??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/18/14, 8:50 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:24 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the
question.
People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know
nothing
about can be dangerous to one's health and safety.

He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have.
No need to keep insulting him.


Some folks come here for their victories.. Dick needs to know it all,
thus his calling bs on me for saying I use filters then suggesting I go
through third parties.. Huh?? Anyway, I am learning as much about
growing older here from him, as I am from harry....


Sorry Scott, but you respond to Harry's posts on a regular and daily
basis. I didn't question the fact that you have him filtered. I
simply stated that you still respond to his posts based on what you see
quoted in other people's posts.

Why are you so intent on making a regular fool of yourself?



Why do you feel like it's your place to point that out? Am I the only
one you feel superior to here? Time to plonk you again, you really have
nothing to add that harry couldn't with a quick search of google...

That's not true. Richard knows far more about electricity and how it
works than I shall ever know, even with the help of google.
Interestingly, though, both of us know when to bring in a licensed
electrician.

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail




Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units.

I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things
however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing
I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed
because they received bad input.

Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp
service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker.
There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of
them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200
amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized
for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of
the total service?

See if the answer is in your "electrical" book.







Your question shouldn't phase him a bit.

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :)


and heavy duty algebra at that.


You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase
and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors)

The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from)



I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe
you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of
"Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt.

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/18/2014 2:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net
current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current
through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :)


and heavy duty algebra at that.


You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase
and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors)

The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from)



I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe
you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of
"Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt.


In three phase power circuits the total wattage is the average voltage
of each leg x the average current of each leg x a power factor x the
sq.rt of 3 (1.73)

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/18/14, 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 2:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net
current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current
through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :)


and heavy duty algebra at that.


You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase
and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors)

The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from)



I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe
you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of
"Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt.


In three phase power circuits the total wattage is the average voltage
of each leg x the average current of each leg x a power factor x the
sq.rt of 3 (1.73)




Eureka! Thanks. Never knew that. :)

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/18/2014 2:46 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 2:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot"
legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net
current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current
through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :)


and heavy duty algebra at that.


You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase
and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors)

The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from)



I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe
you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of
"Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt.


In three phase power circuits the total wattage is the average voltage
of each leg x the average current of each leg x a power factor x the
sq.rt of 3 (1.73)




Eureka! Thanks. Never knew that. :)

Write that down in the notes section of your pocket dictionary.

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 7:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina
office. I
haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250.
The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs
and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X
and Y
is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how
do we
tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like
that? So
far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail





Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...


Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise.

:)

Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to
the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the
wiring".

I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I
take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and
(like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a
massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to
drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge
"hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12
volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could
be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire
was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire.



I'm not a fan of taking unnecessary physical, fire or explosion risks,
so I don't do wiring any more difficult than replacing a switch or a
light fixture. We haven't really had any serious electrical issues
here. The wiring for our generator was handled by the contractor's
licensed electricians.
Thank you for your invaluable input.

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/19/2014 7:54 PM, Earl wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 7:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina
office. I
haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250.
The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs
and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X
and Y
is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how
do we
tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like
that? So
far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail





Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...


Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise.

:)

Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to
the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the
wiring".

I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I
take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and
(like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a
massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to
drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge
"hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12
volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could
be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire
was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire.



I'm not a fan of taking unnecessary physical, fire or explosion risks,
so I don't do wiring any more difficult than replacing a switch or a
light fixture. We haven't really had any serious electrical issues
here. The wiring for our generator was handled by the contractor's
licensed electricians.
Thank you for your invaluable input.

I think the whole idea was to "knock" me.. it's always good though cause
I just shut off rec.boats for a day and it goes away:) Of course another
lib gets to "bully" another opinion off the table, but so be it..
Anyway, my point was "I use a book whenever I do this stuff" even the
stuff I know well like plumbing, etc.

Anyway, I went and looked at my book and realized that the hookup the
guy was asking about was above my pay grade so of course I wouldn't have
taken it on, even with my book...

Hey, I know I'm no expert but I do maintain a 100 year old house and
from water delivery, septic, plumbing, heat, electrical, paint,
structure... I do manage to get it all done, by myself, me and my stupid
books.. And when I need a hole dug, I hire a pro with bigger tools:)
other than that, I get by.

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/19/14, 8:41 PM, KC wrote:

F*O*A*D wrote:

I'm not a fan of taking unnecessary physical, fire or explosion risks,
so I don't do wiring any more difficult than replacing a switch or a
light fixture. We haven't really had any serious electrical issues
here. The wiring for our generator was handled by the contractor's
licensed electricians.


I think the whole idea was to "knock" me..

The world isn't about you, psycho.


--
Rand Paul & Ted Cruz…your 2016 GOP nominees, because ‘Mericans deserve
crazy!

??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
 

On 3/19/2014 8:41 PM, KC wrote:
And when I need a hole dug, I hire a pro with bigger tools:) other than
that, I get by.

Don't feel bad. Harry had to hire an expert to skillfully dig his post
holes.