On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 10:27 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:11:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 8:13 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 06:43:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/29/2014 6:02 AM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:36:37 AM UTC-7, Mr. Luddite wrote:
... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL



My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)



Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the

rest of my boating days.



http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/

That is a nice boat. 2000 hp deutz single. I liked how it was called N "Expeditionary" yacht.



I did some more research on it. It was originally a heavy duty fishing
trawler. The current owners started a conversion process in 2010 with
the intent to turn it into a luxury live-a-board yacht.

They removed all the fishing well tanks, the DC generators, winches and
all fishing related gear to make space for 6 additional cabins. I think
that's where they stopped and decided to sell it. I found a listing
where it is being offered for $345K.


===

Figure about $40K to 50K everytime you fill it up with diesel, and
another $50K to 100K+/year for maintenance/insurance. Given the fact
that there must be *serious* unresolved issues to bring it on the
market at that price, they should probably pay someone to take it off
their hands. Better to get an old Hatteras or Bertram in the 50 to 60
ft range if you want a real bargain that you can actually use.



No question about it. That's why I mentioned that for the number of
years I have left for boating I'd probably only have to fill it up once.
Range is 5,000 nm. :-) Plus, who knows what it will take to
complete the conversion.

I've often talked about how much I liked the Navigator. There's an
interesting story behind that line.

A naval architect by the name of Jule Marshall originally owned and
designed boats called "Californian Yachts" back in the 1970s. The
company produced a trawler type boat to compete with Grand Banks and
other trawlers that were made in Asia. The first ones he designed and
built received high grades in boating reviews and put him on the map.

For whatever reason (probably financial) he sold Californian Yachts in
the mid 1980s to Wellcraft who, in turn, sold it to Carver. They
acquired the name only and did not build any of the original designs.

In the late 1980s after a non-compete associated with the sale expired,
Marshall started production of the Navigator line. They are very
similar to the original Californian Yachts in many respects.

Then, in 1998 Marshall purchased the Californian name back. He is now
building both Navigators and a new line of Californian Yachts, both
trawler types and cruising sedans. I like this one, although I'd
probably go for one of his trawler types instead. This one is 50'
and is called the Veneti. Very modern but traditional, clean lines.
The master stateroom is great .. bed, couch, desk. Check out the fuel
efficiency specs. Not too shabby for 50' boat capable of cruising at 21
knots. Only thing I am not crazy about is that it uses Zeus drives.

http://www.navigatoryachts.com/models/50veneti/

It is definitely not a boat I would buy based on looks. But, to each his own.



You would never like the one I'd be more inclined to buy then. My
interest is comfort, ride, build quality and ability to spend weeks at a
time on a boat. Go fast types really don't interest me anymore. The
Navigator I had was built like a tank with stringers and structural
bulkheads that were humongous compared to comparable boats of it's size.

Here's a trawler type made by Californian Yachts:

http://www.navigatoryachts.com/models/48cal/index.html


Now *that* is a beautiful boat, and I'd guess its ride, build, and overall enjoyability would match
the Veniti. The Veniti just looks like a 'go fast' boat, to me. I don't remember which Navigator you
had, but as I recall I liked the looks of it - a lot more than those of the Veniti.

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:43:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 10:19 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 04:36:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL

My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)

Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the
rest of my boating days.

http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/

Well, it's for damn sure Gregg would pick #7, which also appears to have sufficient exercise space.

Looks-wise, I'm with you. I like the 'north sea trawler' look. If I had the money, I'd look
carefully at a Nordic Tug. I like them. That's my dream boat.



Yup. A Nordic Tug, Grand Banks and a couple of others are on my short
"wish" list. The difficulty is in finding the right one. I'll never
buy new again, so when you find something of interest you have to be
prepared to travel all over the place to check them out.

I'll wait until we see how the house sale goes, where we end up next and
then get serious about looking. One of the issues is that for size boat
I am looking for I need to first locate a decent marina and available
slip. We just put the remaining "dockominium" we had Mrs.E's Grand
Banks in up for sale. So, decisions are being slowly made.


You've got time, it's fun, and the process results in a lot of learning. Of course my current
decision is which battery charger to buy for these LiPo batteries that go in the RC planes. Little
smaller decision, cost-wise, but I'm learning a hell of a lot.

On 3/29/2014 10:49 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 10:27 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:11:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 8:13 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 06:43:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/29/2014 6:02 AM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:36:37 AM UTC-7, Mr. Luddite wrote:
... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL



My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)



Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the

rest of my boating days.



http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/

That is a nice boat. 2000 hp deutz single. I liked how it was called N "Expeditionary" yacht.



I did some more research on it. It was originally a heavy duty fishing
trawler. The current owners started a conversion process in 2010 with
the intent to turn it into a luxury live-a-board yacht.

They removed all the fishing well tanks, the DC generators, winches and
all fishing related gear to make space for 6 additional cabins. I think
that's where they stopped and decided to sell it. I found a listing
where it is being offered for $345K.


===

Figure about $40K to 50K everytime you fill it up with diesel, and
another $50K to 100K+/year for maintenance/insurance. Given the fact
that there must be *serious* unresolved issues to bring it on the
market at that price, they should probably pay someone to take it off
their hands. Better to get an old Hatteras or Bertram in the 50 to 60
ft range if you want a real bargain that you can actually use.



No question about it. That's why I mentioned that for the number of
years I have left for boating I'd probably only have to fill it up once.
Range is 5,000 nm. :-) Plus, who knows what it will take to
complete the conversion.

I've often talked about how much I liked the Navigator. There's an
interesting story behind that line.

A naval architect by the name of Jule Marshall originally owned and
designed boats called "Californian Yachts" back in the 1970s. The
company produced a trawler type boat to compete with Grand Banks and
other trawlers that were made in Asia. The first ones he designed and
built received high grades in boating reviews and put him on the map.

For whatever reason (probably financial) he sold Californian Yachts in
the mid 1980s to Wellcraft who, in turn, sold it to Carver. They
acquired the name only and did not build any of the original designs.

In the late 1980s after a non-compete associated with the sale expired,
Marshall started production of the Navigator line. They are very
similar to the original Californian Yachts in many respects.

Then, in 1998 Marshall purchased the Californian name back. He is now
building both Navigators and a new line of Californian Yachts, both
trawler types and cruising sedans. I like this one, although I'd
probably go for one of his trawler types instead. This one is 50'
and is called the Veneti. Very modern but traditional, clean lines.
The master stateroom is great .. bed, couch, desk. Check out the fuel
efficiency specs. Not too shabby for 50' boat capable of cruising at 21
knots. Only thing I am not crazy about is that it uses Zeus drives.

http://www.navigatoryachts.com/models/50veneti/

It is definitely not a boat I would buy based on looks. But, to each his own.



You would never like the one I'd be more inclined to buy then. My
interest is comfort, ride, build quality and ability to spend weeks at a
time on a boat. Go fast types really don't interest me anymore. The
Navigator I had was built like a tank with stringers and structural
bulkheads that were humongous compared to comparable boats of it's size.

Here's a trawler type made by Californian Yachts:

http://www.navigatoryachts.com/models/48cal/index.html


Now *that* is a beautiful boat, and I'd guess its ride, build, and overall enjoyability would match
the Veniti. The Veniti just looks like a 'go fast' boat, to me. I don't remember which Navigator you
had, but as I recall I liked the looks of it - a lot more than those of the Veniti.



The Navigator I had was called a "Pilothouse". Sorta a cross between a
trawler and a sedan type cruiser.

I think the photo they used for the Veniti is deceiving. It looks like
it's about a 28'boat. You have to remember that it's almost twice that
length. Here's another pic I found with it underway and up on plane:

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy303/Eisboch/Californian50.jpg

On 3/29/2014 10:51 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:43:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 10:19 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 04:36:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL

My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)

Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the
rest of my boating days.

http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/

Well, it's for damn sure Gregg would pick #7, which also appears to have sufficient exercise space.

Looks-wise, I'm with you. I like the 'north sea trawler' look. If I had the money, I'd look
carefully at a Nordic Tug. I like them. That's my dream boat.



Yup. A Nordic Tug, Grand Banks and a couple of others are on my short
"wish" list. The difficulty is in finding the right one. I'll never
buy new again, so when you find something of interest you have to be
prepared to travel all over the place to check them out.

I'll wait until we see how the house sale goes, where we end up next and
then get serious about looking. One of the issues is that for size boat
I am looking for I need to first locate a decent marina and available
slip. We just put the remaining "dockominium" we had Mrs.E's Grand
Banks in up for sale. So, decisions are being slowly made.


You've got time, it's fun, and the process results in a lot of learning. Of course my current
decision is which battery charger to buy for these LiPo batteries that go in the RC planes. Little
smaller decision, cost-wise, but I'm learning a hell of a lot.


Check with Steve (my neighbor). He went through a lot of investigation
regarding charger types and explained the results.
He is very active in that stuff and is known as a technical nerdy expert
on types of RC aircraft and the electronics that controls them as
president of his local flying club.

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:11:19 AM UTC-7, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/29/2014 8:13 AM, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 06:43:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



On 3/29/2014 6:02 AM, Tim wrote:

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:36:37 AM UTC-7, Mr. Luddite wrote:

... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL







My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)







Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the



rest of my boating days.







http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/



That is a nice boat. 2000 hp deutz single. I liked how it was called N "Expeditionary" yacht.







I did some more research on it. It was originally a heavy duty fishing

trawler. The current owners started a conversion process in 2010 with

the intent to turn it into a luxury live-a-board yacht.



They removed all the fishing well tanks, the DC generators, winches and

all fishing related gear to make space for 6 additional cabins. I think

that's where they stopped and decided to sell it. I found a listing

where it is being offered for $345K.





===



Figure about $40K to 50K everytime you fill it up with diesel, and

another $50K to 100K+/year for maintenance/insurance. Given the fact

that there must be *serious* unresolved issues to bring it on the

market at that price, they should probably pay someone to take it off

their hands. Better to get an old Hatteras or Bertram in the 50 to 60

ft range if you want a real bargain that you can actually use.







No question about it. That's why I mentioned that for the number of

years I have left for boating I'd probably only have to fill it up once.

Range is 5,000 nm. :-) Plus, who knows what it will take to

complete the conversion.



I've often talked about how much I liked the Navigator. There's an

interesting story behind that line.



A naval architect by the name of Jule Marshall originally owned and

designed boats called "Californian Yachts" back in the 1970s. The

company produced a trawler type boat to compete with Grand Banks and

other trawlers that were made in Asia. The first ones he designed and

built received high grades in boating reviews and put him on the map.



For whatever reason (probably financial) he sold Californian Yachts in

the mid 1980s to Wellcraft who, in turn, sold it to Carver. They

acquired the name only and did not build any of the original designs.



In the late 1980s after a non-compete associated with the sale expired,

Marshall started production of the Navigator line. They are very

similar to the original Californian Yachts in many respects.



Then, in 1998 Marshall purchased the Californian name back. He is now

building both Navigators and a new line of Californian Yachts, both

trawler types and cruising sedans. I like this one, although I'd

probably go for one of his trawler types instead. This one is 50'

and is called the Veneti. Very modern but traditional, clean lines.

The master stateroom is great .. bed, couch, desk. Check out the fuel

efficiency specs. Not too shabby for 50' boat capable of cruising at 21

knots. Only thing I am not crazy about is that it uses Zeus drives.



http://www.navigatoryachts.com/models/50veneti/

Rich, that's a really interesting review. Thanks!

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:26:33 AM UTC-7, wrote:

I am not a yacht guy but if I had a big boat it would be a sporterized

PBR type of thing. I would want something that runs pretty skinny.

Oh yeah!

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 11:11:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 10:51 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:43:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 10:19 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 04:36:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL

My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)

Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the
rest of my boating days.

http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/

Well, it's for damn sure Gregg would pick #7, which also appears to have sufficient exercise space.

Looks-wise, I'm with you. I like the 'north sea trawler' look. If I had the money, I'd look
carefully at a Nordic Tug. I like them. That's my dream boat.



Yup. A Nordic Tug, Grand Banks and a couple of others are on my short
"wish" list. The difficulty is in finding the right one. I'll never
buy new again, so when you find something of interest you have to be
prepared to travel all over the place to check them out.

I'll wait until we see how the house sale goes, where we end up next and
then get serious about looking. One of the issues is that for size boat
I am looking for I need to first locate a decent marina and available
slip. We just put the remaining "dockominium" we had Mrs.E's Grand
Banks in up for sale. So, decisions are being slowly made.


You've got time, it's fun, and the process results in a lot of learning. Of course my current
decision is which battery charger to buy for these LiPo batteries that go in the RC planes. Little
smaller decision, cost-wise, but I'm learning a hell of a lot.


Check with Steve (my neighbor). He went through a lot of investigation
regarding charger types and explained the results.
He is very active in that stuff and is known as a technical nerdy expert
on types of RC aircraft and the electronics that controls them as
president of his local flying club.

When asking a question about chargers and batteries in an RC group, I was basically told to memorize
this:

http://www.tjinguytech.com/charging-how-tos

I won't bother Steve until I've gone through that stuff. I don't think I've still got his email
anyway.

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 11:07:02 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 10:49 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 10:27 AM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:11:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2014 8:13 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 06:43:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/29/2014 6:02 AM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:36:37 AM UTC-7, Mr. Luddite wrote:
... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL



My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)



Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the

rest of my boating days.



http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/

That is a nice boat. 2000 hp deutz single. I liked how it was called N "Expeditionary" yacht.



I did some more research on it. It was originally a heavy duty fishing
trawler. The current owners started a conversion process in 2010 with
the intent to turn it into a luxury live-a-board yacht.

They removed all the fishing well tanks, the DC generators, winches and
all fishing related gear to make space for 6 additional cabins. I think
that's where they stopped and decided to sell it. I found a listing
where it is being offered for $345K.


===

Figure about $40K to 50K everytime you fill it up with diesel, and
another $50K to 100K+/year for maintenance/insurance. Given the fact
that there must be *serious* unresolved issues to bring it on the
market at that price, they should probably pay someone to take it off
their hands. Better to get an old Hatteras or Bertram in the 50 to 60
ft range if you want a real bargain that you can actually use.



No question about it. That's why I mentioned that for the number of
years I have left for boating I'd probably only have to fill it up once.
Range is 5,000 nm. :-) Plus, who knows what it will take to
complete the conversion.

I've often talked about how much I liked the Navigator. There's an
interesting story behind that line.

A naval architect by the name of Jule Marshall originally owned and
designed boats called "Californian Yachts" back in the 1970s. The
company produced a trawler type boat to compete with Grand Banks and
other trawlers that were made in Asia. The first ones he designed and
built received high grades in boating reviews and put him on the map.

For whatever reason (probably financial) he sold Californian Yachts in
the mid 1980s to Wellcraft who, in turn, sold it to Carver. They
acquired the name only and did not build any of the original designs.

In the late 1980s after a non-compete associated with the sale expired,
Marshall started production of the Navigator line. They are very
similar to the original Californian Yachts in many respects.

Then, in 1998 Marshall purchased the Californian name back. He is now
building both Navigators and a new line of Californian Yachts, both
trawler types and cruising sedans. I like this one, although I'd
probably go for one of his trawler types instead. This one is 50'
and is called the Veneti. Very modern but traditional, clean lines.
The master stateroom is great .. bed, couch, desk. Check out the fuel
efficiency specs. Not too shabby for 50' boat capable of cruising at 21
knots. Only thing I am not crazy about is that it uses Zeus drives.

http://www.navigatoryachts.com/models/50veneti/

It is definitely not a boat I would buy based on looks. But, to each his own.



You would never like the one I'd be more inclined to buy then. My
interest is comfort, ride, build quality and ability to spend weeks at a
time on a boat. Go fast types really don't interest me anymore. The
Navigator I had was built like a tank with stringers and structural
bulkheads that were humongous compared to comparable boats of it's size.

Here's a trawler type made by Californian Yachts:

http://www.navigatoryachts.com/models/48cal/index.html


Now *that* is a beautiful boat, and I'd guess its ride, build, and overall enjoyability would match
the Veniti. The Veniti just looks like a 'go fast' boat, to me. I don't remember which Navigator you
had, but as I recall I liked the looks of it - a lot more than those of the Veniti.



The Navigator I had was called a "Pilothouse". Sorta a cross between a
trawler and a sedan type cruiser.

I think the photo they used for the Veniti is deceiving. It looks like
it's about a 28'boat. You have to remember that it's almost twice that
length. Here's another pic I found with it underway and up on plane:

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy303/Eisboch/Californian50.jpg


That's a tad better, but to me it still looks like something that belongs on the Italian Riveria!

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 11:26:33 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:19:52 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 04:36:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL

My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)

Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the
rest of my boating days.

http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/

Well, it's for damn sure Gregg would pick #7, which also appears to have sufficient exercise space.

Looks-wise, I'm with you. I like the 'north sea trawler' look. If I had the money, I'd look
carefully at a Nordic Tug. I like them. That's my dream boat.

Bad time to talk about Mr Ed. He just took himself for a walk.

I am not a yacht guy but if I had a big boat it would be a sporterized
PBR type of thing. I would want something that runs pretty skinny.

What do you mean by 'he just took himself for a walk'? I hope you don't mean he's left to die on his
own. Our farm dog did that - just walked out to the pasture by himself. After a few hours we went
looking for him. Found him laying under a tree, very peacefully.

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:11:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/29/2014 8:13 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 06:43:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/29/2014 6:02 AM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:36:37 AM UTC-7, Mr. Luddite wrote:
... well, really just dreaming. Came across some "bargains". LOL



My favorite is number 2, "Balboa" (scroll down the page a bit)



Assuming I could afford the initial fuel fillup, it should last the

rest of my boating days.



http://funnysun.net/luxury-yachts-1-million-2/

That is a nice boat. 2000 hp deutz single. I liked how it was called N "Expeditionary" yacht.



I did some more research on it. It was originally a heavy duty fishing
trawler. The current owners started a conversion process in 2010 with
the intent to turn it into a luxury live-a-board yacht.

They removed all the fishing well tanks, the DC generators, winches and
all fishing related gear to make space for 6 additional cabins. I think
that's where they stopped and decided to sell it. I found a listing
where it is being offered for $345K.


===

Figure about $40K to 50K everytime you fill it up with diesel, and
another $50K to 100K+/year for maintenance/insurance. Given the fact
that there must be *serious* unresolved issues to bring it on the
market at that price, they should probably pay someone to take it off
their hands. Better to get an old Hatteras or Bertram in the 50 to 60
ft range if you want a real bargain that you can actually use.



No question about it. That's why I mentioned that for the number of
years I have left for boating I'd probably only have to fill it up once.
Range is 5,000 nm. :-) Plus, who knows what it will take to
complete the conversion.

I've often talked about how much I liked the Navigator. There's an
interesting story behind that line.

A naval architect by the name of Jule Marshall originally owned and
designed boats called "Californian Yachts" back in the 1970s. The
company produced a trawler type boat to compete with Grand Banks and
other trawlers that were made in Asia. The first ones he designed and
built received high grades in boating reviews and put him on the map.

For whatever reason (probably financial) he sold Californian Yachts in
the mid 1980s to Wellcraft who, in turn, sold it to Carver. They
acquired the name only and did not build any of the original designs.

In the late 1980s after a non-compete associated with the sale expired,
Marshall started production of the Navigator line. They are very
similar to the original Californian Yachts in many respects.

Then, in 1998 Marshall purchased the Californian name back. He is now
building both Navigators and a new line of Californian Yachts, both
trawler types and cruising sedans. I like this one, although I'd
probably go for one of his trawler types instead. This one is 50'
and is called the Veneti. Very modern but traditional, clean lines.
The master stateroom is great .. bed, couch, desk. Check out the fuel
efficiency specs. Not too shabby for 50' boat capable of cruising at 21
knots. Only thing I am not crazy about is that it uses Zeus drives.

http://www.navigatoryachts.com/models/50veneti/

===

It's interesting and attractive but in addition to the Zeus drives
there are a few deal breakers for me:

1. No flybridge (unbeatable for visibility and fresh air).

2. No real walk around decks, or convenient access doors from the
helm station (important for single and short handed docking not to
mention anchoring and mooring pickup).

3. Lack of a recent track record (it always takes a while to get the
bugs out of a new design and build).