On Sunday, August 31, 2014 5:15:09 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 8/31/14 3:28 AM, Califbill wrote:

wrote:

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 13:16:49 -0500, Harrold wrote:



On 8/30/2014 12:14 PM, wrote:

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:00:44 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



Another of our weird regs concerns AR-15s. If you buy one fully

assembled, it has to be one of only a couple of HBAR models. You can,

however, buy a fully assembled lower.



I guess I just never had the "black gun" thing.

I like wood and full power 30 cal if I am buying a center fire rifle.

I understand the attraction for the military but I am not packing 600

rounds into a fire fight, nor is my intent to inflict grievous wounds



I wonder what Harry's need for or attraction to military weaponry is?

Back in the sixties when Uncle Sam would have appreciated him picking up

a gun and serving his country, Harry preferred to seek a scholars

deferment to attend a third rate school for girls in, of all places, Kansas.



My point exactly. He could have stepped up and they would have given

him a M16-A1 and let him shoot gooks with it. Now he lives that life

vicariously shooting Evian bottles.



He would have been one of two things in the service. Clerk, or paper

pusher or cannon fodder. That liberal arts degree would not get a skilled

position. Why I got to fix radar on airplanes instead of jungle fighting.

Had skills that counted.







D'oh. I felt no desire to "serve" the brutal right-wing dictatorship in

Vietnam, or the equally corrupt pols who followed in its footsteps.



I think it is nice that you and Fretwell managed to avoid the shooting

war by hiding out fixing radar and cruising on coast guard ships.

FlaJim, of course, also avoided the shooting war. Brave boys, all of your,


"Brave boys, all of your,?"

The writer Krause is up for another Pulitzer!

On 9/2/2014 3:14 AM, Tom Nofinger wrote:
On Sunday, August 31, 2014 5:15:09 AM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 8/31/14 3:28 AM, Califbill wrote:

wrote:

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 13:16:49 -0500, Harrold wrote:



On 8/30/2014 12:14 PM, wrote:

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:00:44 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



Another of our weird regs concerns AR-15s. If you buy one fully

assembled, it has to be one of only a couple of HBAR models. You can,

however, buy a fully assembled lower.



I guess I just never had the "black gun" thing.

I like wood and full power 30 cal if I am buying a center fire rifle.

I understand the attraction for the military but I am not packing 600

rounds into a fire fight, nor is my intent to inflict grievous wounds



I wonder what Harry's need for or attraction to military weaponry is?

Back in the sixties when Uncle Sam would have appreciated him picking up

a gun and serving his country, Harry preferred to seek a scholars

deferment to attend a third rate school for girls in, of all places, Kansas.



My point exactly. He could have stepped up and they would have given

him a M16-A1 and let him shoot gooks with it. Now he lives that life

vicariously shooting Evian bottles.



He would have been one of two things in the service. Clerk, or paper

pusher or cannon fodder. That liberal arts degree would not get a skilled

position. Why I got to fix radar on airplanes instead of jungle fighting.

Had skills that counted.







D'oh. I felt no desire to "serve" the brutal right-wing dictatorship in

Vietnam, or the equally corrupt pols who followed in its footsteps.



I think it is nice that you and Fretwell managed to avoid the shooting

war by hiding out fixing radar and cruising on coast guard ships.

FlaJim, of course, also avoided the shooting war. Brave boys, all of your,


"Brave boys, all of your,?"

The writer Krause is up for another Pulitzer!


He acquired his language skills from Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, two
men of the cloth who sound like ghetto folk.

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 6:51:10 AM UTC-4, F*O*A*D wrote:


Cites, please.

Kevin? Is that you?

On 9/2/14 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 06:51:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



What percentage of our troops over there are carrying and shooting high
caliber rifles,

I think you have totally missed the point. We were just trying to say
the 7.62x51 was more capable at long range than the 5.56,

You are the one who tried to make this a conversation about why most
of the soldiers are still issued AR variants. I doubt more than 30 or
40% ever actually shoot at anyone anyway.


I neither missed the point nor argued that one rifle is "more capable"
than the other, although I did argue that the AR was more capable than
the AK because it was more accurate.

On 9/2/14 1:37 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:20:24 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/2/14 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 06:51:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



What percentage of our troops over there are carrying and shooting high
caliber rifles,

I think you have totally missed the point. We were just trying to say
the 7.62x51 was more capable at long range than the 5.56,

You are the one who tried to make this a conversation about why most
of the soldiers are still issued AR variants. I doubt more than 30 or
40% ever actually shoot at anyone anyway.


I neither missed the point nor argued that one rifle is "more capable"
than the other, although I did argue that the AR was more capable than
the AK because it was more accurate.

You have never heard me say much about the AK. It is a tool for
peasant warriors in 3d world countries. Most of their targets will be
less capably armed.
It is interesting that the Soviet army made the choice to go with a
5.45 MM round in the AK74 (the rifle you saw Bin Laden carrying)
The tip off is the orange magazine.


I've "handled" and shot a Colt LE 901. Damned thing weighed more than 10
pounds with a mag and all the usual "tactical" crapola on it. Not a
rifle to be shot off hand.

On 9/2/14 2:33 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:55:40 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I've "handled" and shot a Colt LE 901. Damned thing weighed more than 10
pounds with a mag and all the usual "tactical" crapola on it. Not a
rifle to be shot off hand.

When did we become such sissies? The M1 weighed about 10 pounds and
the skinny kids in the 40s had no problem carrying them across most of
Europe and the Pacific islands.
I carried one most of the day in boot camp, including during
calisthenics (PDUA). Do some situps holding this over your head and it
will put hair on your chest.
My M1A is about the same depending on which magazine I have in it.
With a 30 round it is probably over 11 pounds.
I am not sure I would want it much lighter shooting 7.62 NATO rounds.


I think my AR-15 weighs about 7.5 pounds with a 10-round mag and the
scope atop it. I don't have it tricked out with lots of rails and
attachments. I'd like to remove the forward sight/gas block, though, and
replace the stock handguard, which is kind of thick, with a thinner
single rail system that would also conceal the gas block. I don't think
I'd enjoy lugging around a rifle any heavier than what I have
now...certainly not for offhand shooting.

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 9/2/14 2:33 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:55:40 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I've "handled" and shot a Colt LE 901. Damned thing weighed more than 10
pounds with a mag and all the usual "tactical" crapola on it. Not a
rifle to be shot off hand.

When did we become such sissies? The M1 weighed about 10 pounds and
the skinny kids in the 40s had no problem carrying them across most of
Europe and the Pacific islands.
I carried one most of the day in boot camp, including during
calisthenics (PDUA). Do some situps holding this over your head and it
will put hair on your chest.
My M1A is about the same depending on which magazine I have in it.
With a 30 round it is probably over 11 pounds.
I am not sure I would want it much lighter shooting 7.62 NATO rounds.


I think my AR-15 weighs about 7.5 pounds with a 10-round mag and the
scope atop it. I don't have it tricked out with lots of rails and
attachments. I'd like to remove the forward sight/gas block, though, and
replace the stock handguard, which is kind of thick, with a thinner
single rail system that would also conceal the gas block. I don't think
I'd enjoy lugging around a rifle any heavier than what I have
now...certainly not for offhand shooting.

Because you are an out of shape wimp? Lots of 10 pound rifles are hauled
around all day during hunting season. As as Gregg stated, lots of M1's
were hauled all around Europe and on island landings in the Pacific.

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 9/2/14 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 06:51:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



What percentage of our troops over there are carrying and shooting high
caliber rifles,

I think you have totally missed the point. We were just trying to say
the 7.62x51 was more capable at long range than the 5.56,

You are the one who tried to make this a conversation about why most
of the soldiers are still issued AR variants. I doubt more than 30 or
40% ever actually shoot at anyone anyway.


I neither missed the point nor argued that one rifle is "more capable"
than the other, although I did argue that the AR was more capable than
the AK because it was more accurate.

And the question was never which of the two was more capable.

On 9/2/14 3:04 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 9/2/14 2:33 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:55:40 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I've "handled" and shot a Colt LE 901. Damned thing weighed more than 10
pounds with a mag and all the usual "tactical" crapola on it. Not a
rifle to be shot off hand.

When did we become such sissies? The M1 weighed about 10 pounds and
the skinny kids in the 40s had no problem carrying them across most of
Europe and the Pacific islands.
I carried one most of the day in boot camp, including during
calisthenics (PDUA). Do some situps holding this over your head and it
will put hair on your chest.
My M1A is about the same depending on which magazine I have in it.
With a 30 round it is probably over 11 pounds.
I am not sure I would want it much lighter shooting 7.62 NATO rounds.


I think my AR-15 weighs about 7.5 pounds with a 10-round mag and the
scope atop it. I don't have it tricked out with lots of rails and
attachments. I'd like to remove the forward sight/gas block, though, and
replace the stock handguard, which is kind of thick, with a thinner
single rail system that would also conceal the gas block. I don't think
I'd enjoy lugging around a rifle any heavier than what I have
now...certainly not for offhand shooting.

Because you are an out of shape wimp? Lots of 10 pound rifles are hauled
around all day during hunting season. As as Gregg stated, lots of M1's
were hauled all around Europe and on island landings in the Pacific.



Do you know what the term "offhand shooting" means, Bilious? It means no
hunting stick, no bipod, no support on a tree limb, no rest on a
shooting bag. It means standing up, holding the rifle to your shoulder
and shooting it. Most modern hunting rifles weigh eight pounds or less,
not the 10+ pounds a tricked out AR-10 would weigh.

What the hell would a great white hunter like you be going after in this
country where he would require a big, heavy, rifle to shoot offhand? My
lever action rifle will easily drop a deer and it weighs about 6.5 pounds.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:50:28 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 06:51:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



What percentage of our troops over there are carrying and shooting high
caliber rifles,

I think you have totally missed the point. We were just trying to say
the 7.62x51 was more capable at long range than the 5.56,

You are the one who tried to make this a conversation about why most
of the soldiers are still issued AR variants. I doubt more than 30 or
40% ever actually shoot at anyone anyway.

===

And most of them were providing covering fire with no really specific
point of aim.