Conflicted
 

So now I have questions.

The guy who was killed in New York was resisting. May not have been
physical, but certainly was verbal. He was not cooperating with or
obeying the commands of the police.

For that he could be found guilty of resisting arrest.

Different issue:

One of the cops applied a choke hold. The medical examiner's report
indicated that it contributed to Garner's death which was determined to
be a homicide.

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

If so, didn't the cop break the law?

If so, the law is black or white. You either break it or you don't.

If the cop broke the law how can he be found to be not accountable for a
homicide?


Not trying to be cute here. I don't know the answers to these questions.

Conflicted
 

On 12/3/14 6:52 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

So now I have questions.

The guy who was killed in New York was resisting. May not have been
physical, but certainly was verbal. He was not cooperating with or
obeying the commands of the police.

For that he could be found guilty of resisting arrest.

Different issue:

One of the cops applied a choke hold. The medical examiner's report
indicated that it contributed to Garner's death which was determined to
be a homicide.

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

If so, didn't the cop break the law?

If so, the law is black or white. You either break it or you don't.

If the cop broke the law how can he be found to be not accountable for a
homicide?


Not trying to be cute here. I don't know the answers to these questions.





Laws concerning violence apparently do not apply when the violence is
committed by cops.

I understand the feelings of some in minority communities who have no
respect for cops. There have been too many incidents of cops using
grossly excessive force against unarmed suspects and against people who
have done nothing wrong.

The cops are out of control.

--
I feel no need to explain my politics to stupid right-wingers.
After all, I am *not* the Jackass Whisperer.

Conflicted
 

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:52:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So now I have questions.

The guy who was killed in New York was resisting. May not have been
physical, but certainly was verbal. He was not cooperating with or
obeying the commands of the police.

For that he could be found guilty of resisting arrest.

Different issue:

One of the cops applied a choke hold. The medical examiner's report
indicated that it contributed to Garner's death which was determined to
be a homicide.

Whether it was really a 'choke hold' or not appears to be questionable
according to a source on CNN about ten minutes ago.

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Key word is 'policy'.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

NYPD policy is not law, per se.

If so, didn't the cop break the law?

N/A

If so, the law is black or white. You either break it or you don't.

Again, N/A


If the cop broke the law how can he be found to be not accountable for a
homicide?

He did not break the law, but violated NYPD policy.

Not trying to be cute here. I don't know the answers to these questions.


Watch some CNN. It's probably not as biased as MSNBC.
--

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who's winning an argument
with a liberal."

....Peter Brimelow (Author)
(Thanks, Luddite!)

Conflicted
 

On 12/3/2014 7:08 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:52:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So now I have questions.

The guy who was killed in New York was resisting. May not have been
physical, but certainly was verbal. He was not cooperating with or
obeying the commands of the police.

For that he could be found guilty of resisting arrest.

Different issue:

One of the cops applied a choke hold. The medical examiner's report
indicated that it contributed to Garner's death which was determined to
be a homicide.

Whether it was really a 'choke hold' or not appears to be questionable
according to a source on CNN about ten minutes ago.

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Key word is 'policy'.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

NYPD policy is not law, per se.

If so, didn't the cop break the law?

N/A

If so, the law is black or white. You either break it or you don't.

Again, N/A


If the cop broke the law how can he be found to be not accountable for a
homicide?

He did not break the law, but violated NYPD policy.

Not trying to be cute here. I don't know the answers to these questions.


Watch some CNN. It's probably not as biased as MSNBC.

It's easier to watch MSNBC, why worry about all the facts or both sides
when they are gonna' tell you what to think and say anyway :)
--

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who's winning an argument
with a liberal."

...Peter Brimelow (Author)
(Thanks, Luddite!)

Conflicted
 

On 12/3/2014 7:08 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:52:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So now I have questions.

The guy who was killed in New York was resisting. May not have been
physical, but certainly was verbal. He was not cooperating with or
obeying the commands of the police.

For that he could be found guilty of resisting arrest.

Different issue:

One of the cops applied a choke hold. The medical examiner's report
indicated that it contributed to Garner's death which was determined to
be a homicide.

Whether it was really a 'choke hold' or not appears to be questionable
according to a source on CNN about ten minutes ago.

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Key word is 'policy'.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

NYPD policy is not law, per se.

If so, didn't the cop break the law?

N/A

If so, the law is black or white. You either break it or you don't.

Again, N/A


If the cop broke the law how can he be found to be not accountable for a
homicide?

He did not break the law, but violated NYPD policy.

Not trying to be cute here. I don't know the answers to these questions.


Watch some CNN. It's probably not as biased as MSNBC.



I watch CNN about 80 percent of the time. Watching it right now.
Media people can debate if the cop used a choke hold or not all day.
The findings of the medical examiner says he was choked and it
contributed to his death.

Did the GJ decide to disregard the medical examiner's findings?
Did they decide it was not a homicide?

Doesn't make sense to me.

Conflicted
 

On 12/3/2014 7:18 PM, KC wrote:
On 12/3/2014 7:08 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:52:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Not trying to be cute here. I don't know the answers to these
questions.



Watch some CNN. It's probably not as biased as MSNBC.


It's easier to watch MSNBC, why worry about all the facts or both sides
when they are gonna' tell you what to think and say anyway :)


Why are you babbling on your computer or whatever you use?
Aren't you missing the latest episode of Hannity?

Conflicted
 

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:52:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

===

No. The rule is a departmental policy, and if you break it, you are
subject to departmental discipline/corrective action. If you could
establish in a departmental hearing that you had no other choice or it
was accidental, you might be exonerated. That doesn't seem very
likely in this case since they could have maced Garner or tasered him.
The cops clearly over reacted in my opinion. Given Garner's asthma
and other medical issues, the mace or taser might have killed him but
we'll never know.

Conflicted
 

On 12/3/2014 7:21 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/3/2014 7:08 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:52:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So now I have questions.

The guy who was killed in New York was resisting. May not have been
physical, but certainly was verbal. He was not cooperating with or
obeying the commands of the police.

For that he could be found guilty of resisting arrest.

Different issue:

One of the cops applied a choke hold. The medical examiner's report
indicated that it contributed to Garner's death which was determined to
be a homicide.

Whether it was really a 'choke hold' or not appears to be questionable
according to a source on CNN about ten minutes ago.

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Key word is 'policy'.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

NYPD policy is not law, per se.

If so, didn't the cop break the law?

N/A

If so, the law is black or white. You either break it or you don't.

Again, N/A


If the cop broke the law how can he be found to be not accountable for a
homicide?

He did not break the law, but violated NYPD policy.

Not trying to be cute here. I don't know the answers to these
questions.


Watch some CNN. It's probably not as biased as MSNBC.



I watch CNN about 80 percent of the time. Watching it right now.
Media people can debate if the cop used a choke hold or not all day.
The findings of the medical examiner says he was choked and it
contributed to his death.

Did the GJ decide to disregard the medical examiner's findings?
Did they decide it was not a homicide?

Doesn't make sense to me.



The choking wasn't THE cause of death. It seems there were numerous
contributing factors.

Conflicted
 

On 12/3/2014 7:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:52:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

===

No. The rule is a departmental policy, and if you break it, you are
subject to departmental discipline/corrective action. If you could
establish in a departmental hearing that you had no other choice or it
was accidental, you might be exonerated. That doesn't seem very
likely in this case since they could have maced Garner or tasered him.
The cops clearly over reacted in my opinion. Given Garner's asthma
and other medical issues, the mace or taser might have killed him but
we'll never know.



Thanks. That makes sense.

It seems to me that police officers in NYC might have better things to
do than go after a guy for selling a few packs of non-taxed cigarettes.

But there was also a reference to Garner being involved in breaking up a
fight. Maybe that's why the police were called.

Conflicted
 

On 12/3/2014 7:39 PM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/3/2014 7:21 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/3/2014 7:08 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:52:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So now I have questions.

The guy who was killed in New York was resisting. May not have been
physical, but certainly was verbal. He was not cooperating with or
obeying the commands of the police.

For that he could be found guilty of resisting arrest.

Different issue:

One of the cops applied a choke hold. The medical examiner's report
indicated that it contributed to Garner's death which was determined to
be a homicide.

Whether it was really a 'choke hold' or not appears to be questionable
according to a source on CNN about ten minutes ago.

A choke hold in NY is not permitted under any circumstances per NYPD
policy. It is considered to be excessive force.

Key word is 'policy'.

Questions:

Is the choke therefore against the law?

NYPD policy is not law, per se.

If so, didn't the cop break the law?

N/A

If so, the law is black or white. You either break it or you don't.

Again, N/A


If the cop broke the law how can he be found to be not accountable
for a
homicide?

He did not break the law, but violated NYPD policy.

Not trying to be cute here. I don't know the answers to these
questions.


Watch some CNN. It's probably not as biased as MSNBC.



I watch CNN about 80 percent of the time. Watching it right now.
Media people can debate if the cop used a choke hold or not all day.
The findings of the medical examiner says he was choked and it
contributed to his death.

Did the GJ decide to disregard the medical examiner's findings?
Did they decide it was not a homicide?

Doesn't make sense to me.



The choking wasn't THE cause of death. It seems there were numerous
contributing factors.


No, but it was a contributing cause and his death was determined to be a
homicide.

Wayne cleared it up I think. The "no choke" is a NYPD policy, not a
law. Therefore the cop can't be accused of breaking a law. He broke a
policy which would be handled at the police department level, not a court.