On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:22:22 -0400, BAR wrote:

That equates to
70,000,000 people with nothing else to do by yell and scream and vote to
keept the SS retirement they earned

===

As well they should.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:22:22 -0400, BAR wrote:

That equates to
70,000,000 people with nothing else to do by yell and scream and vote to
keept the SS retirement they earned

===

As well they should.

But a lot of those SS people did not put in anywhere enough to pay for an
insurance and annuity policy. Was not the national retirement act. Was
the widows and children's act. To keep them from starving. Was LBJ who
raised the vig and the payouts to pay for an unfunded war. So we are still
paying for SEA.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 23:03:33 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:12:56 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:22:22 -0400, BAR wrote:

That equates to
70,000,000 people with nothing else to do by yell and scream and vote to
keept the SS retirement they earned

===

As well they should.

That didn't stop congress from taxing social security in the 80s

That is the second time that money was taxed. You paid on it when they
collected it too.

I still think we ain't seen nothin yet. As the Ponzi character of
SS/Medicare starts becoming obvious to even the most rabid of bleeding
heart liberals, they will take it out on anyone they think does not
"need" it, no matter how much we put in.
I bet a couple making anywhere near $100k in retirement will have most
if not all of their SS completely taxed away.

===

We'll see.

There are a lot more senior citizens now than there were in the 80s,
and we are organized, and we vote. I think it would be political
suicide for anyone trying to increase SS taxes beyond today's onerous
levels.

At least I don't have New York and New Jersey reaching into my pocket
anymore, and our property taxes are only 25% of what we used to pay in
the NY 'burbs. Dockage is cheaper also. :-)

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 23:36:29 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 23:24:15 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

We'll see.

There are a lot more senior citizens now than there were in the 80s,
and we are organized, and we vote. I think it would be political
suicide for anyone trying to increase SS taxes beyond today's onerous
levels.

At least I don't have New York and New Jersey reaching into my pocket
anymore, and our property taxes are only 25% of what we used to pay in
the NY 'burbs. Dockage is cheaper also. :-)

It all depends on whether the kids start voting their interests.
When their FICA taxes start being more than their income tax, they
might wake up. For some it is more now, they just don't know because
Sammy takes it before they see their check.

===

Isn't it true that the people with good jobs are very much a minority?

The government will eventually "fix" social security by either
fudging the cost of living calculations or eliminating COLA entirely.
That will be followed by a round of hyper inflation. The "official"
rate of inflation is already being fudged a great deal, and hyper
inflation with a weak dollar is the inevitable consequence of long
term defecit spending.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:06:51 -0400, wrote:

The housing bubble and the dot com bubble were just a sneak peak at
the debt and phony money bubble we have coming. It might happen as
soon as Warren Buffett dies and they try to liquidate Berkshire
Hathaway for charity as he promised.

===

The charities will not "liquidate" Berkshire Hathaway by selling off
the holdings. They will divvy up the stock shares and keep most of
them for the income stream, just like Warren does. The stocks are not
just paper, they represent actual ownership of some darn good
companies and a claim on their earnings and free cash flow.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:16:58 -0400, wrote:

The stocks are not
just paper, they represent actual ownership of some darn good
companies and a claim on their earnings and free cash flow.

I know that is the theory but there is a lot of air under most of the
stock prices these days.This has a certain Ponzi aspect too. As long
as more money coming in than is taken out, it does OK.
If there is a significant net loss of money coming into the market it
will crash pretty fast.

===

You're entitled to your opinion of course, and there are no doubt some
over inflated companies out there along with a handfull of outright
frauds not yet discovered. On the other hand there are also some
real captains of industry who make real products and sell them
worldwide. I'm thinking of names like GE, IBM, Intel, Apple, Cisco,
etc. These are companies that not only make solid products and sell
them well, but they also have provable positive cash flows and pay
dividends. There are many others of course, and there are also many
companies in sectors such as energy and transportation with very solid
fundamentals and positive cash flows. Cash flow is a good indicator
because it is real, easy to measure and not easily subject to
accounting slight of hand.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:16:58 -0400, wrote:

The stocks are not
just paper, they represent actual ownership of some darn good
companies and a claim on their earnings and free cash flow.

I know that is the theory but there is a lot of air under most of the
stock prices these days.This has a certain Ponzi aspect too. As long
as more money coming in than is taken out, it does OK.
If there is a significant net loss of money coming into the market it
will crash pretty fast.

===

You're entitled to your opinion of course, and there are no doubt some
over inflated companies out there along with a handfull of outright
frauds not yet discovered. On the other hand there are also some
real captains of industry who make real products and sell them
worldwide. I'm thinking of names like GE, IBM, Intel, Apple, Cisco,
etc. These are companies that not only make solid products and sell
them well, but they also have provable positive cash flows and pay
dividends. There are many others of course, and there are also many
companies in sectors such as energy and transportation with very solid
fundamentals and positive cash flows. Cash flow is a good indicator
because it is real, easy to measure and not easily subject to
accounting slight of hand.

Probably a lot more over inflated than is healthy. Like during the
dot.bomb when Cisco was $80. My co workers were telling me to buy at that
price. Where i was saying it was an $18-25 company. Where I screwed up
when getting laid off at TI was not taking my options money and buying
Cisco puts. They were Canceling semiconductor orders right and left.
Where do you invest are the current time. Banks are paying 0point zip.
Bonds are a looming disaster. With any bump in the interest rate bonds
present value will tank. The administration is pretty much driving the
market, via zero interest rates, and trillions of faux money.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:

if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks

===

I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have
made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend
stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly
untouched.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:

if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks

===

I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have
made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend
stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly
untouched.

The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income.
So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read
somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They
are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the
dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment
decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around
in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are
probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:35:02 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:16:58 -0400, wrote:

The stocks are not
just paper, they represent actual ownership of some darn good
companies and a claim on their earnings and free cash flow.

I know that is the theory but there is a lot of air under most of the
stock prices these days.This has a certain Ponzi aspect too. As long
as more money coming in than is taken out, it does OK.
If there is a significant net loss of money coming into the market it
will crash pretty fast.

===

You're entitled to your opinion of course, and there are no doubt some
over inflated companies out there along with a handfull of outright
frauds not yet discovered. On the other hand there are also some
real captains of industry who make real products and sell them
worldwide. I'm thinking of names like GE, IBM, Intel, Apple, Cisco,
etc. These are companies that not only make solid products and sell
them well, but they also have provable positive cash flows and pay
dividends. There are many others of course, and there are also many
companies in sectors such as energy and transportation with very solid
fundamentals and positive cash flows. Cash flow is a good indicator
because it is real, easy to measure and not easily subject to
accounting slight of hand.

I just think the whole market is way overdue for a correction no
matter what and if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks
there will be an impact on the market.

What makes you think 30m boomers have 401k's? That's ridiculous.
The total 401k participation is about 50 million. And why would they
suddenly liquidate it? Besides, most retirees depend on SS, and the
wealthy ones pass equities to their heirs.
And the 401k market is a small part of total equities from what I can
find out. Funny how the numbers business guards their numbers.