On 2/14/2014 10:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg




http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif




To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering




I'll have to remember that the next time I do wheelies around trees and
cars.



Nice dodge...

On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg



http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif



To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic.

On 2/14/2014 9:41 AM, True North wrote:
Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago.
You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable.

Remember Donnie, countersteering doesn't apply to Toyotas.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:46:52 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg


http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif


To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering


Whoever told you that most assuredly wasn't talking about unicycles or sliding or standing on the
front tire or any other tricky things. But I'm glad you learned something from our discussion.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 06:41:37 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago.
You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable.

It's a real shame that learning something about riding takes away 'all the fun' from what you
remember.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 06:41:37 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago.
You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable.

You told us already.

On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg




http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif




To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give
it one more shot...

On 2/14/2014 11:14 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:46:52 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg


http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif


To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering


Whoever told you that most assuredly wasn't talking about unicycles or sliding or standing on the
front tire or any other tricky things. But I'm glad you learned something from our discussion.


Yes, I learned that when folks get stubborn, miscommunication happens...

On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that
'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg





http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif





To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own
magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give
it one more shot...

I really think we've heard enough on this topic.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:13:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg



http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif



To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering




I'll have to remember that the next time I do wheelies around trees and
cars.

LOL!

I'm working on a way to make my Guzzi a unicycle.