|
Wayne, prop guy?
On 9/6/2015 11:34 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 9/6/2015 12:23 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 9/6/2015 10:36 AM, Justan Olphart wrote: On 9/6/2015 11:05 AM, John H. wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 10:53:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 07:36:11 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 15:22:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 13:06:28 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 12:02:18 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 11:38:29 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 10:01:50 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 09:35:34 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 08:39:31 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 08:02:45 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 23:20:10 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 11:29:18 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 08:36:24 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: It also looks like it would be a good short cut on the way north to Newfoundland and Labrador. Sounds "cold" ;-) === Yah but... ...what I'd really like to do is cross to Europe by way of Greenland, Iceland and Scotland. Crazy? Of course, and it will probably never happen. A few weeks in Labrador might cure me with any luck, and I've always wanted to cruise Nova Scotia. When you grow up in the lake effect snow belt of upstate NY the ice never totally leaves your blood stream. :-) I read a while back about a group crossing made by owners of some brand of boat that I can't remember right now (Nordic Tug?). Perhaps there are brand or club group crossings that you could latch onto? === You're probably thinking about the Nordhavn Trans Atlantic Rally in 2004. http://www.nordhavn.com/rally/voyage/welcome.htm I followed that event closely and have corresponded with several of the participants. We met one of them last summer up in the Chesapeake and had dinner with them at Solomons. They say it will probably never happen again, and if it does, it will start without them. That rally took the southern route: Lauderdale to Bermuda, Bermuda to the Azores, and Azores to Gibralter. They encountered some really nasty head seas on the last leg to Gibralter and there were a number of boats that developed mechanical problems. Nordhavn's are quite a different boat than ours. They have a very long fuel range, long enough to cross oceans without refueling. We do not. On the other hand we have twin engines, more speed, and a lot of other redundancy so there are offsetting factors to an extent. The northern route that I'm thinking about has much shorter legs, the longest being about 3 or 4 days, and well within our fuel range. The advantage there is that you can get fairly reliable weather information over 3 or 4 days. The disadvantage is that the water is cold, there are ice hazzards, fog, and frequent weather changes. Yup, that's the one I was thinking of. Didn't know what route they took. If I were in your shoes, I'd sure be looking for some company along the way. It sounds like it would be a great adventure. Actually, the year beating around Europe is what I found really appealing. You mentioned shipping the boat back. Could you ship it to Rotterdam? Or would it be more cost effective to rent a boat in Europe to do some cruising? Sounds like a great idea. === It's entirely possible to ship the boat both ways and a fair number of people do that. One of our local boats from this area has been in the Med all summer, mostly in southern Spain and offshore islands. They have professional crew and a large operating budget however. It costs about $40K each way but saves a lot of fuel plus wear and tear on the boat. There's something about making the crossing via Labrador, Greenland and Iceland that appeals to my sense of adventure however. Cruising around the Med sounds like fun. Just be careful on the South and East sides. If you cruised around all winter, you could hit the window on the way back ... as long as the trip over was fun. I'd want to fit in a trip to Rotterdam and then down the Rhein for a ways...maybe to Basel. Yup Europe by boat does sound like a very interesting trip. Sort of a Viking cruise where you get to decide where you go and how long you stay. It does beg the question, how would the electrical shore tie work at 220v 50HZ. You might need to buy a big assed transformer. I imagine most of the motors would tolerate the 50 hz but you need to read the nameplate rating. That "transformer" might need to be a VFD. (lighter but more expensive) === All of my battery chargers are rated for 50/60 so that is not a problem. What is an issue is 220 V non-center tapped. For that you need an isolation transformer rated at 12 KVA/50 Hz. You can pick them up on EBAY for a half reasonable price but you need to build a weather proof enclosure and install some Euro style inlet connectors. The isolation transformer also solves the GFI tripping issue which is common on some Euro docks. Could you not get by with a small generator? === Sure but most marinas will not allow you to run a generator for any length of time if shore power is available. We have two, a 20KW and a 15KW, both diesels of course. The problem is adapting Euro style shore power so that you don't need to run the generators. European power is typically 220 volt, 50 Hz, with no neutral connection. Most US boats are set up just like your house with two 120 volt legs that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other so that they add up to 220 volts for larger appliances. Most of our stuff will run on 50 HZ power but you need an center tapped isolation transformer to create the two 120 volt legs from a single 220. Maybe Luddite would loan you his small Honda. Quiet and will power a refrigerator and dozens of LED's. -- Ban idiots, not guns! LEDs are great. I saved a bundle by converting my house lighting to LED. My camper is all DC LED too. Been slowly doing the same thing in our house. As the incandescent or CFL bulbs go out I've been replacing them with LED. Still have a bunch to go though. Don't throw the old bulbs away unless you plan to advertise that you have done the conversion. Why is that? I have a storage locker full of regular bulbs and many CFL's that I am not going to use. I go get an appropriate LED instead. In some places I like using the dimmable "Daylight" color temperature. Great in the garages, etc. They are harder to find though. Most are the cooler "soft white". |
Wayne, prop guy?
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 11:31:26 -0400, Justan Olphart
wrote: On 9/6/2015 11:57 AM, wrote: 35kva is 145a @ 240v center tapped So 200A service is 200A at 220/240V? Yup 48kva |
Wayne, prop guy?
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 12:23:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: LEDs are great. I saved a bundle by converting my house lighting to LED. My camper is all DC LED too. Been slowly doing the same thing in our house. As the incandescent or CFL bulbs go out I've been replacing them with LED. Still have a bunch to go though. I don't have enough lamps that are not on dimmers to justify changing. Most of the ones that aren't are CFLs now. When they burn out I may get some LEDS |
Wayne, prop guy?
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 12:53:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Why is that? I have a storage locker full of regular bulbs and many CFL's that I am not going to use. I go get an appropriate LED instead. In some places I like using the dimmable "Daylight" color temperature. Great in the garages, etc. They are harder to find though. Most are the cooler "soft white". The problem with dimming LEDs and even CFL is they do not change color and the color shift is the biggest part of the ambience of dimming them. My wife is having that problem at work too. They have about 50 PAR38s in the dining room ant at dinner time they want bright white. After dinner they want that orange glow of a dimmed incandescent for dancing.. |
Wayne, prop guy?
|
Wayne, prop guy?
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:44:21 -0400, Justan Olphart
wrote: 300A? That's probably bigger than your house has. === Where did you come up with 300 amps? Most shore power legs in the US are 50 amps on each side of neutral. In euro marinas you typically get a single or double 220 leg rated at 30 to 50 amps. Your generators === You can only use one generator at a time since they are wired into an A/B selector switch, and we run them very conservatively, no where near full power. The real issue is not running them in a marina however. You become unpopular with the neighbors very quickly. We've had to do it a few times for various reasons and unless power to the whole marina has failed, we usually get a visit from the dockmaster asking us to cease and desist. It's unneighborly. |
Wayne, prop guy?
|
Wayne, prop guy?
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 9/6/2015 10:36 AM, Justan Olphart wrote: On 9/6/2015 11:05 AM, John H. wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 10:53:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 07:36:11 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 15:22:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 13:06:28 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 12:02:18 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 11:38:29 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 10:01:50 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 09:35:34 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 08:39:31 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 08:02:45 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 23:20:10 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 11:29:18 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 08:36:24 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: It also looks like it would be a good short cut on the way north to Newfoundland and Labrador. Sounds "cold" ;-) === Yah but... ...what I'd really like to do is cross to Europe by way of Greenland, Iceland and Scotland. Crazy? Of course, and it will probably never happen. A few weeks in Labrador might cure me with any luck, and I've always wanted to cruise Nova Scotia. When you grow up in the lake effect snow belt of upstate NY the ice never totally leaves your blood stream. :-) I read a while back about a group crossing made by owners of some brand of boat that I can't remember right now (Nordic Tug?). Perhaps there are brand or club group crossings that you could latch onto? === You're probably thinking about the Nordhavn Trans Atlantic Rally in 2004. http://www.nordhavn.com/rally/voyage/welcome.htm I followed that event closely and have corresponded with several of the participants. We met one of them last summer up in the Chesapeake and had dinner with them at Solomons. They say it will probably never happen again, and if it does, it will start without them. That rally took the southern route: Lauderdale to Bermuda, Bermuda to the Azores, and Azores to Gibralter. They encountered some really nasty head seas on the last leg to Gibralter and there were a number of boats that developed mechanical problems. Nordhavn's are quite a different boat than ours. They have a very long fuel range, long enough to cross oceans without refueling. We do not. On the other hand we have twin engines, more speed, and a lot of other redundancy so there are offsetting factors to an extent. The northern route that I'm thinking about has much shorter legs, the longest being about 3 or 4 days, and well within our fuel range. The advantage there is that you can get fairly reliable weather information over 3 or 4 days. The disadvantage is that the water is cold, there are ice hazzards, fog, and frequent weather changes. Yup, that's the one I was thinking of. Didn't know what route they took. If I were in your shoes, I'd sure be looking for some company along the way. It sounds like it would be a great adventure. Actually, the year beating around Europe is what I found really appealing. You mentioned shipping the boat back. Could you ship it to Rotterdam? Or would it be more cost effective to rent a boat in Europe to do some cruising? Sounds like a great idea. === It's entirely possible to ship the boat both ways and a fair number of people do that. One of our local boats from this area has been in the Med all summer, mostly in southern Spain and offshore islands. They have professional crew and a large operating budget however. It costs about $40K each way but saves a lot of fuel plus wear and tear on the boat. There's something about making the crossing via Labrador, Greenland and Iceland that appeals to my sense of adventure however. Cruising around the Med sounds like fun. Just be careful on the South and East sides. If you cruised around all winter, you could hit the window on the way back ... as long as the trip over was fun. I'd want to fit in a trip to Rotterdam and then down the Rhein for a ways...maybe to Basel. Yup Europe by boat does sound like a very interesting trip. Sort of a Viking cruise where you get to decide where you go and how long you stay. It does beg the question, how would the electrical shore tie work at 220v 50HZ. You might need to buy a big assed transformer. I imagine most of the motors would tolerate the 50 hz but you need to read the nameplate rating. That "transformer" might need to be a VFD. (lighter but more expensive) === All of my battery chargers are rated for 50/60 so that is not a problem. What is an issue is 220 V non-center tapped. For that you need an isolation transformer rated at 12 KVA/50 Hz. You can pick them up on EBAY for a half reasonable price but you need to build a weather proof enclosure and install some Euro style inlet connectors. The isolation transformer also solves the GFI tripping issue which is common on some Euro docks. Could you not get by with a small generator? === Sure but most marinas will not allow you to run a generator for any length of time if shore power is available. We have two, a 20KW and a 15KW, both diesels of course. The problem is adapting Euro style shore power so that you don't need to run the generators. European power is typically 220 volt, 50 Hz, with no neutral connection. Most US boats are set up just like your house with two 120 volt legs that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other so that they add up to 220 volts for larger appliances. Most of our stuff will run on 50 HZ power but you need an center tapped isolation transformer to create the two 120 volt legs from a single 220. Maybe Luddite would loan you his small Honda. Quiet and will power a refrigerator and dozens of LED's. -- Ban idiots, not guns! LEDs are great. I saved a bundle by converting my house lighting to LED. My camper is all DC LED too. Been slowly doing the same thing in our house. As the incandescent or CFL bulbs go out I've been replacing them with LED. Still have a bunch to go though. Problem I ran into on the family room fans. LED do not draw enough current to work the remote light control. Just do not turn on unless I add at least one incandescent bulb. |
Wayne, prop guy?
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:36:15 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 9/6/2015 11:05 AM, John H. wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 10:53:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 07:36:11 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 15:22:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 13:06:28 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 12:02:18 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 11:38:29 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 10:01:50 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 09:35:34 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 08:39:31 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 08:02:45 -0400, John H. wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 23:20:10 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 11:29:18 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 08:36:24 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: It also looks like it would be a good short cut on the way north to Newfoundland and Labrador. Sounds "cold" ;-) === Yah but... ...what I'd really like to do is cross to Europe by way of Greenland, Iceland and Scotland. Crazy? Of course, and it will probably never happen. A few weeks in Labrador might cure me with any luck, and I've always wanted to cruise Nova Scotia. When you grow up in the lake effect snow belt of upstate NY the ice never totally leaves your blood stream. :-) I read a while back about a group crossing made by owners of some brand of boat that I can't remember right now (Nordic Tug?). Perhaps there are brand or club group crossings that you could latch onto? === You're probably thinking about the Nordhavn Trans Atlantic Rally in 2004. http://www.nordhavn.com/rally/voyage/welcome.htm I followed that event closely and have corresponded with several of the participants. We met one of them last summer up in the Chesapeake and had dinner with them at Solomons. They say it will probably never happen again, and if it does, it will start without them. That rally took the southern route: Lauderdale to Bermuda, Bermuda to the Azores, and Azores to Gibralter. They encountered some really nasty head seas on the last leg to Gibralter and there were a number of boats that developed mechanical problems. Nordhavn's are quite a different boat than ours. They have a very long fuel range, long enough to cross oceans without refueling. We do not. On the other hand we have twin engines, more speed, and a lot of other redundancy so there are offsetting factors to an extent. The northern route that I'm thinking about has much shorter legs, the longest being about 3 or 4 days, and well within our fuel range. The advantage there is that you can get fairly reliable weather information over 3 or 4 days. The disadvantage is that the water is cold, there are ice hazzards, fog, and frequent weather changes. Yup, that's the one I was thinking of. Didn't know what route they took. If I were in your shoes, I'd sure be looking for some company along the way. It sounds like it would be a great adventure. Actually, the year beating around Europe is what I found really appealing. You mentioned shipping the boat back. Could you ship it to Rotterdam? Or would it be more cost effective to rent a boat in Europe to do some cruising? Sounds like a great idea. === It's entirely possible to ship the boat both ways and a fair number of people do that. One of our local boats from this area has been in the Med all summer, mostly in southern Spain and offshore islands. They have professional crew and a large operating budget however. It costs about $40K each way but saves a lot of fuel plus wear and tear on the boat. There's something about making the crossing via Labrador, Greenland and Iceland that appeals to my sense of adventure however. Cruising around the Med sounds like fun. Just be careful on the South and East sides. If you cruised around all winter, you could hit the window on the way back ... as long as the trip over was fun. I'd want to fit in a trip to Rotterdam and then down the Rhein for a ways...maybe to Basel. Yup Europe by boat does sound like a very interesting trip. Sort of a Viking cruise where you get to decide where you go and how long you stay. It does beg the question, how would the electrical shore tie work at 220v 50HZ. You might need to buy a big assed transformer. I imagine most of the motors would tolerate the 50 hz but you need to read the nameplate rating. That "transformer" might need to be a VFD. (lighter but more expensive) === All of my battery chargers are rated for 50/60 so that is not a problem. What is an issue is 220 V non-center tapped. For that you need an isolation transformer rated at 12 KVA/50 Hz. You can pick them up on EBAY for a half reasonable price but you need to build a weather proof enclosure and install some Euro style inlet connectors. The isolation transformer also solves the GFI tripping issue which is common on some Euro docks. Could you not get by with a small generator? === Sure but most marinas will not allow you to run a generator for any length of time if shore power is available. We have two, a 20KW and a 15KW, both diesels of course. The problem is adapting Euro style shore power so that you don't need to run the generators. European power is typically 220 volt, 50 Hz, with no neutral connection. Most US boats are set up just like your house with two 120 volt legs that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other so that they add up to 220 volts for larger appliances. Most of our stuff will run on 50 HZ power but you need an center tapped isolation transformer to create the two 120 volt legs from a single 220. Maybe Luddite would loan you his small Honda. Quiet and will power a refrigerator and dozens of LED's. -- Ban idiots, not guns! LEDs are great. I saved a bundle by converting my house lighting to LED. My camper is all DC LED too. Me too. I love 'em. -- Ban idiots, not guns! |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:09 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com