glock 18c
 

On 12/18/14 5:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:20:45 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote:


My brother, former cop, loved the P226 and the decocking feature. He
could chamber a round, decock, add another round to the magazine, and
ready to shoot by pulling the trigger.

This all came about from police who were transitionally from a
revolver to an SA. That is what the "P" means in my KP90.
This will react just like a revolver.



The "P" means police?

I seriously don't understand the rational for DA/SA in semi-auto
pistols. I don't like the typically long and indefinite DA pull to get
to SA. I think when you pull the trigger on a firearm, it should go
bang...immediately, unless you happen to like two stage triggers. I don't.

My revolver is DA unless I pull the hammer back and pull the trigger. I
hardly ever fire it DA. I bought a DA revolver because I prefer the way
the cylinder rolls out for loading and unloading rounds. I never liked
the SA method of pushing the empties out one at a time.

I'm trying to decide on a new trigger for my AR-15. The Colt comes with
a typical mil-spec trigger...too long a pull and too heavy. I'm thinking
3 to 3.5 pounds, single stage, would be to my liking.

glock 18c
 

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:12:11 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 17:16:46 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:26:17 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:16:35 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 13:55:58 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 12:36:37 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 08:13:20 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 00:39:18 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 12:30:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/17/14 8:25 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 12/16/14 10:39 PM, Califbill wrote:
New gun for Harry. Shoot up a few thousand rounds quickly
https://www.youtube.com/embed/L_D9weITWDI


Please tell us, Bilious, why *this* would be a new "gun for Harry"?

I've posted here a number of times that:

1. I don't much like fully auto firearms
2. I don't like striker-fired pistols
3. I don't like polymer pistols
4. I don't like semi-auto pistols without a traditional safety

The first pistol I bought many years ago was a semi-auto Glock, and
while I had no issues with it, I got rid of it about a year later and
bought another 9 mm pistol, an all-steel one, with an ambi safety.






I should amend this... I did get to fire and I do like the relatively
new Walther PPQ M2, a 9 mm striker-fired pistol with a terrific trigger
right out of the box, much better than the Glocks I have fired. No
traditional safety, partly polymer, but still a really nice sidearm.
Wouldn't mind owning one.

Which part bothers you, the fact that it is striker fired or that it
is DAO?

Actually it is fairly common that DAO SAs don't have a safety. It is
the same theory as why revolvers don't have safeties.
My Ruger doesn't either. You simply decock it when you are not
actively shooting.
That is part of my regular drill, starting at retention, finger on the
slide, firing 2 quick rounds and returning to retention, finger on the
slide, while decocking. I have just built the muscle memory so it is
instinctive.

===

You decock the hammer with a round in the chamber?

What if?

These newer DAs have a decock lever, where the safety would be. It
blocks the firing pin and drops the hammer. It is scary the first time
you do it tho. ;-)

===

Yes, but what if... ?

I'd want to have some really safe place to point the gun while doing
that. An accidental discharge can really ruin your entire day.

That's why God made the ground!

===

Yes but that implies that you are outdoors.

True, but if you've chambered a round you hopefully had it pointed in
a safe direction anyway.

===

Yes but that also implies that you never chamber a round indoors where
there really is no safe direction.

Well, if you've chambered a round where there is no safe direction,
then you can decock the pistol in the same direction. Decocking seems
to be a pretty safe procedure.

Are you just trying to confuse me?

glock 18c
 

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:30:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/18/14 5:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:20:45 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote:


My brother, former cop, loved the P226 and the decocking feature. He
could chamber a round, decock, add another round to the magazine, and
ready to shoot by pulling the trigger.

This all came about from police who were transitionally from a
revolver to an SA. That is what the "P" means in my KP90.
This will react just like a revolver.



The "P" means police?

I seriously don't understand the rational for DA/SA in semi-auto
pistols. I don't like the typically long and indefinite DA pull to get
to SA. I think when you pull the trigger on a firearm, it should go
bang...immediately, unless you happen to like two stage triggers. I don't.

My revolver is DA unless I pull the hammer back and pull the trigger. I
hardly ever fire it DA. I bought a DA revolver because I prefer the way
the cylinder rolls out for loading and unloading rounds. I never liked
the SA method of pushing the empties out one at a time.

I'm trying to decide on a new trigger for my AR-15. The Colt comes with
a typical mil-spec trigger...too long a pull and too heavy. I'm thinking
3 to 3.5 pounds, single stage, would be to my liking.

This just shows the truth to the 'different strokes for different
folks' idiom. When shooting my revolvers, both DA, I very seldom pull
the hammer back and shoot SA.

I didn't know that single action revolvers required pushing empties
out one at a time. What a pain. Another good reason to stick with DA
revolvers.

glock 18c
 

On 12/18/14 6:58 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:30:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/18/14 5:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:20:45 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote:


My brother, former cop, loved the P226 and the decocking feature. He
could chamber a round, decock, add another round to the magazine, and
ready to shoot by pulling the trigger.

This all came about from police who were transitionally from a
revolver to an SA. That is what the "P" means in my KP90.
This will react just like a revolver.



The "P" means police?

I seriously don't understand the rational for DA/SA in semi-auto
pistols. I don't like the typically long and indefinite DA pull to get
to SA. I think when you pull the trigger on a firearm, it should go
bang...immediately, unless you happen to like two stage triggers. I don't.

My revolver is DA unless I pull the hammer back and pull the trigger. I
hardly ever fire it DA. I bought a DA revolver because I prefer the way
the cylinder rolls out for loading and unloading rounds. I never liked
the SA method of pushing the empties out one at a time.

I'm trying to decide on a new trigger for my AR-15. The Colt comes with
a typical mil-spec trigger...too long a pull and too heavy. I'm thinking
3 to 3.5 pounds, single stage, would be to my liking.

This just shows the truth to the 'different strokes for different
folks' idiom. When shooting my revolvers, both DA, I very seldom pull
the hammer back and shoot SA.

I didn't know that single action revolvers required pushing empties
out one at a time. What a pain. Another good reason to stick with DA
revolvers.



Yeah, on a SA revolver, the cylinder does not flip out. There's a "port"
on the right side of the pistol, typically, a little door that flips
open and you turn the cylinder by hand to line up each chamber with the
port. Then you push out the "empty" with a built in ejector rod that
sits under the barrel. The modern variant of the DA revolver, with a
flip-out cylinder, didn't come along until nearly the end of the 19th
Century, long after the Wild West was tamed.

Makes you wonder about all those cowboy westerns in which the
gunfighters quickly reload. Nope. :)

glock 18c
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 12/18/14 6:58 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:30:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/18/14 5:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:20:45 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote:


My brother, former cop, loved the P226 and the decocking feature. He
could chamber a round, decock, add another round to the magazine, and
ready to shoot by pulling the trigger.

This all came about from police who were transitionally from a
revolver to an SA. That is what the "P" means in my KP90.
This will react just like a revolver.



The "P" means police?

I seriously don't understand the rational for DA/SA in semi-auto
pistols. I don't like the typically long and indefinite DA pull to get
to SA. I think when you pull the trigger on a firearm, it should go
bang...immediately, unless you happen to like two stage triggers. I don't.

My revolver is DA unless I pull the hammer back and pull the trigger. I
hardly ever fire it DA. I bought a DA revolver because I prefer the way
the cylinder rolls out for loading and unloading rounds. I never liked
the SA method of pushing the empties out one at a time.

I'm trying to decide on a new trigger for my AR-15. The Colt comes with
a typical mil-spec trigger...too long a pull and too heavy. I'm thinking
3 to 3.5 pounds, single stage, would be to my liking.

This just shows the truth to the 'different strokes for different
folks' idiom. When shooting my revolvers, both DA, I very seldom pull
the hammer back and shoot SA.

I didn't know that single action revolvers required pushing empties
out one at a time. What a pain. Another good reason to stick with DA
revolvers.



Yeah, on a SA revolver, the cylinder does not flip out. There's a "port"
on the right side of the pistol, typically, a little door that flips open
and you turn the cylinder by hand to line up each chamber with the port.
Then you push out the "empty" with a built in ejector rod that sits under
the barrel. The modern variant of the DA revolver, with a flip-out
cylinder, didn't come along until nearly the end of the 19th Century,
long after the Wild West was tamed.

Makes you wonder about all those cowboy westerns in which the gunfighters
quickly reload. Nope. :)

The gunfighter quickly reloading would have been a Top Break pistol. Th
S&W was well like for that feature. And lots of the Single Action black
powder guns had exchangeable cylinders.

glock 18c
 

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 19:15:14 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/18/14 6:58 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:30:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/18/14 5:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:20:45 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote:


My brother, former cop, loved the P226 and the decocking feature. He
could chamber a round, decock, add another round to the magazine, and
ready to shoot by pulling the trigger.

This all came about from police who were transitionally from a
revolver to an SA. That is what the "P" means in my KP90.
This will react just like a revolver.



The "P" means police?

I seriously don't understand the rational for DA/SA in semi-auto
pistols. I don't like the typically long and indefinite DA pull to get
to SA. I think when you pull the trigger on a firearm, it should go
bang...immediately, unless you happen to like two stage triggers. I don't.

My revolver is DA unless I pull the hammer back and pull the trigger. I
hardly ever fire it DA. I bought a DA revolver because I prefer the way
the cylinder rolls out for loading and unloading rounds. I never liked
the SA method of pushing the empties out one at a time.

I'm trying to decide on a new trigger for my AR-15. The Colt comes with
a typical mil-spec trigger...too long a pull and too heavy. I'm thinking
3 to 3.5 pounds, single stage, would be to my liking.

This just shows the truth to the 'different strokes for different
folks' idiom. When shooting my revolvers, both DA, I very seldom pull
the hammer back and shoot SA.

I didn't know that single action revolvers required pushing empties
out one at a time. What a pain. Another good reason to stick with DA
revolvers.



Yeah, on a SA revolver, the cylinder does not flip out. There's a "port"
on the right side of the pistol, typically, a little door that flips
open and you turn the cylinder by hand to line up each chamber with the
port. Then you push out the "empty" with a built in ejector rod that
sits under the barrel. The modern variant of the DA revolver, with a
flip-out cylinder, didn't come along until nearly the end of the 19th
Century, long after the Wild West was tamed.

Makes you wonder about all those cowboy westerns in which the
gunfighters quickly reload. Nope. :)

Yeah, after you mentioned it I looked on You Tube. That doesn't look
like a lot of fun. Guess I'll bypass all the 'cowboy' SA revolvers and
stick with what I've got, although I may consider a .22 DA revolver.

glock 18c
 

On 12/18/14 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:30:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/18/14 5:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:20:45 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote:


My brother, former cop, loved the P226 and the decocking feature. He
could chamber a round, decock, add another round to the magazine, and
ready to shoot by pulling the trigger.

This all came about from police who were transitionally from a
revolver to an SA. That is what the "P" means in my KP90.
This will react just like a revolver.



The "P" means police?

That is what they told me.


I seriously don't understand the rational for DA/SA in semi-auto
pistols. I don't like the typically long and indefinite DA pull to get
to SA. I think when you pull the trigger on a firearm, it should go
bang...immediately, unless you happen to like two stage triggers. I don't.


It is just something you learn to do. I feel a DA carried with the
hammer down is safer than a SA in condition 1.
Most police departments agree with me.

My revolver is DA unless I pull the hammer back and pull the trigger. I
hardly ever fire it DA. I bought a DA revolver because I prefer the way
the cylinder rolls out for loading and unloading rounds. I never liked
the SA method of pushing the empties out one at a time.

Again, if you are not training with your revolver DA, you are not
exploiting the capabilities of your weapon. If you are just busting
soda bottles, it really doesn't matter but if you are in a serious
social situation, you do not want to be cocking your DA revolver. Most
are not designed to do that easily and there is too good a chance you
might end up in half cock..
I was carrying my 1934 in condition 2 until an instructor beat me up
about it. I thought I was good about cocking and shooting, until he
actually tested me.



Next time you visit a good gun store, pick up and handle a Ruger GP100.
Pulling the hammer back is easy and becomes automatic. I have fired mine
DA, and it is smooth and fast, but I prefer SA. Remember, I don't carry
this revolver for self-defense. It's a honker. It's not my first choice,
but if I needed it for defense in the house, I'd cock the hammer.
There's no one in this house at night besides my wife and me and some
cats, and we're all in bed, not in the first floor hallway or in the
basement. Anyone breaks in, it'll make noise, the alarms will go off,
the lights will come on, and I'll be waiting for Mr. Bozo.

glock 18c
 

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:36:35 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:12:11 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 17:16:46 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:26:17 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:16:35 -0500, Toad Gigger
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 13:55:58 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 12:36:37 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 08:13:20 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 00:39:18 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 12:30:18 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 12/17/14 8:25 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 12/16/14 10:39 PM, Califbill wrote:
New gun for Harry. Shoot up a few thousand rounds quickly
https://www.youtube.com/embed/L_D9weITWDI


Please tell us, Bilious, why *this* would be a new "gun for Harry"?

I've posted here a number of times that:

1. I don't much like fully auto firearms
2. I don't like striker-fired pistols
3. I don't like polymer pistols
4. I don't like semi-auto pistols without a traditional safety

The first pistol I bought many years ago was a semi-auto Glock, and
while I had no issues with it, I got rid of it about a year later and
bought another 9 mm pistol, an all-steel one, with an ambi safety.






I should amend this... I did get to fire and I do like the relatively
new Walther PPQ M2, a 9 mm striker-fired pistol with a terrific trigger
right out of the box, much better than the Glocks I have fired. No
traditional safety, partly polymer, but still a really nice sidearm.
Wouldn't mind owning one.

Which part bothers you, the fact that it is striker fired or that it
is DAO?

Actually it is fairly common that DAO SAs don't have a safety. It is
the same theory as why revolvers don't have safeties.
My Ruger doesn't either. You simply decock it when you are not
actively shooting.
That is part of my regular drill, starting at retention, finger on the
slide, firing 2 quick rounds and returning to retention, finger on the
slide, while decocking. I have just built the muscle memory so it is
instinctive.

===

You decock the hammer with a round in the chamber?

What if?

These newer DAs have a decock lever, where the safety would be. It
blocks the firing pin and drops the hammer. It is scary the first time
you do it tho. ;-)

===

Yes, but what if... ?

I'd want to have some really safe place to point the gun while doing
that. An accidental discharge can really ruin your entire day.

That's why God made the ground!

===

Yes but that implies that you are outdoors.

True, but if you've chambered a round you hopefully had it pointed in
a safe direction anyway.

===

Yes but that also implies that you never chamber a round indoors where
there really is no safe direction.

Well, if you've chambered a round where there is no safe direction,
then you can decock the pistol in the same direction. Decocking seems
to be a pretty safe procedure.

Are you just trying to confuse me?

===

Not at all. My point is that the "decocker" is a mechanical
mechanism operated by a human being, and is therefore likely to have
some failure modes which could result in an accidental discharge when
the hammer comes down. I would prefer not to risk an accidental
discharge indoors where there really is no safe direction to point the
gun in.

glock 18c
 

On 12/18/2014 9:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:16:54 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

Yeah, after you mentioned it I looked on You Tube. That doesn't look
like a lot of fun. Guess I'll bypass all the 'cowboy' SA revolvers and
stick with what I've got, although I may consider a .22 DA revolver.

I got a deal I couldn't refuse on my Colt Frontier scout (.22) but I
pretty much just use it to shoot bird shot. It is pretty tough on rats
out to 15 feet or so.

I have a Colt Target Woodsman if I want to do any serious .22 pistol
shooting.



I had a "Pre-Woodsman" for a while. Made in 1922.

glock 18c
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/18/2014 9:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:16:54 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

Yeah, after you mentioned it I looked on You Tube. That doesn't look
like a lot of fun. Guess I'll bypass all the 'cowboy' SA revolvers and
stick with what I've got, although I may consider a .22 DA revolver.

I got a deal I couldn't refuse on my Colt Frontier scout (.22) but I
pretty much just use it to shoot bird shot. It is pretty tough on rats
out to 15 feet or so.

I have a Colt Target Woodsman if I want to do any serious .22 pistol
shooting.



I had a "Pre-Woodsman" for a while. Made in 1922.

My dad had a 1950's era woodsman. Worst shooting handgun he ever owned.
Traded it for a Benjamin air pistol. You could bench rest that Woodsman
and have a 5' pattern at 50'. The air pistol was hell on rats. Was the
one with a pump, not co2.