Why the silence from JohnH?
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 8:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:57:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?


Slow learners, huh?


No just that throttling I was talking about.

A lot of guys will just go get a "helper" job for a contractor and be
ready to sit for the journeyman exam in a year or two if they are
willing to do some book work at night.

We had a little study group on the old Prodigy BBs and several of us
got our inspector certifications for free. Fortunately one of the guys
was Joe Tedesco, a road warrior for IAEI and he pitched us his whole
road show, along with practice questions and assignments. All of us
smoked the IAEI tests and I also knocked out the ICBO and SBCCI
(residential, commercial and plan review)
I was standing in the parking lot in 45 minutes on the 3 hour
residential SBCCI test (100 questions) but it was the 3d time I had
taken that same basic test in less than a year. ;-)

Other guys got their contractors licenses or became inspectors, two
did both.

Old Joe was a "Bastin" guy from up in your neck of the woods.


None of that has anything to do with being able to weld the piping for a
pharma manufacturing facility, as just one example.

Bull****. Our local community college has a welding technology program.
Come off of a 2 year program, certified welder. My brother could weld
already when he went in the SeaBees. They sent him to a 3 week school at I
think Lincoln Welders factory. Came out Nuclear certified. Was one of the
Welders that built the reactor in the Antarctic back in the 60's. Was just
up on Vancouver Island. They have trades courses in high school. They
build what are called small houses. 800-1200 ft. Sq. the houses are sold
at the end of the year. Are able to be moved. Pass code. Bring back
trades in middle and high school. For the 80% who should not or do not
want college.

Why the silence from JohnH?
 

On 7/23/2015 8:35 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 8:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:57:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?


Slow learners, huh?


No just that throttling I was talking about.

A lot of guys will just go get a "helper" job for a contractor and be
ready to sit for the journeyman exam in a year or two if they are
willing to do some book work at night.

We had a little study group on the old Prodigy BBs and several of us
got our inspector certifications for free. Fortunately one of the guys
was Joe Tedesco, a road warrior for IAEI and he pitched us his whole
road show, along with practice questions and assignments. All of us
smoked the IAEI tests and I also knocked out the ICBO and SBCCI
(residential, commercial and plan review)
I was standing in the parking lot in 45 minutes on the 3 hour
residential SBCCI test (100 questions) but it was the 3d time I had
taken that same basic test in less than a year. ;-)

Other guys got their contractors licenses or became inspectors, two
did both.

Old Joe was a "Bastin" guy from up in your neck of the woods.


None of that has anything to do with being able to weld the piping for a
pharma manufacturing facility, as just one example.

Bull****. Our local community college has a welding technology program.
Come off of a 2 year program, certified welder. My brother could weld
already when he went in the SeaBees. They sent him to a 3 week school at I
think Lincoln Welders factory. Came out Nuclear certified. Was one of the
Welders that built the reactor in the Antarctic back in the 60's. Was just
up on Vancouver Island. They have trades courses in high school. They
build what are called small houses. 800-1200 ft. Sq. the houses are sold
at the end of the year. Are able to be moved. Pass code. Bring back
trades in middle and high school. For the 80% who should not or do not
want college.



Sometimes Harry seems to forget (or ignore) the fact that the vast
majority of tradespeople including certified welders, licensed
electricians, carpenters and plumbers are *not* union or union trained.

My son-in-law is a licensed electrician who started his own business.
He's currently attending night school (again) to get his master
electrician certification and license. The biggest advantage the master
license offers is the number of people he can hire to work for his business.

He can currently have a limited number of people working for him (forget
how many). I asked him recently how he gets extra help when he's busy
and needs it. There are many other licensed electricians that
he has met over the time he has had the business and most often one or
more of them are available to help. I asked him if he ever hires union
electricians from an pool of available people. He has, but doesn't like
to unless he can't find anyone else. I asked "Why?"

He said that the union guys don't like to do a wide range of work and
complain if they have to do something that they normally don't do.

My son-in-law is a straight shooter. He doesn't make **** up.

Why the silence from JohnH?
 

wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:15:57 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 7/23/15 6:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/23/2015 6:47 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 5:47 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:19:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 7/23/15 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:54:31 -0400, Justan Olphat
wrote:

On 7/23/2015 3:29 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:36:31 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:


If you set up a building trades table at career day, you would be a
pretty lonely guy.

That must be why there is a waiting list in most of the skilled
trades
nationwide to get into union-contractor apprenticeship programs.


Slackers all, looking for handouts.

Union apprenticeship programs are really designed to limit the number
of people coming into the trade and they have a very limited number of
slots.


Not for the reasons you think you know.

That is certainly not what they say but if they really wanted more
people in the trade, they would have more slots. It is like the AMAS,
they bitch about the lack of doctors, then do everything they can to
limit the number who can be there.

The industry that should be limiting the numbers are lawyers and we
crank out 100,000 more every year



Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?


Slow learners, huh?



It's always a grin to watch the plutocrats and wannabes put down the
difficulties involved in learning how to be a competent building
tradesman who works on large commercial buildings. I doubt anyone here
could learn or pass the specialty welding requirements involved, for
example, in a pharma plant, or a nuclear plant, or the chemistry
requirements involved in high strength cold weather mortar mixing or
coloration for bricklaying, or the building, running and maintenance of
a large-scale power plant. These workers aren't nailing together 2x4's
to build the wall frames of a stick built house, or using glue to
assembly plumbing pipe.


But most of the construction is not in nuclear plants and most
commercial buildings are not welded together.
Most construction guys build houses or low rise commercial that uses
the same techniques.



I am IAEI, ICBO and ICC certified in commercial electric along with a
Florida license. I do know what is involved.

They have even changed the code to allow "glued" plastic pipe and
Romex in commercial in most states.

Yes, well I am sure everything you know about construction can be taught in
one afternoon course at the local JuCo, right? Or perhaps via a popup book.
😀 Who needs apprenticeship programs?
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

Why the silence from JohnH?
 

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:49:05 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Back in the day when I worked for a big circulation daily newspaper

===

Which was what, a summer internship 45 years ago?

I can not speak to the building trades. I can however speak to the skilled trades program in the auto industry. I am a diemaker by trade. The Ford program was 2000 hours of classroom instruction and 6000 hours of on the job, hands on training.

I completed my apprenticeship in 3 1/2 years and I enjoyed a nice 11+ years working in the trade before taking a salaried position with Ford for my final 13 years there.

I would think that most skilled trade positions are structured because they have to be. To call someone a slow learner because it might take 3 to 4 years to complete the program is an insult to tradesmen(women) in general.

Why the silence from JohnH?
 

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 02:11:36 -0400, wrote:

I know the unions hate the idea of snap together conduit and
preassembled electrical boxes but that is the way the industry is
going. Plumbers are not packing cast iron drain pipe joints with Oakum
and lead and roof trusses come in on trucks from factories instead of
framing rafters with hand cut lumber. It may be sad that we are losing
some of those skills but we are also losing the skill of using a
typewriter, operating a slide rule and navigating with a sextant.
It is not the 20th century anymore.

===

Well said.

Why the silence from JohnH?
 

On 7/23/2015 11:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:49:05 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Back in the day when I worked for a big circulation daily newspaper

===

Which was what, a summer internship 45 years ago?

There's not enough people in Kansas to support a "big circulation daily"
Besides he was just an obit. copywriter.

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

MSNBC is restructuring programing.
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/24/15 2:27 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
When you are dead last in the cable ratings you need to do something.





I'm pretty sure Fox has all the viewers who are no smarter than Brillo pads.

Majority of the voters?

MSNBC is restructuring programing.
 

On 7/24/15 12:32 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/24/15 2:27 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
When you are dead last in the cable ratings you need to do something.





I'm pretty sure Fox has all the viewers who are no smarter than Brillo pads.

Majority of the voters?


I wouldn't speak to the intelligence of voters generally, but there have
been several studies showing that Fox viewers ain't that bright and I
believe one study showed that the more they watched Fox, the dumber they
got.

A problem in this country is that an awfully high percentage of those
who are qualified to vote don't vote. That's been the case, pretty much,
since I became conscious of voting, back when I was a young teenager.

Why the silence from JohnH?
 

Greg, you left out the vanishing art of Morse Code, shorthand, and manual writing in general,