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Keeping that family safe
On 7/11/2014 6:55 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/11/14, 6:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 2:11 AM, jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Greg said that getting rid of most of their guns has had little effect on the slope of the murder rate in Australia. Your rebuttal was that Australia has virtually eliminated mass shootings. If both statements are true, the elimination of guns has had little effect on Australia's murder rate. I think that was his point. One thing that is totally ignored in this great gun debate is the cultural and ethnic diversity of the United States compared to any other country on the planet. It has both positive and negative ramifications on our society. The "Great Melting Pot" isn't utopia. Guns don't create racial intolerance, conflicts based on religious beliefs, conflicts of cultural or ethnic traditions or the inner city gang wars that Wayne accurately points out represents the vast majority of gun related deaths. Personally I also think that the slow shredding of unifying traditions that have been challenged by groups focused only on their belief system serves to further polarize the country and puts an emphasis on our cultural, religious and ethnic diversity as we slide into a "progressive" liberal never-never land. We are slowly removing the measuring sticks of our societal structure that includes the good with the bad and replacing it with a free-for-all "anything goes" mentality that is increasingly based on an entitlement philosophy. So, going back to guns. They are not the *reason* for our problems. My guess is that JPS believes guns do not make a country safer. I agree with him. What would make a country safer? -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Keeping that family safe
On 7/11/2014 7:33 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/11/2014 8:10 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 8:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 7:55 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 6:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 2:11 AM, jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Greg said that getting rid of most of their guns has had little effect on the slope of the murder rate in Australia. Your rebuttal was that Australia has virtually eliminated mass shootings. If both statements are true, the elimination of guns has had little effect on Australia's murder rate. I think that was his point. One thing that is totally ignored in this great gun debate is the cultural and ethnic diversity of the United States compared to any other country on the planet. It has both positive and negative ramifications on our society. The "Great Melting Pot" isn't utopia. Guns don't create racial intolerance, conflicts based on religious beliefs, conflicts of cultural or ethnic traditions or the inner city gang wars that Wayne accurately points out represents the vast majority of gun related deaths. Personally I also think that the slow shredding of unifying traditions that have been challenged by groups focused only on their belief system serves to further polarize the country and puts an emphasis on our cultural, religious and ethnic diversity as we slide into a "progressive" liberal never-never land. We are slowly removing the measuring sticks of our societal structure that includes the good with the bad and replacing it with a free-for-all "anything goes" mentality that is increasingly based on an entitlement philosophy. So, going back to guns. They are not the *reason* for our problems. My guess is that JPS believes guns do not make a country safer. I agree with him. As a 65 year old living in an increasingly drug infested society and a growing expectation of "what's your's is mine" ... I feel somewhat safer having a last resort means of self defense available. I never felt that way when I was younger. Not to make light of a serious issue but it's like having a fire extinguisher. Hopefully and statistically you will never need it but if you should, it could save lives and property. In *this* country, you are assuredly correct, but that's not my point. Not to sound like Wayne LaPierre (who goes to extremes) there are *many* things in our society that we'd be safer without but it's not practical or beneficial to eliminate them. As long as we have gun toting criminals, out of their mind meth addicts and an "entertainment" industry that glorifies killing, blood and guts that increasingly desensitizes people .... especially young people ... we are all at some level of risk of becoming a victim. The risk may small and not as high in all areas but it still exists. I feel a little "safer" knowing I may be able to protect myself and my wife. In other words, if we became the victim of a violent crime and my wife was seriously hurt or even killed ... I don't think I could live with myself knowing that I may have been able to prevent it. If some of our societal problems were addressed maybe there would be no need for guns in the interest of self defense but we are moving in the wrong direction to achieve that. You've won over Krause. Will JPS be next? -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Keeping that family safe
On 7/11/2014 10:33 AM, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 7/11/2014 7:33 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 8:10 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 8:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 7:55 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 6:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 2:11 AM, jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Greg said that getting rid of most of their guns has had little effect on the slope of the murder rate in Australia. Your rebuttal was that Australia has virtually eliminated mass shootings. If both statements are true, the elimination of guns has had little effect on Australia's murder rate. I think that was his point. One thing that is totally ignored in this great gun debate is the cultural and ethnic diversity of the United States compared to any other country on the planet. It has both positive and negative ramifications on our society. The "Great Melting Pot" isn't utopia. Guns don't create racial intolerance, conflicts based on religious beliefs, conflicts of cultural or ethnic traditions or the inner city gang wars that Wayne accurately points out represents the vast majority of gun related deaths. Personally I also think that the slow shredding of unifying traditions that have been challenged by groups focused only on their belief system serves to further polarize the country and puts an emphasis on our cultural, religious and ethnic diversity as we slide into a "progressive" liberal never-never land. We are slowly removing the measuring sticks of our societal structure that includes the good with the bad and replacing it with a free-for-all "anything goes" mentality that is increasingly based on an entitlement philosophy. So, going back to guns. They are not the *reason* for our problems. My guess is that JPS believes guns do not make a country safer. I agree with him. As a 65 year old living in an increasingly drug infested society and a growing expectation of "what's your's is mine" ... I feel somewhat safer having a last resort means of self defense available. I never felt that way when I was younger. Not to make light of a serious issue but it's like having a fire extinguisher. Hopefully and statistically you will never need it but if you should, it could save lives and property. In *this* country, you are assuredly correct, but that's not my point. Not to sound like Wayne LaPierre (who goes to extremes) there are *many* things in our society that we'd be safer without but it's not practical or beneficial to eliminate them. As long as we have gun toting criminals, out of their mind meth addicts and an "entertainment" industry that glorifies killing, blood and guts that increasingly desensitizes people .... especially young people ... we are all at some level of risk of becoming a victim. The risk may small and not as high in all areas but it still exists. I feel a little "safer" knowing I may be able to protect myself and my wife. In other words, if we became the victim of a violent crime and my wife was seriously hurt or even killed ... I don't think I could live with myself knowing that I may have been able to prevent it. If some of our societal problems were addressed maybe there would be no need for guns in the interest of self defense but we are moving in the wrong direction to achieve that. You've won over Krause. Will JPS be next? I am not trying to "win over" anybody however I take exception sometimes to people who, because they oppose an issue, think *everyone* should be in opposition also. I think if some people paid more attention to how they influence others for whom they are responsible and less attention to what everyone else is doing we'd all be better off. |
Keeping that family safe
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 09:33:50 -0500, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 7/11/2014 7:33 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 8:10 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 8:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 7:55 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 6:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 2:11 AM, jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Greg said that getting rid of most of their guns has had little effect on the slope of the murder rate in Australia. Your rebuttal was that Australia has virtually eliminated mass shootings. If both statements are true, the elimination of guns has had little effect on Australia's murder rate. I think that was his point. One thing that is totally ignored in this great gun debate is the cultural and ethnic diversity of the United States compared to any other country on the planet. It has both positive and negative ramifications on our society. The "Great Melting Pot" isn't utopia. Guns don't create racial intolerance, conflicts based on religious beliefs, conflicts of cultural or ethnic traditions or the inner city gang wars that Wayne accurately points out represents the vast majority of gun related deaths. Personally I also think that the slow shredding of unifying traditions that have been challenged by groups focused only on their belief system serves to further polarize the country and puts an emphasis on our cultural, religious and ethnic diversity as we slide into a "progressive" liberal never-never land. We are slowly removing the measuring sticks of our societal structure that includes the good with the bad and replacing it with a free-for-all "anything goes" mentality that is increasingly based on an entitlement philosophy. So, going back to guns. They are not the *reason* for our problems. My guess is that JPS believes guns do not make a country safer. I agree with him. As a 65 year old living in an increasingly drug infested society and a growing expectation of "what's your's is mine" ... I feel somewhat safer having a last resort means of self defense available. I never felt that way when I was younger. Not to make light of a serious issue but it's like having a fire extinguisher. Hopefully and statistically you will never need it but if you should, it could save lives and property. In *this* country, you are assuredly correct, but that's not my point. Not to sound like Wayne LaPierre (who goes to extremes) there are *many* things in our society that we'd be safer without but it's not practical or beneficial to eliminate them. As long as we have gun toting criminals, out of their mind meth addicts and an "entertainment" industry that glorifies killing, blood and guts that increasingly desensitizes people .... especially young people ... we are all at some level of risk of becoming a victim. The risk may small and not as high in all areas but it still exists. I feel a little "safer" knowing I may be able to protect myself and my wife. In other words, if we became the victim of a violent crime and my wife was seriously hurt or even killed ... I don't think I could live with myself knowing that I may have been able to prevent it. If some of our societal problems were addressed maybe there would be no need for guns in the interest of self defense but we are moving in the wrong direction to achieve that. You've won over Krause. Will JPS be next? 'Sound reasoning' is not in either's ammo bag. |
Keeping that family safe
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 09:19:44 -0500, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 7/11/2014 6:55 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 6:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 2:11 AM, jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Greg said that getting rid of most of their guns has had little effect on the slope of the murder rate in Australia. Your rebuttal was that Australia has virtually eliminated mass shootings. If both statements are true, the elimination of guns has had little effect on Australia's murder rate. I think that was his point. One thing that is totally ignored in this great gun debate is the cultural and ethnic diversity of the United States compared to any other country on the planet. It has both positive and negative ramifications on our society. The "Great Melting Pot" isn't utopia. Guns don't create racial intolerance, conflicts based on religious beliefs, conflicts of cultural or ethnic traditions or the inner city gang wars that Wayne accurately points out represents the vast majority of gun related deaths. Personally I also think that the slow shredding of unifying traditions that have been challenged by groups focused only on their belief system serves to further polarize the country and puts an emphasis on our cultural, religious and ethnic diversity as we slide into a "progressive" liberal never-never land. We are slowly removing the measuring sticks of our societal structure that includes the good with the bad and replacing it with a free-for-all "anything goes" mentality that is increasingly based on an entitlement philosophy. So, going back to guns. They are not the *reason* for our problems. My guess is that JPS believes guns do not make a country safer. I agree with him. What would make a country safer? Border security, condoms or sterilization, mandatory high school education, drug tests for welfare recipients, voter ID's, and others. |
Keeping that family safe
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Keeping that family safe
On 7/11/2014 9:56 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 09:19:44 -0500, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote: On 7/11/2014 6:55 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 7/11/14, 6:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 7/11/2014 2:11 AM, jps wrote: On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:40:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:02:33 -0700, jps wrote: The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. So you think if there were no guns, there would be no suicides? Just look at Japan, one of your ideal countries. No guns and a much higher suicide rate than the US. The more you drill down on the numbers, the worse your case gets. I have pointed out Australia many times. They got rid of most of their guns and it had very little effect of on the slope of their murder rate. Well, we certainly did shift real quick there, eh? Went from 31,000 gun deaths a year coming out of my ass to, wouldn't it happen anyway? And you're dead wrong about Australia, they've virtually eliminated mass shootings from their society. My point is, if guns make a country safer, we should be the safest ****ing country on the planet. They don't and we're not. Greg said that getting rid of most of their guns has had little effect on the slope of the murder rate in Australia. Your rebuttal was that Australia has virtually eliminated mass shootings. If both statements are true, the elimination of guns has had little effect on Australia's murder rate. I think that was his point. One thing that is totally ignored in this great gun debate is the cultural and ethnic diversity of the United States compared to any other country on the planet. It has both positive and negative ramifications on our society. The "Great Melting Pot" isn't utopia. Guns don't create racial intolerance, conflicts based on religious beliefs, conflicts of cultural or ethnic traditions or the inner city gang wars that Wayne accurately points out represents the vast majority of gun related deaths. Personally I also think that the slow shredding of unifying traditions that have been challenged by groups focused only on their belief system serves to further polarize the country and puts an emphasis on our cultural, religious and ethnic diversity as we slide into a "progressive" liberal never-never land. We are slowly removing the measuring sticks of our societal structure that includes the good with the bad and replacing it with a free-for-all "anything goes" mentality that is increasingly based on an entitlement philosophy. So, going back to guns. They are not the *reason* for our problems. My guess is that JPS believes guns do not make a country safer. I agree with him. What would make a country safer? Border security, condoms or sterilization, mandatory high school education, drug tests for welfare recipients, voter ID's, and others. I think you are on the right track -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Keeping that family safe
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Keeping that family safe
jps wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 00:58:34 -0500, Califbill wrote: jps wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:49:19 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:38:25 -0700, jps wrote: I'm waiting for a Conservative Senator's kid to be shot accidentally so that congress might reconsider closing sales loopholes and instituting a mental health database and policy with some teeth. === Be careful what you ask for, that's my advice. It might turn out to be an example of the cure being worse than the disease. The vast majority of shootings occur in inner city ghettos and are drug related. Those facts are indisputable whether we like it or not. Do you really think that all of these drug selling gang members are going to show up in a mental health database? More likely you or your neighbor's wife, and the label will follow you around forever. The vast majority are suicides, somewhere around 17 - 19,000 a year. Murders are around 11,000 a year. Actually murders over 16,000. Only 11000 via firearm. So, 66%+ of murders are committed by gun. Very impressive. Means guns are not the problem! |
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