In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.

On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.

On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.

On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

On 4/11/2014 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.

Well then Krause is full of bull****. I shot a SW 686-6+ and the trigger
was smooth as silk with no slack.

On 4/11/14, 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:07:55 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


OK, I guess they have fixed that crime problem. Maybe it is safe to go
to Bulletmore again. (last year they murdered 333)
I am sure all of those gang bangers are lining up for their HQL.
They can save the $100 because the cops already have their
fingerprints.



I drive up to Baltimore about every two weeks for a day long or half day
long marketing meeting with a client. Never encountered any problems. Go
there for dinner frequently, too. Probably fewer guys up there playing
banjo and forcing themselves anally on other guys than in Redneckville,
where you live, eh?

On 4/11/14, 11:58 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:33:31 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I drive up to Baltimore about every two weeks for a day long or half day
long marketing meeting with a client. Never encountered any problems. Go
there for dinner frequently, too. Probably fewer guys up there playing
banjo and forcing themselves anally on other guys than in Redneckville,
where you live, eh?

That only happens up around Jacksonville where the real rednecks are.
(AKA South Georgia)
BTW Miami, the most dangerous city in Florida has a murder rate of
16.8 per 100,000. Bulletmore is over 37.

I would say you are just lucky or you don't actually move around much
there.



I've only been shot at twice in the United States, once in Mississippi
and once in Louisiana.

I had a firearm pulled on me in the Miami area by a rentacop. This was
after Hurricane Andrew when a labor organizer and I were returning a van
we had rented to depot near the airport. We had a lot of stuff and were
unloading it near where the shuttle bus would take us to the airport.
The site's rentacop didn't like that and had "words" with my buddy, who
wasn't having any of it. It got a little heated, and the rentacop drew
his pistol and waved it at us. My buddy disarmed the rentacop and had
the moron on the ground "faster than a speeding bullet," as it were.

This was an "old school" labor organizer, the ones I admired from the
good old days. You know, "either your signature or your brains will be
on the contract in the next two minutes..." Unfortunately that sort of
understandable "pressure" and violence has been replaced by the tactics
of the banksters and wall street lawyers.

On 4/11/2014 5:57 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:07:55 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


OK, I guess they have fixed that crime problem. Maybe it is safe to go
to Bulletmore again. (last year they murdered 333)
I am sure all of those gang bangers are lining up for their HQL.
They can save the $100 because the cops already have their
fingerprints.

If you possessed said handgun prior to October 1st 2013 you do not need
to obtain an HQL to continue to posses said handgun after October 1st
2013. Therefore, if the criminals already had their illegally obtained
handguns in their possession they are not required to obtain an HQL to
continue to posses their illegal handguns.

The fingerprints have to be scanned electronically from your finger
tips. No paper and ink prints are accepted. No prior prints are
acceptable either. Mine have been on-file with the feds since I was 16,
when I was hired by the USDA.



Massachusetts requires ink fingerprints for the permit. The state also
required an electronic fingerprint check at the time of each gun
purchase from a dealer up to about 6 months ago. Dealers had the
electronic pad and it was included in the background check they made at
time of purchase. For every purchase, regardless of how long you had a
permit, a criminal background check along with the electronic
fingerprint was required. The dealer electronic fingerprint check was
eliminated however. They now require a "PIN" number that is issued with
your permit.

Funny thing is, I can buy or sell a firearm from or to anyone without
any checks as long as we each have an active and appropriate MA permit.
It's up to the buyer and seller to confirm. A transaction report is
required however but it can be done easily on-line at the time of transfer.