose of education is to instill a desire to learn, and to teach students how to use their minds, and where to go to acquire the facts they need in order to make intelligent decisions. Lovely thoughts but most people like to eat. Oh? And somehow instilling a desire to learn, learning how to use your mind, and learning how to acquire facts interferes with earning a living so you can eat? Only if you make a career of it. I don't know any "professional" students. |
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