On 7/12/14, 4:20 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:10:04 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/12/14, 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:28:53 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.

I never really got the point of a .357 carbine. I have a Ruger in .44
mag and it is pretty useless too. Not enough power for a hunting rifle
and not enough magazine capacity for a serious self defense weapon.
(also a PITA to load/unload)

I doubt I have fired it a dozen times and when I tried hunting with
it, I lost more rounds than I shot.



I don't hunt, but both the .357 and .44 carbines will drop a deer at at
least 100-125 yards. That's the length of a football field. What are you
hunting down there in SW Florida? Armadillos?

It was in Maryland and a .357 does not meet the minimum energy
requirement for deer. The .44 barely makes it?



I'll keep that mind the next time I'm not hunting deer.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:57:38 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:22:33 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/12/14, 2:28 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:09:51 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Well, I'm sure my revolver would handle the wadcutters but they'd leave
behind a mess. But my new lever gun would not feed them. It wants "full
size" cartridges with an overall length of 40 mm, and maybe .38 special
cartridges measuring 39 mm.
--

You could test it simply by cycling fired cases. The length is the
same.

I am still not sure of what "mess" you are talking about.

People have been shooting wad cutters out of .38s for a century. That
old OM has done a couple thousand.


Perhaps your cylinder tolerances are looser.

There's about a tenth of an inch of free bore in the .357 MAG cylinder
when you use .38 specials and more when you use wadcutters. The free
bore gets fouled with powder and residue from the rounds you fire. When
you switch to .357 MAGS, the rounds seat properly in the fouled
cylinder, but ejecting the shot rounds, the empty cases, is a pain in
the ass.


I have never had powder fouling that did not come out with a quick
pass of a brush. You have exactly the same issue with powder fouling
forward of the case mouth if you are shooting .357 brass. The bullet
itself will not enter into it. Chambers in a revolver are usually
straight bored all the way to the end. That is a good thing for
reloaders since you do not have to size cases for length like you do
on a .45 ACP.
That is still going to be there any time you fire .38 brass in a .357
or a .22 short in a .22lr
You are the first person I have ever heard who thought it was a
burden.

I've also fired hundreds of wad cutters through my Mod 28. My brother, the cop, got them free. Gave
me a big box full. Didn't have any problem with them. Cleaning a gun is about as much fun as
shooting it anyway.

But hey, if the name of the game is to be disagreeable, then the boy has to come up with something!

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 2:36 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 11:44 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 7:01 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 7/11/2014 12:19 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 1:04 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 11:48 AM, True North wrote:
Imagine Johnny showing up at your place with the trailer.
Reminds me of that Chevy Chase movie where the redneck brother in law
pulls up and parks on the street in front of the house.


Herring wouldn't like our street. We have some folks in the
neighborhood with dark skin.


That why you keep all those large caliber firearms?


I don't shoot any "large caliber" firearms. The ones I do shoot are for
inanimate targets and right-wing zombies, of course.

357 magnum and 45 are not target rounds unless your target has flesh and blood.


They can be target rounds. And 357 mag is definitely a large caliber
round! .45 is bigger than a 44 magnum in diameter. Not as powerful, but
definitely a large caliber.


.357 rounds are about the same diameter as 9mm rounds. 9mm is available
with 147 grain and larger bullets. I shoot 125 grain and 158 grain .357.
It's not a large caliber round. I don't shoot .45 caliber.


Oh, and for FlaJim, who is about as ignorant of handguns and ammo as he
is of everything else, here's a vid of a fella shooting .357 Mags in
competition target shooting:

http://tinyurl.com/lyuxe6a

And another:

http://tinyurl.com/ofg4qwt



He is not shooting .357 magnum rounds. He is shooting very light loads.
Probably light for even .38 special. Little kick in the Ruger.


Gee, Bilious, just what *is* a .357 mag round, in your typically uninformed opinion?

I didn't see a "crawl" along the bottom of the vid indicating what powder
and how much was being used, along with the bullet weight. I shoot
standard, manufactured .357 Mag target loads, with 158 grain bullets.
They *are* .357 magnum rounds. There's very little recoil or muzzle flip
with my revolver. I do have some special self-defense rounds with a
lighter grain bullet, but I don't use them for target shooting.

This is yet another of those subjects about which you don't know your ass
from a hole in the ground.


Bull****. A 357 magnum round, unless very lightly loaded is a very
powerful round. You may buy light load target rounds, but other than
being called a 357, they are not magnums. Shoot light load 38 special, and
save more money, so you can pay your debts to society.



The manufactured .357 MAG ammo I buy is not a "light load target round."
It is .357 MAG, with 158 grain bullets and appropriate powder.
You don't have to be shooting 180 grain "buffalo bore" ammo to be using
"real" .357 MAG rounds.

And once again, Bilious, I ask you: just what are the specs in your mind
for a true, real .357 MAG round?

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.




If that revolver does not kick nastily with a 357 round, it is not magnum
loaded. Plus the noise is a lot louder. I rarely shoot a 357 in my Colt.
I shoot wad cutter 38's.

On 7/12/14, 5:15 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 2:36 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 11:44 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 7:01 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 7/11/2014 12:19 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 1:04 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 11:48 AM, True North wrote:
Imagine Johnny showing up at your place with the trailer.
Reminds me of that Chevy Chase movie where the redneck brother in law
pulls up and parks on the street in front of the house.


Herring wouldn't like our street. We have some folks in the
neighborhood with dark skin.


That why you keep all those large caliber firearms?


I don't shoot any "large caliber" firearms. The ones I do shoot are for
inanimate targets and right-wing zombies, of course.

357 magnum and 45 are not target rounds unless your target has flesh and blood.


They can be target rounds. And 357 mag is definitely a large caliber
round! .45 is bigger than a 44 magnum in diameter. Not as powerful, but
definitely a large caliber.


.357 rounds are about the same diameter as 9mm rounds. 9mm is available
with 147 grain and larger bullets. I shoot 125 grain and 158 grain .357.
It's not a large caliber round. I don't shoot .45 caliber.


Oh, and for FlaJim, who is about as ignorant of handguns and ammo as he
is of everything else, here's a vid of a fella shooting .357 Mags in
competition target shooting:

http://tinyurl.com/lyuxe6a

And another:

http://tinyurl.com/ofg4qwt



He is not shooting .357 magnum rounds. He is shooting very light loads.
Probably light for even .38 special. Little kick in the Ruger.


Gee, Bilious, just what *is* a .357 mag round, in your typically uninformed opinion?

I didn't see a "crawl" along the bottom of the vid indicating what powder
and how much was being used, along with the bullet weight. I shoot
standard, manufactured .357 Mag target loads, with 158 grain bullets.
They *are* .357 magnum rounds. There's very little recoil or muzzle flip
with my revolver. I do have some special self-defense rounds with a
lighter grain bullet, but I don't use them for target shooting.

This is yet another of those subjects about which you don't know your ass
from a hole in the ground.


Bull****. A 357 magnum round, unless very lightly loaded is a very
powerful round. You may buy light load target rounds, but other than
being called a 357, they are not magnums. Shoot light load 38 special, and
save more money, so you can pay your debts to society.



The manufactured .357 MAG ammo I buy is not a "light load target round."
It is .357 MAG, with 158 grain bullets and appropriate powder.
You don't have to be shooting 180 grain "buffalo bore" ammo to be using
"real" .357 MAG rounds.

And once again, Bilious, I ask you: just what are the specs in your mind
for a true, real .357 MAG round?

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.




If that revolver does not kick nastily with a 357 round, it is not magnum
loaded. Plus the noise is a lot louder. I rarely shoot a 357 in my Colt.
I shoot wad cutter 38's.



Right, Bilious. As usual, you don't know what you are talking about. And
it isn't my problem that you are too weak-wristed to control a good .357
MAG revolver.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On 7/12/14, 8:14 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:18:21 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/12/14, 4:10 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:28:53 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.

I never really got the point of a .357 carbine. I have a Ruger in .44
mag and it is pretty useless too. Not enough power for a hunting rifle
and not enough magazine capacity for a serious self defense weapon.
(also a PITA to load/unload)

I doubt I have fired it a dozen times and when I tried hunting with
it, I lost more rounds than I shot.



I don't hunt, but both the .357 and .44 carbines will drop a deer at at
least 100-125 yards. That's the length of a football field. What are you
hunting down there in SW Florida? Armadillos?





This shot's for you, Gregg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPBKt3fFCw

Plenty of muzzle flip there, even with a heavy 6-7" barrel and a
muzzle brake.. THAT looks like a real .357
Those other guys were shooting .38 class ammo, probably on the order
of the wad cutters I used to load.

BTW have you ever seen that guy who does stuff like that with a 2"?



He's shooting out of a tripod, so his grip on the pistol isn't ideal for
controlling flip.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On 7/12/14, 9:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 20:57:43 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/12/14, 8:14 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:18:21 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/12/14, 4:10 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:28:53 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.

I never really got the point of a .357 carbine. I have a Ruger in .44
mag and it is pretty useless too. Not enough power for a hunting rifle
and not enough magazine capacity for a serious self defense weapon.
(also a PITA to load/unload)

I doubt I have fired it a dozen times and when I tried hunting with
it, I lost more rounds than I shot.



I don't hunt, but both the .357 and .44 carbines will drop a deer at at
least 100-125 yards. That's the length of a football field. What are you
hunting down there in SW Florida? Armadillos?





This shot's for you, Gregg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPBKt3fFCw

Plenty of muzzle flip there, even with a heavy 6-7" barrel and a
muzzle brake.. THAT looks like a real .357
Those other guys were shooting .38 class ammo, probably on the order
of the wad cutters I used to load.

BTW have you ever seen that guy who does stuff like that with a 2"?



He's shooting out of a tripod, so his grip on the pistol isn't ideal for
controlling flip.

Huh? I would think he was really holding it down tight.

It is still an accurate representation of a full power .357 load.


I dunno. I only get a bit of muzzle flip when I shoot "full power .357
loads. Maybe it's my grip of death.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On 7/12/2014 8:14 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:18:21 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/12/14, 4:10 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:28:53 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.

I never really got the point of a .357 carbine. I have a Ruger in .44
mag and it is pretty useless too. Not enough power for a hunting rifle
and not enough magazine capacity for a serious self defense weapon.
(also a PITA to load/unload)

I doubt I have fired it a dozen times and when I tried hunting with
it, I lost more rounds than I shot.



I don't hunt, but both the .357 and .44 carbines will drop a deer at at
least 100-125 yards. That's the length of a football field. What are you
hunting down there in SW Florida? Armadillos?





This shot's for you, Gregg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPBKt3fFCw

Plenty of muzzle flip there, even with a heavy 6-7" barrel and a
muzzle brake.. THAT looks like a real .357
Those other guys were shooting .38 class ammo, probably on the order
of the wad cutters I used to load.

BTW have you ever seen that guy who does stuff like that with a 2"?



I've posted this before but here's a good view of the recoil differences
in .38 Special and .357 Magnum rounds. I am shooting a S&W 627 with a
5-inch barrel loaded with alternating .38 Special and .357 Magnum
rounds. No question which is which.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF00rLj8AEY

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 5:15 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 2:36 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 11:44 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 7:01 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 7/11/2014 12:19 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 1:04 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 11:48 AM, True North wrote:
Imagine Johnny showing up at your place with the trailer.
Reminds me of that Chevy Chase movie where the redneck brother in law
pulls up and parks on the street in front of the house.


Herring wouldn't like our street. We have some folks in the
neighborhood with dark skin.


That why you keep all those large caliber firearms?


I don't shoot any "large caliber" firearms. The ones I do shoot are for
inanimate targets and right-wing zombies, of course.

357 magnum and 45 are not target rounds unless your target has flesh and blood.


They can be target rounds. And 357 mag is definitely a large caliber
round! .45 is bigger than a 44 magnum in diameter. Not as powerful, but
definitely a large caliber.


.357 rounds are about the same diameter as 9mm rounds. 9mm is available
with 147 grain and larger bullets. I shoot 125 grain and 158 grain .357.
It's not a large caliber round. I don't shoot .45 caliber.


Oh, and for FlaJim, who is about as ignorant of handguns and ammo as he
is of everything else, here's a vid of a fella shooting .357 Mags in
competition target shooting:

http://tinyurl.com/lyuxe6a

And another:

http://tinyurl.com/ofg4qwt



He is not shooting .357 magnum rounds. He is shooting very light loads.
Probably light for even .38 special. Little kick in the Ruger.


Gee, Bilious, just what *is* a .357 mag round, in your typically uninformed opinion?

I didn't see a "crawl" along the bottom of the vid indicating what powder
and how much was being used, along with the bullet weight. I shoot
standard, manufactured .357 Mag target loads, with 158 grain bullets.
They *are* .357 magnum rounds. There's very little recoil or muzzle flip
with my revolver. I do have some special self-defense rounds with a
lighter grain bullet, but I don't use them for target shooting.

This is yet another of those subjects about which you don't know your ass
from a hole in the ground.


Bull****. A 357 magnum round, unless very lightly loaded is a very
powerful round. You may buy light load target rounds, but other than
being called a 357, they are not magnums. Shoot light load 38 special, and
save more money, so you can pay your debts to society.



The manufactured .357 MAG ammo I buy is not a "light load target round."
It is .357 MAG, with 158 grain bullets and appropriate powder.
You don't have to be shooting 180 grain "buffalo bore" ammo to be using
"real" .357 MAG rounds.

And once again, Bilious, I ask you: just what are the specs in your mind
for a true, real .357 MAG round?

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.




If that revolver does not kick nastily with a 357 round, it is not magnum
loaded. Plus the noise is a lot louder. I rarely shoot a 357 in my Colt.
I shoot wad cutter 38's.



Right, Bilious. As usual, you don't know what you are talking about. And
it isn't my problem that you are too weak-wristed to control a good .357 MAG revolver.


Yup, you are Jack Armstrong strong. Mr. atlas.

On 7/12/14, 11:59 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 5:15 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 2:36 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 11:44 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 7:01 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 7/11/2014 12:19 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 1:04 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 11:48 AM, True North wrote:
Imagine Johnny showing up at your place with the trailer.
Reminds me of that Chevy Chase movie where the redneck brother in law
pulls up and parks on the street in front of the house.


Herring wouldn't like our street. We have some folks in the
neighborhood with dark skin.


That why you keep all those large caliber firearms?


I don't shoot any "large caliber" firearms. The ones I do shoot are for
inanimate targets and right-wing zombies, of course.

357 magnum and 45 are not target rounds unless your target has flesh and blood.


They can be target rounds. And 357 mag is definitely a large caliber
round! .45 is bigger than a 44 magnum in diameter. Not as powerful, but
definitely a large caliber.


.357 rounds are about the same diameter as 9mm rounds. 9mm is available
with 147 grain and larger bullets. I shoot 125 grain and 158 grain .357.
It's not a large caliber round. I don't shoot .45 caliber.


Oh, and for FlaJim, who is about as ignorant of handguns and ammo as he
is of everything else, here's a vid of a fella shooting .357 Mags in
competition target shooting:

http://tinyurl.com/lyuxe6a

And another:

http://tinyurl.com/ofg4qwt



He is not shooting .357 magnum rounds. He is shooting very light loads.
Probably light for even .38 special. Little kick in the Ruger.


Gee, Bilious, just what *is* a .357 mag round, in your typically uninformed opinion?

I didn't see a "crawl" along the bottom of the vid indicating what powder
and how much was being used, along with the bullet weight. I shoot
standard, manufactured .357 Mag target loads, with 158 grain bullets.
They *are* .357 magnum rounds. There's very little recoil or muzzle flip
with my revolver. I do have some special self-defense rounds with a
lighter grain bullet, but I don't use them for target shooting.

This is yet another of those subjects about which you don't know your ass
from a hole in the ground.


Bull****. A 357 magnum round, unless very lightly loaded is a very
powerful round. You may buy light load target rounds, but other than
being called a 357, they are not magnums. Shoot light load 38 special, and
save more money, so you can pay your debts to society.



The manufactured .357 MAG ammo I buy is not a "light load target round."
It is .357 MAG, with 158 grain bullets and appropriate powder.
You don't have to be shooting 180 grain "buffalo bore" ammo to be using
"real" .357 MAG rounds.

And once again, Bilious, I ask you: just what are the specs in your mind
for a true, real .357 MAG round?

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.




If that revolver does not kick nastily with a 357 round, it is not magnum
loaded. Plus the noise is a lot louder. I rarely shoot a 357 in my Colt.
I shoot wad cutter 38's.



Right, Bilious. As usual, you don't know what you are talking about. And
it isn't my problem that you are too weak-wristed to control a good .357 MAG revolver.


Yup, you are Jack Armstrong strong. Mr. atlas.


You still haven't told us what a "real" .357 MAG round is, in terms of
bullet weight, powder charge, velocity, impact, et cetera.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 22:50:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 7/12/2014 8:14 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:18:21 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/12/14, 4:10 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/12/14, 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:28:53 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I shoot .38 specials and .357 mag rounds in my revolver. I'll stick to
the .357 mags for my rifle.

I never really got the point of a .357 carbine. I have a Ruger in .44
mag and it is pretty useless too. Not enough power for a hunting rifle
and not enough magazine capacity for a serious self defense weapon.
(also a PITA to load/unload)

I doubt I have fired it a dozen times and when I tried hunting with
it, I lost more rounds than I shot.



I don't hunt, but both the .357 and .44 carbines will drop a deer at at
least 100-125 yards. That's the length of a football field. What are you
hunting down there in SW Florida? Armadillos?





This shot's for you, Gregg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPBKt3fFCw

Plenty of muzzle flip there, even with a heavy 6-7" barrel and a
muzzle brake.. THAT looks like a real .357
Those other guys were shooting .38 class ammo, probably on the order
of the wad cutters I used to load.

BTW have you ever seen that guy who does stuff like that with a 2"?



I've posted this before but here's a good view of the recoil differences
in .38 Special and .357 Magnum rounds. I am shooting a S&W 627 with a
5-inch barrel loaded with alternating .38 Special and .357 Magnum
rounds. No question which is which.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF00rLj8AEY

Krause would say you just got extremely limp wristed when the .357 rounds cycled up.