anybody familiar with old wells?
 

On 8/27/2014 8:45 PM, KC wrote:
On 8/27/2014 5:08 PM, Harrold wrote:
On 8/27/2014 3:59 PM, True North wrote:

- show quoted text -
" That sounds like you had a jet pump.
KC appears to have a regular submersible.
Our neighborhood got by with 2" wells (still at 200') using surface
water (suction) pumps for decades, then around 95-2000 they started
sucking air and you had the choice of converting to jet or punching a
4" and using a submersible.
Since I do not irrigate, my 2" well was holding but I decided to go
the 4" route preemptively in 2001 as part of a total overhaul of my
water system. "


Yes, jet pump sounds familiar and the drilled part may have been only
6" in diameter.
The well only made up about 1.5 gallons per minute and I remember
running out of water (pump on continually) during one house party with
over a dozen guests flushing and washing continually.


I can't imagine how you were able to live like that.

I think we are required to show 3.5 gpm here...


When we had our well installed the minimum flow the well guy was looking
for was 12 gallons per minute. They went down 512 feet. I've forgotten
what they achieved but it was something like 16-18 gpm.

We don't use it for the house or for human drinking water. It's for the
lawn and paddock sprinkler systems, pool make up water and for washing
cars and horses. Never had it tested but the horses have been drinking
it for almost 14 years and they seem to be fine, dammit.

It's shut off during the winter.

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

On 8/27/2014 7:54 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:29:55 -0500, Harrold wrote:

On 8/27/2014 4:23 PM, wrote:
')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

It cost me $400 labor to have my pump replaced. The well pipe comes in
20 ft threaded sections. It takes special equipment to lift, uncouple,
and couple the pipe without dropping the pump. Do you want to rely on
the wiring to save the pump if something goes wrong with the jerry-rig.
Let the pros do it.

This one looks like it is on PVC pipe. I bet they are 20' bell end
sections of pipe solvent welded together and they just fed it down the
hole. When you are pulling it up, the end will flop over, water will
run out and it will get lighter as it comes up.
I haven't tried it but my buddy says if you snake an air hose down
that pipe, you can blow all the water right out. Then you are only
bringing up empty pipe and the pump.
Just be sure you have the air pressure set pretty low to start and
bring it up. You don't want to shock the bottom of the pipe. Once it
starts you will have an "Old Jed's a millionaire" gusher going.


That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

On 8/27/2014 6:54 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:29:55 -0500, Harrold wrote:

On 8/27/2014 4:23 PM, wrote:
')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

It cost me $400 labor to have my pump replaced. The well pipe comes in
20 ft threaded sections. It takes special equipment to lift, uncouple,
and couple the pipe without dropping the pump. Do you want to rely on
the wiring to save the pump if something goes wrong with the jerry-rig.
Let the pros do it.

This one looks like it is on PVC pipe. I bet they are 20' bell end
sections of pipe solvent welded together and they just fed it down the
hole. When you are pulling it up, the end will flop over, water will
run out and it will get lighter as it comes up.
I haven't tried it but my buddy says if you snake an air hose down
that pipe, you can blow all the water right out. Then you are only
bringing up empty pipe and the pump.
Just be sure you have the air pressure set pretty low to start and
bring it up. You don't want to shock the bottom of the pipe. Once it
starts you will have an "Old Jed's a millionaire" gusher going.

Our systems are different. Mine is galvanized steel.

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

On 8/28/2014 12:02 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 21:21:06 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/27/2014 7:54 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:29:55 -0500, Harrold wrote:

On 8/27/2014 4:23 PM, wrote:
')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

It cost me $400 labor to have my pump replaced. The well pipe comes in
20 ft threaded sections. It takes special equipment to lift, uncouple,
and couple the pipe without dropping the pump. Do you want to rely on
the wiring to save the pump if something goes wrong with the jerry-rig.
Let the pros do it.

This one looks like it is on PVC pipe. I bet they are 20' bell end
sections of pipe solvent welded together and they just fed it down the
hole. When you are pulling it up, the end will flop over, water will
run out and it will get lighter as it comes up.
I haven't tried it but my buddy says if you snake an air hose down
that pipe, you can blow all the water right out. Then you are only
bringing up empty pipe and the pump.
Just be sure you have the air pressure set pretty low to start and
bring it up. You don't want to shock the bottom of the pipe. Once it
starts you will have an "Old Jed's a millionaire" gusher going.


That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

On Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:19:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:47:09 -0400, KC wrote:


So, by your statement I assume that pipe and pump is suspended and not
resting on the bottom of the well? If so, there must be something else


There is a good chance the pump is not all the way to the bottom of
the well. My well is 200' but the static water level is about 30'


FWIW, I seriously doubt any pump would be resting on the bottom of a well. The well naturally fills up with sediment over time, and if you placed the pump on the bottom you'd be sucking up sediment and having problems before long.

My old well was 385', and this house has one that's 305'. Both are 6" rock wells, and in both cases the pumps are down only about 150'. As you point out, the water level is within 15-30 feet of the surface. With the old well, the pump wasn't even below the end of the casing, it went down 180'.

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

On 8/28/2014 9:24 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:19:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:47:09 -0400, KC wrote:


So, by your statement I assume that pipe and pump is suspended and not
resting on the bottom of the well? If so, there must be something else


There is a good chance the pump is not all the way to the bottom of
the well. My well is 200' but the static water level is about 30'


FWIW, I seriously doubt any pump would be resting on the bottom of a well. The well naturally fills up with sediment over time, and if you placed the pump on the bottom you'd be sucking up sediment and having problems before long.

My old well was 385', and this house has one that's 305'. Both are 6" rock wells, and in both cases the pumps are down only about 150'. As you point out, the water level is within 15-30 feet of the surface. With the old well, the pump wasn't even below the end of the casing, it went down 180'.



Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

On 8/28/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.



That sounds about right, the video I saw had a 200 foot well with 85
psi, and it was glugging a cup and a half glug, every few seconds... the
guy said it was doing about 4 gpm.. Most of the vids I have seen look
pretty stable as to the concept. The flow is not steady, and I am sure
it's noisy, but it does seem to work with very simple setup. Another
concern is water level in the well, there needs to be a few feet of pipe
below the air inlet on the pipe for it to work right. At the same time I
am still working on getting that old pipe out. Got the Tee you
recommended on today, and will try to pull the cap when I get home
tonight and can build a staging to hold the pipe and tee....

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

On 8/28/2014 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:12:18 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/28/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.



That sounds about right, the video I saw had a 200 foot well with 85
psi, and it was glugging a cup and a half glug, every few seconds... the
guy said it was doing about 4 gpm.. Most of the vids I have seen look
pretty stable as to the concept. The flow is not steady, and I am sure
it's noisy, but it does seem to work with very simple setup. Another
concern is water level in the well, there needs to be a few feet of pipe
below the air inlet on the pipe for it to work right. At the same time I
am still working on getting that old pipe out. Got the Tee you
recommended on today, and will try to pull the cap when I get home
tonight and can build a staging to hold the pipe and tee....

If you have air, it might be worth trying to get as much water out of
that pipe as possible.,

I am not sure about where the water comes out. Down here the water
would come up the pipe in your picture. It doesn't freeze here. If you
are coming out 4' below grade, you will have to dig that out and cut
it before you can do anything


Yeah, that's what I figured... that's gonna' be a bitch.

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

KC wrote:
On 8/28/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.



That sounds about right, the video I saw had a 200 foot well with 85 psi,
and it was glugging a cup and a half glug, every few seconds... the guy
said it was doing about 4 gpm.. Most of the vids I have seen look pretty
stable as to the concept. The flow is not steady, and I am sure it's
noisy, but it does seem to work with very simple setup. Another concern
is water level in the well, there needs to be a few feet of pipe below
the air inlet on the pipe for it to work right. At the same time I am
still working on getting that old pipe out. Got the Tee you recommended
on today, and will try to pull the cap when I get home tonight and can
build a staging to hold the pipe and tee....

When I hand bored a 43' well at my last house, I used a couple 2x4's with a
hinge and a hole drilled the size of the pipe to clamp around the pipe as I
pulled the 10' sections. But I had a pipe flange connecting the sections
while drilling. So maybe you could modify, and wrap a length of chain
around the pipe and let the chain rest against the wood while splitting the
pipes.

anybody familiar with old wells?
 

wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.

I doubt it is more efficient than a submersible. Heat loss in compressing
air, the loss in pumping, etc. a 3/4 horse pump these days is fairly
efficient. I run a 1.5 and a 1 horse pump on my pool. 4 hours on the big
pump and 2 hours on the smaller booster for the pool sweep and my electric
bill is only about $50 more than not running the pumps. And the gold
dredgers use these, but the head is only a few feet, not a 100+ For their
air pumps.