On 7/27/15 7:52 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/27/2015 7:40 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 7:28 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/27/2015 6:38 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 6:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/27/2015 5:44 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 5:42 PM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze

"BOSTON -- After a tortuous seven-month public process, the United
States
Olympic Committee on Monday acknowledged that it had failed to win
over
the people of Boston to host the 2024 Summer Games and it officially
pulled the plug on its bid to put forth Boston as America's host
city."


Now Toronto is starting to make noises about competing to host the
2024 Olympics while patting themselves on the back for the just
completed Panamericana games.
Way back a very vocal minority tried to get the PanAm games for
Halifax.
The Feds only offered 700 million in assistance and the cost
estimate
was rising to 2 billion. Thank God saner heads prevailed.


I hope they pass. The games are money-losers. Cities, of course,
don't
seem to mind being raped by the owners of professional sports teams
into
building stadiums, which are also money-losers for the cities. Let
the
billionaire owners of major sports teams pay for the building of
their
own damned stadiums.


Good grief, it must be tough for you to live in the USA. I can't
recall
anything of our culture, our economics, welfare system or our
government
that you like or approve of.

Most of the losses associated with hosting Olympic games is the
infrastructure, stadiums, etc., that are built and used once.
Maybe the summer Olympics should be permanently located in Athens,
Greece, home of the original, ancient games. The Greek economy could
use the boost and the stadiums can be re-used.


Why should cities or states pay for sports infrastructure that is built
and used once, and Olympic games that end up costing the cities more
than they make? And why should cities and states subsidize sports teams
owned by billionaires, especially when our infrastructure is crumbling,
benefits for the poor are being cut, school programs are being shut
down, clinics are being closed, et cetera?


Because the world doesn't revolve around Harry Krause, his interests and
his cynical views of our society.

I agree about the Olympic game venues. Waste of money for a one-time
event. However sports stadiums bring more to the local economy than just
the price of a football or baseball game ticket. If you don't believe
that, consider the times major league teams even think of
moving to a location or state out of the local area. Everything
possible is done to keep them where they are.

A few years back the New England Patriots started making noises about
moving to Connecticut or somewhere due to the archaic and obsolete
stadium in Foxboro. Some of the die hard Patriots fans were beside
themselves with grief.

But, a deal was reached and "Patriot Place" came to be. Don't know if
you have ever been there but it really is fabulous. In addition to the
football stadium (which also hosts pro soccer games, musical concerts
and other events), there are also 1.3 million square feet of adjoining
shops, restaurants, bars and other entertainment venues for the public
to enjoy. The complex employs thousands of locals, a positive influence
on the local economy.

Here's a link to more info about Patriot Place if you are interested:

http://www.boston-discovery-guide.com/patriot-place.html


What is the *plus* contribution to the local economy? Not what the
boosters claim, but the actual $$$ contribution over the cost of
building it, bonding it, operating it, paying off the team owners?


I don't know the current revenues, but as of two years ago (before the
entire venue was fully leased), the revenues for the adjoining shops,
stores, restaurants, etc. were 50 percent higher than the projections
made back in 2007/2008 when the complex was first proposed. This is
despite the downturn in the economy and ... those revenues do *not*
include those generated by Gillette Stadium, the Patriots, the
Revolution pro soccer team or any of the concerts and other events held
there.

Plus, the employment of thousands of locals, which also adds to tax
revenues rather than welfare payments.



I understand the Foxborough stadium was privately financed, but...

https://www.stlouisfed.org/Publicati...rts-Facilities

On 7/27/2015 6:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/27/2015 5:44 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 5:42 PM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze

"BOSTON -- After a tortuous seven-month public process, the United
States
Olympic Committee on Monday acknowledged that it had failed to win over
the people of Boston to host the 2024 Summer Games and it officially
pulled the plug on its bid to put forth Boston as America's host city."


Now Toronto is starting to make noises about competing to host the
2024 Olympics while patting themselves on the back for the just
completed Panamericana games.
Way back a very vocal minority tried to get the PanAm games for Halifax.
The Feds only offered 700 million in assistance and the cost estimate
was rising to 2 billion. Thank God saner heads prevailed.


I hope they pass. The games are money-losers. Cities, of course, don't
seem to mind being raped by the owners of professional sports teams into
building stadiums, which are also money-losers for the cities. Let the
billionaire owners of major sports teams pay for the building of their
own damned stadiums.


Good grief, it must be tough for you to live in the USA. I can't recall
anything of our culture, our economics, welfare system or our government
that you like or approve of.

Most of the losses associated with hosting Olympic games is the
infrastructure, stadiums, etc., that are built and used once.
Maybe the summer Olympics should be permanently located in Athens,
Greece, home of the original, ancient games. The Greek economy could
use the boost and the stadiums can be re-used.

Athens already has the ruins of a modern Olympic games. It sure is an
eyesore. I wonder if it could be rehabbed?

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On 7/27/2015 8:02 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 7:52 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/27/2015 7:40 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 7:28 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/27/2015 6:38 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 6:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/27/2015 5:44 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 5:42 PM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze

"BOSTON -- After a tortuous seven-month public process, the United
States
Olympic Committee on Monday acknowledged that it had failed to win
over
the people of Boston to host the 2024 Summer Games and it
officially
pulled the plug on its bid to put forth Boston as America's host
city."


Now Toronto is starting to make noises about competing to host the
2024 Olympics while patting themselves on the back for the just
completed Panamericana games.
Way back a very vocal minority tried to get the PanAm games for
Halifax.
The Feds only offered 700 million in assistance and the cost
estimate
was rising to 2 billion. Thank God saner heads prevailed.


I hope they pass. The games are money-losers. Cities, of course,
don't
seem to mind being raped by the owners of professional sports teams
into
building stadiums, which are also money-losers for the cities. Let
the
billionaire owners of major sports teams pay for the building of
their
own damned stadiums.


Good grief, it must be tough for you to live in the USA. I can't
recall
anything of our culture, our economics, welfare system or our
government
that you like or approve of.

Most of the losses associated with hosting Olympic games is the
infrastructure, stadiums, etc., that are built and used once.
Maybe the summer Olympics should be permanently located in Athens,
Greece, home of the original, ancient games. The Greek economy could
use the boost and the stadiums can be re-used.


Why should cities or states pay for sports infrastructure that is
built
and used once, and Olympic games that end up costing the cities more
than they make? And why should cities and states subsidize sports
teams
owned by billionaires, especially when our infrastructure is
crumbling,
benefits for the poor are being cut, school programs are being shut
down, clinics are being closed, et cetera?


Because the world doesn't revolve around Harry Krause, his interests
and
his cynical views of our society.

I agree about the Olympic game venues. Waste of money for a one-time
event. However sports stadiums bring more to the local economy than
just
the price of a football or baseball game ticket. If you don't believe
that, consider the times major league teams even think of
moving to a location or state out of the local area. Everything
possible is done to keep them where they are.

A few years back the New England Patriots started making noises about
moving to Connecticut or somewhere due to the archaic and obsolete
stadium in Foxboro. Some of the die hard Patriots fans were beside
themselves with grief.

But, a deal was reached and "Patriot Place" came to be. Don't know if
you have ever been there but it really is fabulous. In addition to the
football stadium (which also hosts pro soccer games, musical concerts
and other events), there are also 1.3 million square feet of adjoining
shops, restaurants, bars and other entertainment venues for the public
to enjoy. The complex employs thousands of locals, a positive
influence
on the local economy.

Here's a link to more info about Patriot Place if you are interested:

http://www.boston-discovery-guide.com/patriot-place.html


What is the *plus* contribution to the local economy? Not what the
boosters claim, but the actual $$$ contribution over the cost of
building it, bonding it, operating it, paying off the team owners?


I don't know the current revenues, but as of two years ago (before the
entire venue was fully leased), the revenues for the adjoining shops,
stores, restaurants, etc. were 50 percent higher than the projections
made back in 2007/2008 when the complex was first proposed. This is
despite the downturn in the economy and ... those revenues do *not*
include those generated by Gillette Stadium, the Patriots, the
Revolution pro soccer team or any of the concerts and other events held
there.

Plus, the employment of thousands of locals, which also adds to tax
revenues rather than welfare payments.



I understand the Foxborough stadium was privately financed, but...

https://www.stlouisfed.org/Publicati...rts-Facilities



Patriot Place was financed mostly by Bob Kraft but the town owns the
land the stadium and surrounding venues are located on. In the deal
made to keep the Patriots in Foxboro, the Patriots (and other ticket
selling events) pay the town a cut of ticket sale revenues instead of
taxes. This has generated another $3M in yearly revenues to the town
(in addition to taxes paid by the other venues). The town and state
contributed in infrastructure improvements to handle the increased
traffic flow. Foxboro ( actually "Foxborough") is a small town with a
population of about 17,000 ... just about the same as the small town I
live in. The tax revenues from the shops, restaurants, bars, hotel,
that surround the stadium contribute about $3M yearly to the town's
coffers which is significant for a small town. Again, that does *not*
include revenues derived from the ticket sales for which the town also
gets a "cut" and adds another $3M (approx).

On 7/27/2015 8:30 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 19:28:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 7/27/2015 6:38 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 6:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/27/2015 5:44 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/27/15 5:42 PM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze

"BOSTON -- After a tortuous seven-month public process, the United
States
Olympic Committee on Monday acknowledged that it had failed to win over
the people of Boston to host the 2024 Summer Games and it officially
pulled the plug on its bid to put forth Boston as America's host city."


Now Toronto is starting to make noises about competing to host the
2024 Olympics while patting themselves on the back for the just
completed Panamericana games.
Way back a very vocal minority tried to get the PanAm games for
Halifax.
The Feds only offered 700 million in assistance and the cost estimate
was rising to 2 billion. Thank God saner heads prevailed.


I hope they pass. The games are money-losers. Cities, of course, don't
seem to mind being raped by the owners of professional sports teams into
building stadiums, which are also money-losers for the cities. Let the
billionaire owners of major sports teams pay for the building of their
own damned stadiums.


Good grief, it must be tough for you to live in the USA. I can't recall
anything of our culture, our economics, welfare system or our government
that you like or approve of.

Most of the losses associated with hosting Olympic games is the
infrastructure, stadiums, etc., that are built and used once.
Maybe the summer Olympics should be permanently located in Athens,
Greece, home of the original, ancient games. The Greek economy could
use the boost and the stadiums can be re-used.


Why should cities or states pay for sports infrastructure that is built
and used once, and Olympic games that end up costing the cities more
than they make? And why should cities and states subsidize sports teams
owned by billionaires, especially when our infrastructure is crumbling,
benefits for the poor are being cut, school programs are being shut
down, clinics are being closed, et cetera?


Because the world doesn't revolve around Harry Krause, his interests and
his cynical views of our society.

I agree about the Olympic game venues. Waste of money for a one-time
event. However sports stadiums bring more to the local economy than just
the price of a football or baseball game ticket. If you don't believe
that, consider the times major league teams even think of
moving to a location or state out of the local area. Everything
possible is done to keep them where they are.

A few years back the New England Patriots started making noises about
moving to Connecticut or somewhere due to the archaic and obsolete
stadium in Foxboro. Some of the die hard Patriots fans were beside
themselves with grief.

But, a deal was reached and "Patriot Place" came to be. Don't know if
you have ever been there but it really is fabulous. In addition to the
football stadium (which also hosts pro soccer games, musical concerts
and other events), there are also 1.3 million square feet of adjoining
shops, restaurants, bars and other entertainment venues for the public
to enjoy. The complex employs thousands of locals, a positive influence
on the local economy.

Here's a link to more info about Patriot Place if you are interested:

http://www.boston-discovery-guide.com/patriot-place.html


I doubt these ever actually show any profit at all.

We have an excellent example here in Ft Myers. Your Red Sox sweet
talked our government into building a spring training facility,
promising thousands of new jobs. We built it and when we got a look at
the jobs, they turned out to be hot dog vendors, cleaners and ticket
takers, all part time and all during "season" when we have plenty of
jobs anyway. The big money workers came down on the bus and took most
of their money back to Boston with them when they left.
Several years later they decided that stadium was not nice enough for
them and blackmailed us into building them another one.
Now we have a totally unused stadium they can't figure out what to do
with and a new one that is also bleeding us dry.
The Twins? Yup, they did that to us too.



Greg, you are wrong about Patriot Place. Since opening, it continues to
set records for ticket sales and total revenues. Every Patriot game is a
sell-out. It has been a spectacular success for Kraft, for the town of
Foxboro for the local communities at large in terms of jobs (over 3,000)
and for the sports fans and concert goers.

When the town hired consultant did a study of the proposed plans, he
underestimated by 50 percent the revenues that would generated. He also
way over-estimated the additional law enforcement costs associated with
the overall venue. Foxboro's law enforcement costs have actually decreased.

You can't compare something like Patriot Place to a training camp
in Florida, used for a couple of months by the Red Sox during the
pre-season.