On 5/21/2014 6:15 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 5/21/14, 12:38 AM, Tim wrote:
On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 1:17:43 PM UTC-7, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 5/20/14, 2:41 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:

A few pictures with a bit of narrative to show what a Bluegrass
Festival is all about. First things

first - getting the trailer ready to go and showing the rear end to
the neighbors:





Wow, the Traveling Herring discovers bluegrass music 50 years after its

heyday, and long after the strictly purely acoustic sound was shattered

by amplified instruments.



Are you also posting on rec.overcommercialized.bluegrass?

Oh for pity sake, Harry. Just because you don't appreciate bluegrass
doesn't mean you need to condemn those who do.

Bluegrass is very old folk music and traditional. That's why some
bluegrass places won't allow electric instruments. Besides, if there
wasn't bluegrass, there wouldn't be any Country/Western or electric
instrument filled rock.


And once again, you've come to the wrong conclusion. I did not say or
imply I didn't like bluegrass music. I find it humorous Herring
"discovered" it 50 years after its heyday. I'm not a fan of electrified
bluegrass.

Just so we don't misunderstand you. What is your take on bluegrass music?

On Tue, 20 May 2014 21:26:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


possible..."Thanks, Truck!"

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ng1/BowTie.jpg

Wow. Great report, John. I'm glad y'all had a great time. There's bluegrass fests all through the mid-western state parks through the summer, and one thing I always liked is in the various campsites, there's always groups of people gathering around one place or another with their instruments singing and playing. A lot of great talent among the crowd alone. Strangers become friends really quickly.

I've never gone away from a blue grass concert or camp disappointed. There's too much fun to be had.

Yup, lots of jamming going on at Gettysburg also. Many of the professionals join the jammers at the
campsites and sound doggone good!

On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:09:31 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:51:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I like and liked pre-amplified bluegrass.

I am confused by "pre amplified bluegrass"
Do you mean hearing a group in a venue so small that they did not need
amps? I guess TV is out for you totally.
Everyone likes a small room performance. I even enjoyed Barry Manilow
at Shady Grove in Gathersburg (small dinner theater) and I hate the
dude. He did work pretty hard to put on a show. You have to when you
go from Mandy on the radio everywhere to dinner theater.

There is a lot of bluegrass played in a small venue. It's usually called 'jamming'. A bunch of
pickers get together and the only folks who can hear are sitting around right around the campsite.

It would be pretty hard for a thousand folks in lawn chairs to hear anything that wasn't amplified.

On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:42:58 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:24:45 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:09:31 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:51:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I like and liked pre-amplified bluegrass.

I am confused by "pre amplified bluegrass"
Do you mean hearing a group in a venue so small that they did not need
amps? I guess TV is out for you totally.
Everyone likes a small room performance. I even enjoyed Barry Manilow
at Shady Grove in Gathersburg (small dinner theater) and I hate the
dude. He did work pretty hard to put on a show. You have to when you
go from Mandy on the radio everywhere to dinner theater.

There is a lot of bluegrass played in a small venue. It's usually called 'jamming'. A bunch of
pickers get together and the only folks who can hear are sitting around right around the campsite.

It would be pretty hard for a thousand folks in lawn chairs to hear anything that wasn't amplified.

That was my point.

I know. I was just explaining it a bit more for YKW.

On 5/21/2014 3:24 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:09:31 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:51:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I like and liked pre-amplified bluegrass.

I am confused by "pre amplified bluegrass"
Do you mean hearing a group in a venue so small that they did not need
amps? I guess TV is out for you totally.
Everyone likes a small room performance. I even enjoyed Barry Manilow
at Shady Grove in Gathersburg (small dinner theater) and I hate the
dude. He did work pretty hard to put on a show. You have to when you
go from Mandy on the radio everywhere to dinner theater.

There is a lot of bluegrass played in a small venue. It's usually called 'jamming'. A bunch of
pickers get together and the only folks who can hear are sitting around right around the campsite.

It would be pretty hard for a thousand folks in lawn chairs to hear anything that wasn't amplified.



There's a big difference in what you consider "amplified".

Back in the late 1800's and up to about 1920 or so acoustic flat top
guitars were small in size. They were called "Parlor" guitars and had
strings made of animal intestines or "Gut Strings". It wasn't until
the 1920's that steel strings came into play. Steel stringed guitars
are louder but had to be built and braced differently to tolerate the
much higher string tension of steel strings. We seen more than one
rare, vintage guitar originally built for gut strings (you can use nylon
strings on them now) that were ruined because the owner tried putting
steel strings on them. Rips the bridge right off the guitar, often
taking part of the top with it. Tuned to pitch, steel strings generate
about 200lbs or more of tension that is trying to rip the bridge off the
guitar.

Anyway, when the Big Band era started in the 1920's and 1930's acoustic
guitars -- both flat tops and archtops simply weren't loud enough to be
heard along with the horns, reed instruments, drums etc. in the bands.
One of the first electrics was an acoustic archtop on which a pickup
taken from a lapsteel guitar was mounted. It became the famous "Charlie
Christian" pickup and guitar configuration. It's replacement was
another large, strange magnetic pickup that evolved into the popular P90
magnetic/electric pickups used today. We had two Gibson ES-150s at the
shop at one time ... one a Charlie Christian model and another had the
prototype P90 on it. Both were pre-WWII guitars. "ES" by the way
stands for "Electric Spanish" and Gibson first started using the "ES"
nomenclature on their guitars when the first electric acoustics were
introduced.

Meanwhile, traditional acoustic guitars (known as "flat tops") began to
grow in size in order to produce more sound. Eventually different types
of acoustic pickups were developed ... piezo transducers, under the
saddle sensors, body sensors and internal microphones. The output of
these pickups are fed into amplifiers or PA systems to increase sound
volume.

I don't particularly care for acoustic guitars with these types of
pickups in them because they alter the natural sound of the acoustic
guitar. The unique sound of a Martin or Guild becomes lost due to the
sound coloration of the pickup used. I think using a good quality
stage microphone properly placed in front of the guitar produces a much
better and authentic amplified sound of the guitar. It's also the way
they are recorded most of the time.

Solid body electric guitars are totally different. They are made to be
amplified. Oh ... and Tim's basses.

On 5/21/14, 3:09 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:51:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I like and liked pre-amplified bluegrass.

I am confused by "pre amplified bluegrass"
Do you mean hearing a group in a venue so small that they did not need
amps? I guess TV is out for you totally.
Everyone likes a small room performance. I even enjoyed Barry Manilow
at Shady Grove in Gathersburg (small dinner theater) and I hate the
dude. He did work pretty hard to put on a show. You have to when you
go from Mandy on the radio everywhere to dinner theater.



D'oh. Do you work at this?

This is unamplified, or preamplified bluegrass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RvI6ZI2JWc

I believe this track from The Stanley Brothers is also
*pre* amplified bluegrass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXpWuzT9oY

My favorite group was The Dillards, who I saw several times in person
decades ago, and at the concerts I attended, all their instruments were
un-amped.

The terms are not esoteric. They have nothing to do with stage mikes,
and everything to do with using "acoustic" instruments only...you know,
non-electric guitars, non-electric basses, non-electric banjos,
non-electric mandolins, non-electric dobro guitars, et cetera.

Bluegrass got "electrified" or "amped" pretty heavy in the mid to late
1960s, and that's when I lost interest in it. The themes also became
more "country music-ish" and less traditional.

Do you understand now?

On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:34:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/21/2014 3:24 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:09:31 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:51:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I like and liked pre-amplified bluegrass.

I am confused by "pre amplified bluegrass"
Do you mean hearing a group in a venue so small that they did not need
amps? I guess TV is out for you totally.
Everyone likes a small room performance. I even enjoyed Barry Manilow
at Shady Grove in Gathersburg (small dinner theater) and I hate the
dude. He did work pretty hard to put on a show. You have to when you
go from Mandy on the radio everywhere to dinner theater.

There is a lot of bluegrass played in a small venue. It's usually called 'jamming'. A bunch of
pickers get together and the only folks who can hear are sitting around right around the campsite.

It would be pretty hard for a thousand folks in lawn chairs to hear anything that wasn't amplified.



There's a big difference in what you consider "amplified".

Back in the late 1800's and up to about 1920 or so acoustic flat top
guitars were small in size. They were called "Parlor" guitars and had
strings made of animal intestines or "Gut Strings". It wasn't until
the 1920's that steel strings came into play. Steel stringed guitars
are louder but had to be built and braced differently to tolerate the
much higher string tension of steel strings. We seen more than one
rare, vintage guitar originally built for gut strings (you can use nylon
strings on them now) that were ruined because the owner tried putting
steel strings on them. Rips the bridge right off the guitar, often
taking part of the top with it. Tuned to pitch, steel strings generate
about 200lbs or more of tension that is trying to rip the bridge off the
guitar.

Anyway, when the Big Band era started in the 1920's and 1930's acoustic
guitars -- both flat tops and archtops simply weren't loud enough to be
heard along with the horns, reed instruments, drums etc. in the bands.
One of the first electrics was an acoustic archtop on which a pickup
taken from a lapsteel guitar was mounted. It became the famous "Charlie
Christian" pickup and guitar configuration. It's replacement was
another large, strange magnetic pickup that evolved into the popular P90
magnetic/electric pickups used today. We had two Gibson ES-150s at the
shop at one time ... one a Charlie Christian model and another had the
prototype P90 on it. Both were pre-WWII guitars. "ES" by the way
stands for "Electric Spanish" and Gibson first started using the "ES"
nomenclature on their guitars when the first electric acoustics were
introduced.

Meanwhile, traditional acoustic guitars (known as "flat tops") began to
grow in size in order to produce more sound. Eventually different types
of acoustic pickups were developed ... piezo transducers, under the
saddle sensors, body sensors and internal microphones. The output of
these pickups are fed into amplifiers or PA systems to increase sound
volume.

I don't particularly care for acoustic guitars with these types of
pickups in them because they alter the natural sound of the acoustic
guitar. The unique sound of a Martin or Guild becomes lost due to the
sound coloration of the pickup used. I think using a good quality
stage microphone properly placed in front of the guitar produces a much
better and authentic amplified sound of the guitar. It's also the way
they are recorded most of the time.

Solid body electric guitars are totally different. They are made to be
amplified. Oh ... and Tim's basses.

Then I don't know what Harry's talking about. If one looks at the pictures I posted, the instruments
are played with a microphone in front, in almost all cases. I didn't see any 'electric' guitars, or
guitars with wires running to amplifiers. When I say 'guitars', I mean all the stringed instruments.
I still don't understand Harry's comment about 'pre-amplified bluegrass'. The only amplification I
saw was through the PA system. I suppose this is what he doesn't like, which makes little sense.

Anyway, thank you for the history lesson, and I agree with your comment about a good quality
microphone placed properly in front of the instrument. Gettysburg uses the same sound guys year
after year, and they get rave reviews from all the performers.

On 5/21/14, 5:56 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:

Then I don't know what Harry's talking about. If one looks at the pictures I posted, the instruments
are played with a microphone in front, in almost all cases. I didn't see any 'electric' guitars, or
guitars with wires running to amplifiers.


D'oh. You don't see many long wires running from most of the guitars to
amps at a rock concert, either, if they are using wireless mikes on
their instruments.

On 5/21/2014 5:56 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:34:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/21/2014 3:24 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 15:09:31 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:51:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I like and liked pre-amplified bluegrass.

I am confused by "pre amplified bluegrass"
Do you mean hearing a group in a venue so small that they did not need
amps? I guess TV is out for you totally.
Everyone likes a small room performance. I even enjoyed Barry Manilow
at Shady Grove in Gathersburg (small dinner theater) and I hate the
dude. He did work pretty hard to put on a show. You have to when you
go from Mandy on the radio everywhere to dinner theater.

There is a lot of bluegrass played in a small venue. It's usually called 'jamming'. A bunch of
pickers get together and the only folks who can hear are sitting around right around the campsite.

It would be pretty hard for a thousand folks in lawn chairs to hear anything that wasn't amplified.



There's a big difference in what you consider "amplified".

Back in the late 1800's and up to about 1920 or so acoustic flat top
guitars were small in size. They were called "Parlor" guitars and had
strings made of animal intestines or "Gut Strings". It wasn't until
the 1920's that steel strings came into play. Steel stringed guitars
are louder but had to be built and braced differently to tolerate the
much higher string tension of steel strings. We seen more than one
rare, vintage guitar originally built for gut strings (you can use nylon
strings on them now) that were ruined because the owner tried putting
steel strings on them. Rips the bridge right off the guitar, often
taking part of the top with it. Tuned to pitch, steel strings generate
about 200lbs or more of tension that is trying to rip the bridge off the
guitar.

Anyway, when the Big Band era started in the 1920's and 1930's acoustic
guitars -- both flat tops and archtops simply weren't loud enough to be
heard along with the horns, reed instruments, drums etc. in the bands.
One of the first electrics was an acoustic archtop on which a pickup
taken from a lapsteel guitar was mounted. It became the famous "Charlie
Christian" pickup and guitar configuration. It's replacement was
another large, strange magnetic pickup that evolved into the popular P90
magnetic/electric pickups used today. We had two Gibson ES-150s at the
shop at one time ... one a Charlie Christian model and another had the
prototype P90 on it. Both were pre-WWII guitars. "ES" by the way
stands for "Electric Spanish" and Gibson first started using the "ES"
nomenclature on their guitars when the first electric acoustics were
introduced.

Meanwhile, traditional acoustic guitars (known as "flat tops") began to
grow in size in order to produce more sound. Eventually different types
of acoustic pickups were developed ... piezo transducers, under the
saddle sensors, body sensors and internal microphones. The output of
these pickups are fed into amplifiers or PA systems to increase sound
volume.

I don't particularly care for acoustic guitars with these types of
pickups in them because they alter the natural sound of the acoustic
guitar. The unique sound of a Martin or Guild becomes lost due to the
sound coloration of the pickup used. I think using a good quality
stage microphone properly placed in front of the guitar produces a much
better and authentic amplified sound of the guitar. It's also the way
they are recorded most of the time.

Solid body electric guitars are totally different. They are made to be
amplified. Oh ... and Tim's basses.

Then I don't know what Harry's talking about. If one looks at the pictures I posted, the instruments
are played with a microphone in front, in almost all cases. I didn't see any 'electric' guitars, or
guitars with wires running to amplifiers. When I say 'guitars', I mean all the stringed instruments.
I still don't understand Harry's comment about 'pre-amplified bluegrass'. The only amplification I
saw was through the PA system. I suppose this is what he doesn't like, which makes little sense.

Anyway, thank you for the history lesson, and I agree with your comment about a good quality
microphone placed properly in front of the instrument. Gettysburg uses the same sound guys year
after year, and they get rave reviews from all the performers.


I think he was talking about electric guitars, guessing that you are
gonna' see on in a modern bluegrass fest... Google fails the great
krause again...

wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:51:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I like and liked pre-amplified bluegrass.

I am confused by "pre amplified bluegrass"
Do you mean hearing a group in a venue so small that they did not need
amps? I guess TV is out for you totally.
Everyone likes a small room performance. I even enjoyed Barry Manilow
at Shady Grove in Gathersburg (small dinner theater) and I hate the
dude. He did work pretty hard to put on a show. You have to when you
go from Mandy on the radio everywhere to dinner theater.

I remember seeing Ray Charles about 1967 in a small room for a show at San
Francisco State. Probably held 50 people and that was crowded. Great
show. No amps required.