On 3/30/2015 7:27 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/29/15 4:01 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:04:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/29/2015 1:33 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:08:50 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 04:51:27 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

After a couple days of melting, we had a heavy snowfall last night.
Where's the JohnnyMop when you need him? Maybe he hopped on his
moto guzzler and is on his way up here to shovel my sidewalk.

You still can't shovel your own snow?

===

John, please give it a rest. That horse was dead after the first
beating.



No kidding.

For John (because I know he's going to now give me a lecture on how a
Cessna steers again) ... here's some info that will maybe clear up our
disagreement.

This is for a Cessna 150 but it also applies to the 152 and the 172.
They all operate the same way. Pertinent excerpt:

".... Tricycle aircraft will align with the direction of travel if
weight is kept off the nose wheel. There is a significant design
difference of the nose wheel between Cessna and Piper. On the ground,
Piper steers heavily and positively; Cessnas have springs that will
gradually pull the wheel into the turn. The left and right turning
springs of the Cessna are usually of different tension. This means that
more differential toe braking will be required in one direction than in
the other.

(Note by me: There is no direct connection of the nose gear to the
rudder pedals on the Cessna. They are spring loaded.)

The Cessna's nose steering is coupled to springs, and it's only movable
10 degrees) either side, unless differential braking is used. Braking
will then caster the wheel to 30 degrees."

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/cessna150.htm


In addition John:

When taxiing on the ground you can turn make turns (although they tend
to be wide) using rudders only but the turn is because you have
deflected the rudder to one side. By adding some throttle, you cause
the prop wash to hit the deflected rudder which pushes the back of the
airplane in the opposite direction of the turn. That causes the front
of the airplane to turn in the direction you desire to go. The spring
loaded nose gear simply allows the tricycle landing gear to follow the
turn. For sharp turns, you use differential braking.

Very interesting. Thanks! Helps explain why they make steering rods
for the Cessnas.

Some of the RC planes with a turnable nose geer also turn with rudder
action. The
physics are basically the same as in the above paragraph, but without the
differential braking. Although, the bigger, more expensive planes have
brakes, so
they may also use them for steering. I don't have one of those several
thousand
dollar jobs.



So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7



Apparently you've never seen a RC Cessna 172.
Have a look at one in action.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...6804167A671E85



--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On 3/30/2015 7:57 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?


Learn to read American English. A.
There was a heated discussion on whether or not the 172 has a steerable
nose wheel linked to the rudder control. Your boy Harry Jumped in to
snark things up a bit as usual. Why do you hang out with such a turd?

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On 3/30/15 7:57 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?


You mean, it's not?

On Monday, 30 March 2015 09:41:08 UTC-3, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 3/30/2015 7:57 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?


Learn to read American English. A.
There was a heated discussion on whether or not the 172 has a steerable
nose wheel linked to the rudder control. Your boy Harry Jumped in to
snark things up a bit as usual. Why do you hang out with such a turd?

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

'merican english??? You jest!

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 07:27:22 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 3/29/15 4:01 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:04:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
snipped

When taxiing on the ground you can turn make turns (although they tend
to be wide) using rudders only but the turn is because you have
deflected the rudder to one side. By adding some throttle, you cause
the prop wash to hit the deflected rudder which pushes the back of the
airplane in the opposite direction of the turn. That causes the front
of the airplane to turn in the direction you desire to go. The spring
loaded nose gear simply allows the tricycle landing gear to follow the
turn. For sharp turns, you use differential braking.

Very interesting. Thanks! Helps explain why they make steering rods for the Cessnas.

Some of the RC planes with a turnable nose geer also turn with rudder action. The
physics are basically the same as in the above paragraph, but without the
differential braking. Although, the bigger, more expensive planes have brakes, so
they may also use them for steering. I don't have one of those several thousand
dollar jobs.



So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7


Yeah, pretty much. Of course for most of those it's done mentally, no gauges. And
since we're flying close to the ground, there is not a lot of time to waste in making
the decisions. With jets, and high speed warbirds, the speed may approach 100mph (not
scale), and because the planes are relatively small it's easy to lose sight of them
very quickly. Thus most of the warnings are 'audio', not visual. With FPV
multirotors, a lot more visual information can be transmitted to the headset.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?

Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing?
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 9:57:41 AM UTC-4, John H. wrote:

Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?

Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing?


dicklicker is trying to be harry....but failed. We all know he's just a dim-witted lacky.

On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?

Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing?



I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a
real plane. Of course it isn't.

At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are.

Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if
he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at
slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of
airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing,
tricycle gear small Cessnas.

You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder
pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear
that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn.
The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded
assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow
the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or
wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder
pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way
or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression
on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing
the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in
your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:20:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?

Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing?



I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a
real plane. Of course it isn't.

Exactly.


At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are.

I don't believe that's true either. I believe I may have referred to 'similarities'
in which case you started in about how they were not at all similar.

Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if
he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at
slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of
airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing,
tricycle gear small Cessnas.

You asked perhaps a dozen different questions. To each of them I provided an answer.
You then highlighted the 'big differences', such as the steering, which in fact
turned out to be quite similar in both real and RC aircraft. In fact, a whole lot of
similarities surfaced.

You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder
pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear
that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn.
The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded
assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow
the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or
wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder
pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way
or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression
on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing
the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in
your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged.

Exactly. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Cessnas *can* be turned by nose
wheel with the rudder pedals. Initially your claim was that they couldn't, and there
was another of the big differences between 'real' and 'RC'.

Depending on the size and investment in the RC aircraft, the similarities between RC
and 'real' aircraft are numerous.

The biggest difference is that a crash won't kill the pilot, unless the RC pilot
crashes into his own head. And I expect that's been done at least once!

--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

On 3/30/2015 10:47 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:20:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?

Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing?



I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a
real plane. Of course it isn't.

Exactly.


At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are.

I don't believe that's true either. I believe I may have referred to 'similarities'
in which case you started in about how they were not at all similar.

Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if
he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at
slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of
airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing,
tricycle gear small Cessnas.

You asked perhaps a dozen different questions. To each of them I provided an answer.
You then highlighted the 'big differences', such as the steering, which in fact
turned out to be quite similar in both real and RC aircraft. In fact, a whole lot of
similarities surfaced.

You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder
pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear
that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn.
The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded
assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow
the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or
wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder
pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way
or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression
on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing
the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in
your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged.



Exactly. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Cessnas *can* be turned by nose
wheel with the rudder pedals. Initially your claim was that they couldn't, and there
was another of the big differences between 'real' and 'RC'.


On that point we are still in disagreement. The Cessnas in discussion
are *not* turned by the nose wheel. The nose wheel simply reacts to a
turn via compression of the springs in the shaft that makes a minor
adjustment in the wheel's castor angle, allowing it to follow the turn.
The turn is initiated by differential braking (for a sharp turn) or
by the affect of prop wash over the rudder. The nose gear reacts passively.

Obviously there are other types of small airplanes that have active nose
gear steering, but this is how the Cessnas work.

Perhaps you interpret the name "steering shaft" as meaning it is active.
What is called the steering shaft is really just the tube assembly
containing the spring.

I learned something I didn't know before in this discussion. When a
Cessna lifts off on takeoff, the nose wheel drops a bit, disengaging
from the spring loaded tubes and defaults to a position that is in
alignment with the main landing gear. This is important when landing
obviously. You hold off putting the nose down for as long as possible
while bleeding off speed.