On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 15:37:13 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:29:03 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:19:51 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:51:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Now that the 4 strokes are getting better, there is very little

advantage to an I/O.

My mother's family all ran "Bay Built" work boats with inboards and I

thought an I/O was the best of both worlds until I got down here.

The ones I was familiar with on the Chesapeake were still trailer

boats. Down here the only I/Os you see are "go fasts" with big block

V-8s that seldom get wet.

I know exactly what you're saying Greg. But unless you have a sail boat, and like to pay slip rents, around here, trailer boating rules. Mercruiser alpha 1's are easy to come by due to long term use. I mean' it's kinda hard to improve a hammer.

And I/0 engines are something that most parts you can get through NAPA. Like carb kits, solenoids, belts etc. I wouldn't use an automotive water pump, though...

What's a "carb kit"?

I haven't had anything bigger than a lawn mower with a carb in 15
years. These days those tune up parts are not really that important.
On a 4 stroke outboard the maintenance is mostly oil changes.
You still have thermostats, impellers and anodes in your stern drive.
Those are the other common maintenance parts.
If you are running in salt water you will need fresh water cooling so
you will be adding the heat exchanger parts to your maintenance
schedule, along with all of those rubber parts that keep your boat
from sinking.
I think the advent of EFI 4 strokes pushed outboards past the I/O and
you can get 350HP in an outboard. I hear rumors a 400 is in the works
from the majors.

If you want a boutique manufacturer, there is Seven Marine, putting a
Northstar Cadillac engine in an outboard. (557HP and looking at
something over 600 from what I hear)

This is what I'd call a 'carb kit', although it's not for a V6.

http://www.harpermoto.com/carburettor-gasket-kit.html

For when it's cold, rainy, and you're looking for something to do.

I have gone out of my way to forget carb kits.

It is like painting. I know how to do it but I hate it.
If you don't have access to a hot tank, "rebuilding" carbs can be a
frustrating exercise. There always seems to be one passage you don't
get completely clean and that is usually the one that caused the
problem in the first place.

Guzzi carbs aren't near as complicated as a 2 or 4 barrel auto carb. I tried to rebuild one of those
4 barrels when I was about 19. Got it back on the car, had a friend hit the starter, and gas came
flowing out the top of the carb. I never tried again until I got a Moto Guzzi. They're pretty easy
to work on.

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:35:32 PM UTC-7, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 15:37:13 -0400, wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:29:03 -0400, Poquito Loco

wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:19:51 -0400, wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:51:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim

wrote:



Now that the 4 strokes are getting better, there is very little



advantage to an I/O.



My mother's family all ran "Bay Built" work boats with inboards and I



thought an I/O was the best of both worlds until I got down here.



The ones I was familiar with on the Chesapeake were still trailer



boats. Down here the only I/Os you see are "go fasts" with big block



V-8s that seldom get wet.



I know exactly what you're saying Greg. But unless you have a sail boat, and like to pay slip rents, around here, trailer boating rules. Mercruiser alpha 1's are easy to come by due to long term use. I mean' it's kinda hard to improve a hammer.



And I/0 engines are something that most parts you can get through NAPA. Like carb kits, solenoids, belts etc. I wouldn't use an automotive water pump, though...



What's a "carb kit"?



I haven't had anything bigger than a lawn mower with a carb in 15

years. These days those tune up parts are not really that important.

On a 4 stroke outboard the maintenance is mostly oil changes.

You still have thermostats, impellers and anodes in your stern drive.

Those are the other common maintenance parts.

If you are running in salt water you will need fresh water cooling so

you will be adding the heat exchanger parts to your maintenance

schedule, along with all of those rubber parts that keep your boat

from sinking.

I think the advent of EFI 4 strokes pushed outboards past the I/O and

you can get 350HP in an outboard. I hear rumors a 400 is in the works

from the majors.



If you want a boutique manufacturer, there is Seven Marine, putting a

Northstar Cadillac engine in an outboard. (557HP and looking at

something over 600 from what I hear)



This is what I'd call a 'carb kit', although it's not for a V6.



http://www.harpermoto.com/carburettor-gasket-kit.html



For when it's cold, rainy, and you're looking for something to do.



I have gone out of my way to forget carb kits.



It is like painting. I know how to do it but I hate it.

If you don't have access to a hot tank, "rebuilding" carbs can be a

frustrating exercise. There always seems to be one passage you don't

get completely clean and that is usually the one that caused the

problem in the first place.



Guzzi carbs aren't near as complicated as a 2 or 4 barrel auto carb. I tried to rebuild one of those

4 barrels when I was about 19. Got it back on the car, had a friend hit the starter, and gas came

flowing out the top of the carb. I never tried again until I got a Moto Guzzi. They're pretty easy

to work on.

DeLorto's are much simpler than automotive, even those like mine with the square slides.

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 18:59:15 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:35:32 PM UTC-7, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 15:37:13 -0400, wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:29:03 -0400, Poquito Loco

wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:19:51 -0400, wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:51:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim

wrote:



Now that the 4 strokes are getting better, there is very little



advantage to an I/O.



My mother's family all ran "Bay Built" work boats with inboards and I



thought an I/O was the best of both worlds until I got down here.



The ones I was familiar with on the Chesapeake were still trailer



boats. Down here the only I/Os you see are "go fasts" with big block



V-8s that seldom get wet.



I know exactly what you're saying Greg. But unless you have a sail boat, and like to pay slip rents, around here, trailer boating rules. Mercruiser alpha 1's are easy to come by due to long term use. I mean' it's kinda hard to improve a hammer.



And I/0 engines are something that most parts you can get through NAPA. Like carb kits, solenoids, belts etc. I wouldn't use an automotive water pump, though...



What's a "carb kit"?



I haven't had anything bigger than a lawn mower with a carb in 15

years. These days those tune up parts are not really that important.

On a 4 stroke outboard the maintenance is mostly oil changes.

You still have thermostats, impellers and anodes in your stern drive.

Those are the other common maintenance parts.

If you are running in salt water you will need fresh water cooling so

you will be adding the heat exchanger parts to your maintenance

schedule, along with all of those rubber parts that keep your boat

from sinking.

I think the advent of EFI 4 strokes pushed outboards past the I/O and

you can get 350HP in an outboard. I hear rumors a 400 is in the works

from the majors.



If you want a boutique manufacturer, there is Seven Marine, putting a

Northstar Cadillac engine in an outboard. (557HP and looking at

something over 600 from what I hear)



This is what I'd call a 'carb kit', although it's not for a V6.



http://www.harpermoto.com/carburettor-gasket-kit.html



For when it's cold, rainy, and you're looking for something to do.



I have gone out of my way to forget carb kits.



It is like painting. I know how to do it but I hate it.

If you don't have access to a hot tank, "rebuilding" carbs can be a

frustrating exercise. There always seems to be one passage you don't

get completely clean and that is usually the one that caused the

problem in the first place.



Guzzi carbs aren't near as complicated as a 2 or 4 barrel auto carb. I tried to rebuild one of those

4 barrels when I was about 19. Got it back on the car, had a friend hit the starter, and gas came

flowing out the top of the carb. I never tried again until I got a Moto Guzzi. They're pretty easy

to work on.

DeLorto's are much simpler than automotive, even those like mine with the square slides.

The square slides are what was on the 850T. Now I've got the round 30mm PHF's.

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 4:35:32 PM UTC-4, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 15:37:13 -0400, wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:29:03 -0400, Poquito Loco

wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:19:51 -0400, wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:51:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim

wrote:



Now that the 4 strokes are getting better, there is very little



advantage to an I/O.



My mother's family all ran "Bay Built" work boats with inboards and I



thought an I/O was the best of both worlds until I got down here.



The ones I was familiar with on the Chesapeake were still trailer



boats. Down here the only I/Os you see are "go fasts" with big block



V-8s that seldom get wet.



I know exactly what you're saying Greg. But unless you have a sail boat, and like to pay slip rents, around here, trailer boating rules. Mercruiser alpha 1's are easy to come by due to long term use. I mean' it's kinda hard to improve a hammer.



And I/0 engines are something that most parts you can get through NAPA. Like carb kits, solenoids, belts etc. I wouldn't use an automotive water pump, though...



What's a "carb kit"?



I haven't had anything bigger than a lawn mower with a carb in 15

years. These days those tune up parts are not really that important.

On a 4 stroke outboard the maintenance is mostly oil changes.

You still have thermostats, impellers and anodes in your stern drive.

Those are the other common maintenance parts.

If you are running in salt water you will need fresh water cooling so

you will be adding the heat exchanger parts to your maintenance

schedule, along with all of those rubber parts that keep your boat

from sinking.

I think the advent of EFI 4 strokes pushed outboards past the I/O and

you can get 350HP in an outboard. I hear rumors a 400 is in the works

from the majors.



If you want a boutique manufacturer, there is Seven Marine, putting a

Northstar Cadillac engine in an outboard. (557HP and looking at

something over 600 from what I hear)



This is what I'd call a 'carb kit', although it's not for a V6.



http://www.harpermoto.com/carburettor-gasket-kit.html



For when it's cold, rainy, and you're looking for something to do.



I have gone out of my way to forget carb kits.



It is like painting. I know how to do it but I hate it.

If you don't have access to a hot tank, "rebuilding" carbs can be a

frustrating exercise. There always seems to be one passage you don't

get completely clean and that is usually the one that caused the

problem in the first place.



Guzzi carbs aren't near as complicated as a 2 or 4 barrel auto carb. I tried to rebuild one of those

4 barrels when I was about 19. Got it back on the car, had a friend hit the starter, and gas came

flowing out the top of the carb. I never tried again until I got a Moto Guzzi. They're pretty easy

to work on.

Ease of servicing is what is best about the conventional holley 2 and 4 barrels. Most of the passages are located in the metering blocks. Unfortunately they perform best at wot. Otherwise gas "mileage" is fairly poor.

The constant velocity motorcycle carbs always seemed to me as some of the more well designed carbs. Being constant velocity they do not need any enrichment circuits so besides the main jet generally only have one idle fuel passage. Some have a second fuel passage serving in place of a choke. In the do anything sort of day dreams I've often thought it would be interesting to attach 8 of them to a v8. They are often in banks of 4 already for inline 4 motorcycles.

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 4:35:32 PM UTC-4, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 15:37:13 -0400, wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:29:03 -0400, Poquito Loco

wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:19:51 -0400, wrote:



On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:51:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim

wrote:



Now that the 4 strokes are getting better, there is very little



advantage to an I/O.



My mother's family all ran "Bay Built" work boats with inboards and I



thought an I/O was the best of both worlds until I got down here.



The ones I was familiar with on the Chesapeake were still trailer



boats. Down here the only I/Os you see are "go fasts" with big block



V-8s that seldom get wet.



I know exactly what you're saying Greg. But unless you have a sail boat, and like to pay slip rents, around here, trailer boating rules. Mercruiser alpha 1's are easy to come by due to long term use. I mean' it's kinda hard to improve a hammer.



And I/0 engines are something that most parts you can get through NAPA. Like carb kits, solenoids, belts etc. I wouldn't use an automotive water pump, though...



What's a "carb kit"?



I haven't had anything bigger than a lawn mower with a carb in 15

years. These days those tune up parts are not really that important.

On a 4 stroke outboard the maintenance is mostly oil changes.

You still have thermostats, impellers and anodes in your stern drive.

Those are the other common maintenance parts.

If you are running in salt water you will need fresh water cooling so

you will be adding the heat exchanger parts to your maintenance

schedule, along with all of those rubber parts that keep your boat

from sinking.

I think the advent of EFI 4 strokes pushed outboards past the I/O and

you can get 350HP in an outboard. I hear rumors a 400 is in the works

from the majors.



If you want a boutique manufacturer, there is Seven Marine, putting a

Northstar Cadillac engine in an outboard. (557HP and looking at

something over 600 from what I hear)



This is what I'd call a 'carb kit', although it's not for a V6.



http://www.harpermoto.com/carburettor-gasket-kit.html



For when it's cold, rainy, and you're looking for something to do.



I have gone out of my way to forget carb kits.



It is like painting. I know how to do it but I hate it.

If you don't have access to a hot tank, "rebuilding" carbs can be a

frustrating exercise. There always seems to be one passage you don't

get completely clean and that is usually the one that caused the

problem in the first place.



Guzzi carbs aren't near as complicated as a 2 or 4 barrel auto carb. I tried to rebuild one of those

4 barrels when I was about 19. Got it back on the car, had a friend hit the starter, and gas came

flowing out the top of the carb. I never tried again until I got a Moto Guzzi. They're pretty easy

to work on.

Ease of servicing is what is best about the conventional holley 2 and 4 barrels. Most of the passages are located in the metering blocks. Unfortunately they perform best at wot. Otherwise gas "mileage" is fairly poor.

The constant velocity motorcycle carbs always seemed to me as some of the more well designed carbs. Being constant velocity they do not need any enrichment circuits so besides the main jet generally only have one idle fuel passage. Some have a second fuel passage serving in place of a choke. In the do anything sort of day dreams I've often thought it would be interesting to attach 8 of them to a v8. They are often in banks of 4 already for inline 4 motorcycles.

Makes me think of the two SU carbs on a '67 MGBGT I owned for a few years. Synchronizing the carbs
was almost a biweekly chore. I can imagine what a pain taking care of eight of them would be like.

I went to sync the two on my motorcycle the other day, using CarbStix. No problem finding the
CarbStix, but somewhere along the way I lost the adapters to screw into the intake manifolds. After
a lot of searching, I came across these.

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/motion-p...252034410.html

Good idea. Put 'em in and forget 'em.

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I've often thought it would be interesting to attach 8 of them to a v8.

===

Only an old time Italian Ferrari mechanic could keep them all in sync
and the linkage would drive you nutz.

:-)

On 3/30/2014 11:20 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I've often thought it would be interesting to attach 8 of them to a v8.

===

Only an old time Italian Ferrari mechanic could keep them all in sync
and the linkage would drive you nutz.

:-)



Back in my classic car collecting days I had a 1965 Pontiac Catalina 2+2
with the 421ci engine. It had the "tri-power" setup (three, two barrel
carbs) with what they used to call "progressive linkage". Despite the
best efforts by me and a mechanically inclined friend we could never get
it to run right throughout it's RPM range under load. Ended up
replacing the carbs and manifold with a single, 4 barrel setup and it
went like a raped ape.

That was a powerful car. 4 speed manual, on the floor.

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 11:36:24 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/30/2014 11:20 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I've often thought it would be interesting to attach 8 of them to a v8.

===

Only an old time Italian Ferrari mechanic could keep them all in sync
and the linkage would drive you nutz.

:-)



Back in my classic car collecting days I had a 1965 Pontiac Catalina 2+2
with the 421ci engine. It had the "tri-power" setup (three, two barrel
carbs) with what they used to call "progressive linkage". Despite the
best efforts by me and a mechanically inclined friend we could never get
it to run right throughout it's RPM range under load. Ended up
replacing the carbs and manifold with a single, 4 barrel setup and it
went like a raped ape.

That was a powerful car. 4 speed manual, on the floor.


'Three deuces' was the rage for a bit - a short bit.

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:14:20 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 11:54:41 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 11:36:24 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/30/2014 11:20 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I've often thought it would be interesting to attach 8 of them to a v8.

===

Only an old time Italian Ferrari mechanic could keep them all in sync
and the linkage would drive you nutz.

:-)



Back in my classic car collecting days I had a 1965 Pontiac Catalina 2+2
with the 421ci engine. It had the "tri-power" setup (three, two barrel
carbs) with what they used to call "progressive linkage". Despite the
best efforts by me and a mechanically inclined friend we could never get
it to run right throughout it's RPM range under load. Ended up
replacing the carbs and manifold with a single, 4 barrel setup and it
went like a raped ape.

That was a powerful car. 4 speed manual, on the floor.


'Three deuces' was the rage for a bit - a short bit.

EFI made the whole archaic carburetor technology obsolete.
The power we are getting out of small blocks puts my old 327s to shame
and reliability is magnitudes better. They are getting much more HP
per Cu/In at the wheel than they used to get at the crank.
I wouldn't be surprised to see EFI weed eaters and lawn mowers in the
next few years. The microprocessor would cost less than a buck. The
enclosure and connectors will be more of the price than the chip.
The only trick I see is how you power the chip and injectors until you
get it going. If this is an electric start lawn tractor, that is not
an issue.

If the manufactures could develop some type of standard, it seems a rechargeable battery, such as a
LiPo, could provide the energy. Or, a plug in to a cigarette lighter, just to get the chain saw,
mower, weed eater, whatever, started.

On 3/30/2014 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:37:34 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:14:20 -0400, wrote:


EFI made the whole archaic carburetor technology obsolete.
The power we are getting out of small blocks puts my old 327s to shame
and reliability is magnitudes better. They are getting much more HP
per Cu/In at the wheel than they used to get at the crank.
I wouldn't be surprised to see EFI weed eaters and lawn mowers in the
next few years. The microprocessor would cost less than a buck. The
enclosure and connectors will be more of the price than the chip.
The only trick I see is how you power the chip and injectors until you
get it going. If this is an electric start lawn tractor, that is not
an issue.

If the manufactures could develop some type of standard, it seems a rechargeable battery, such as a
LiPo, could provide the energy. Or, a plug in to a cigarette lighter, just to get the chain saw,
mower, weed eater, whatever, started.

Actually you could probably do it with a capacitor, like the old
Triumph trick. Then you don't have the battery problem at all.
Yank the cord a few times with the ignition off to charge the cap,
turn it on yank and go.


"Super" and "Ultra" capacitors are becoming more common in many low
current applications and can replace a battery in many cases. I first
learned about them when a company up here in MA started making under
saddle acoustic guitar pickups using a Super Capacitor instead of the
traditional 9 volt battery to power the pickup's pre-amplifier (located
in the guitar). The pickup is supplied with a small AC adaptor that
has a standard, 1/4" guitar plug on it's output. You simply plug the
plug into the guitar's output jack, plug the AC power supply into the
wall, wait for 60 seconds and remove. The Super capacitor typically
powers the preamp for about 40 hours of continuous play. When
discharged, you just repeat the process. I had guitars that I
initially charged and two months later they still played fine without a
recharge.

I think some of the crank type flashlights also use Super Capacitors.
Again, how long it takes before a recharge is required depends on the
current draw.