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Keeping that family safe
On 7/11/2014 1:17 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 12:04:47 -0500, Califbill wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Most of our mass shootings are in gun controlled cities and involve the Drug War. Are you only concerned about mass shootings by nut cases? JP only cares about the shootings that make the news. It is not news when black people shoot each other so he doesn't care. If someone said "guns don't kill people, blacks and hispanics with guns kill people" they would be called racist ... but it would still be statistically true. If you take them out of the totals we cut the murder rate (per 100,000) in half. "Shallow" |
Keeping that family safe
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 13:17:51 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 12:04:47 -0500, Califbill wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Most of our mass shootings are in gun controlled cities and involve the Drug War. Are you only concerned about mass shootings by nut cases? JP only cares about the shootings that make the news. It is not news when black people shoot each other so he doesn't care. If someone said "guns don't kill people, blacks and hispanics with guns kill people" they would be called racist ... but it would still be statistically true. If you take them out of the totals we cut the murder rate (per 100,000) in half. It's only racist if I say it. It's disregarded if someone else says it, 'cause the truth hurts. |
Keeping that family safe
On 7/11/14, 2:11 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
It's only racist if I say it. It's disregarded if someone else says it, 'cause the truth hurts. snerk You've got "smug, self-satisfied, racist asshole" down pat, Herring. -- Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student, anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government last year for no reason. |
Keeping that family safe
On 7/11/2014 2:43 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 14:11:17 -0400, Poquito Loco wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 13:17:51 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 12:04:47 -0500, Califbill wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Most of our mass shootings are in gun controlled cities and involve the Drug War. Are you only concerned about mass shootings by nut cases? JP only cares about the shootings that make the news. It is not news when black people shoot each other so he doesn't care. If someone said "guns don't kill people, blacks and hispanics with guns kill people" they would be called racist ... but it would still be statistically true. If you take them out of the totals we cut the murder rate (per 100,000) in half. It's only racist if I say it. It's disregarded if someone else says it, 'cause the truth hurts. I find it interesting that there is a black guy on CNN as we speak saying that the surge of violence in New York this summer is because they stopped "stop and frisk" and that although black people were affected by that policy, they are affected more by this surge of violent crime, since they are disproportionalely represented as victims. I saw a black politician from NY saying the same thing yesterday... I did not recognize his name so I don't remember it... |
Keeping that family safe
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 12:04:46 -0500, Califbill
wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:58:34 -0500, Califbill wrote: jps wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:49:19 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:38:25 -0700, jps wrote: I'm waiting for a Conservative Senator's kid to be shot accidentally so that congress might reconsider closing sales loopholes and instituting a mental health database and policy with some teeth. === Be careful what you ask for, that's my advice. It might turn out to be an example of the cure being worse than the disease. The vast majority of shootings occur in inner city ghettos and are drug related. Those facts are indisputable whether we like it or not. Do you really think that all of these drug selling gang members are going to show up in a mental health database? More likely you or your neighbor's wife, and the label will follow you around forever. The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. Actually murders over 16,000. Only 11000 via firearm. So, 66%+ of murders are committed by gun. Very impressive. Means guns are not the problem! Means guns make it easier to commit murder. |
Keeping that family safe
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 14:43:02 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 14:11:17 -0400, Poquito Loco wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 13:17:51 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 12:04:47 -0500, Califbill wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Most of our mass shootings are in gun controlled cities and involve the Drug War. Are you only concerned about mass shootings by nut cases? JP only cares about the shootings that make the news. It is not news when black people shoot each other so he doesn't care. If someone said "guns don't kill people, blacks and hispanics with guns kill people" they would be called racist ... but it would still be statistically true. If you take them out of the totals we cut the murder rate (per 100,000) in half. It's only racist if I say it. It's disregarded if someone else says it, 'cause the truth hurts. I find it interesting that there is a black guy on CNN as we speak saying that the surge of violence in New York this summer is because they stopped "stop and frisk" and that although black people were affected by that policy, they are affected more by this surge of violent crime, since they are disproportionalely represented as victims. If it's blacks it's a 'so what' from jps and Krause. To mention it is racist. |
Keeping that family safe
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 08:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 7/11/2014 7:55 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 6:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 2:11 AM, jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Greg said that getting rid of most of their guns has had little effect on the slope of the murder rate in Australia. Your rebuttal was that Australia has virtually eliminated mass shootings. If both statements are true, the elimination of guns has had little effect on Australia's murder rate. I think that was his point. One thing that is totally ignored in this great gun debate is the cultural and ethnic diversity of the United States compared to any other country on the planet. It has both positive and negative ramifications on our society. The "Great Melting Pot" isn't utopia. Guns don't create racial intolerance, conflicts based on religious beliefs, conflicts of cultural or ethnic traditions or the inner city gang wars that Wayne accurately points out represents the vast majority of gun related deaths. Personally I also think that the slow shredding of unifying traditions that have been challenged by groups focused only on their belief system serves to further polarize the country and puts an emphasis on our cultural, religious and ethnic diversity as we slide into a "progressive" liberal never-never land. We are slowly removing the measuring sticks of our societal structure that includes the good with the bad and replacing it with a free-for-all "anything goes" mentality that is increasingly based on an entitlement philosophy. So, going back to guns. They are not the *reason* for our problems. My guess is that JPS believes guns do not make a country safer. I agree with him. As a 65 year old living in an increasingly drug infested society and a growing expectation of "what's your's is mine" ... I feel somewhat safer having a last resort means of self defense available. I never felt that way when I was younger. Not to make light of a serious issue but it's like having a fire extinguisher. Hopefully and statistically you will never need it but if you should, it could save lives and property. A serious answer to a serious concern. I appreciate that. Unfortunately, in the hands of someone less stable, that same weapon is more likely to be used against themselves, a family member or someone they know. In terms of odds, homes with guns are something like 7 times more likely to have a gun-related death or injury, either by accident or on purpuse. I do not believe this is the result of the environment immediately outside the home, unless you reside in the worst parts of Chicago where the danger outside may eclipse the danger a weapon poses inside the home. |
Keeping that family safe
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Keeping that family safe
On 7/11/2014 6:17 PM, jps wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 08:05:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 7/11/2014 7:55 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 6:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 2:11 AM, jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Greg said that getting rid of most of their guns has had little effect on the slope of the murder rate in Australia. Your rebuttal was that Australia has virtually eliminated mass shootings. If both statements are true, the elimination of guns has had little effect on Australia's murder rate. I think that was his point. One thing that is totally ignored in this great gun debate is the cultural and ethnic diversity of the United States compared to any other country on the planet. It has both positive and negative ramifications on our society. The "Great Melting Pot" isn't utopia. Guns don't create racial intolerance, conflicts based on religious beliefs, conflicts of cultural or ethnic traditions or the inner city gang wars that Wayne accurately points out represents the vast majority of gun related deaths. Personally I also think that the slow shredding of unifying traditions that have been challenged by groups focused only on their belief system serves to further polarize the country and puts an emphasis on our cultural, religious and ethnic diversity as we slide into a "progressive" liberal never-never land. We are slowly removing the measuring sticks of our societal structure that includes the good with the bad and replacing it with a free-for-all "anything goes" mentality that is increasingly based on an entitlement philosophy. So, going back to guns. They are not the *reason* for our problems. My guess is that JPS believes guns do not make a country safer. I agree with him. As a 65 year old living in an increasingly drug infested society and a growing expectation of "what's your's is mine" ... I feel somewhat safer having a last resort means of self defense available. I never felt that way when I was younger. Not to make light of a serious issue but it's like having a fire extinguisher. Hopefully and statistically you will never need it but if you should, it could save lives and property. A serious answer to a serious concern. I appreciate that. Unfortunately, in the hands of someone less stable, that same weapon is more likely to be used against themselves, a family member or someone they know. In terms of odds, homes with guns are something like 7 times more likely to have a gun-related death or injury, either by accident or on purpuse. I do not believe this is the result of the environment immediately outside the home, unless you reside in the worst parts of Chicago where the danger outside may eclipse the danger a weapon poses inside the home. ....and homes with stairs are more than 95% more likely to have someone injured falling down stairs... Either way, your second arguement is bs too, if I lived in Chicago, I would be much more likely to keep my gun out and loaded than say, your imaginary gated community... |
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