This was originally posted in the 'Windows XP end of support' thread, where it doesn't belong.
Luddite, something for you also, at the end.

Scotty, I spent a good part of yesterday trying to explain to you what really happens when you turn
a motorcycle. You chose not to believe it, came up with ridiculous 'arguments', put up a picture of
a dirt bike in a slide, argued against Wikipedia, expert rider videos, and a Motorcycle Safety
Instructor. Then you started putting bull**** words in my mouth and comparing me to Harry and Kevin.
After trying to keep a level head, I gave up. That's when I said I'd just made up the whole thing.
By looking at Google, Wikipedia, videos, etc, you should have realized I was bull****ting when I
said I made it all up. But I'm thinking that was the only thing you took seriously.

OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg

http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif

To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Here is another great use for counter steering. (Luddite, if you're reading, you may be able to use
this also.)

Very often I see riders coming to a stop with both feet down, sliding on the ground, because they
don't know which way the bike will lean when it finally stops. I call it a 'four point landing'. A
sure-fire way of knowing which way the bike will lean is to give the left handlebar a little push -
just before the bike completely stops. This will cause the bike to lean left a bit just as it stops,
and you put your left foot down as you stop. That way you can continue to use your foot brake as you
are stopping. I call that the 'three point landing'.

On 2/14/2014 7:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
This was originally posted in the 'Windows XP end of support' thread, where it doesn't belong.
Luddite, something for you also, at the end.

Scotty, I spent a good part of yesterday trying to explain to you what really happens when you turn
a motorcycle. You chose not to believe it, came up with ridiculous 'arguments', put up a picture of
a dirt bike in a slide, argued against Wikipedia, expert rider videos, and a Motorcycle Safety
Instructor. Then you started putting bull**** words in my mouth and comparing me to Harry and Kevin.
After trying to keep a level head, I gave up. That's when I said I'd just made up the whole thing.
By looking at Google, Wikipedia, videos, etc, you should have realized I was bull****ting when I
said I made it all up. But I'm thinking that was the only thing you took seriously.

OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg

http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif

To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Here is another great use for counter steering. (Luddite, if you're reading, you may be able to use
this also.)

Very often I see riders coming to a stop with both feet down, sliding on the ground, because they
don't know which way the bike will lean when it finally stops. I call it a 'four point landing'. A
sure-fire way of knowing which way the bike will lean is to give the left handlebar a little push -
just before the bike completely stops. This will cause the bike to lean left a bit just as it stops,
and you put your left foot down as you stop. That way you can continue to use your foot brake as you
are stopping. I call that the 'three point landing'.



Good tip. (pun intended).

On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg

http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif

To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg


http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif


To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg


http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif


To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.

On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg


http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif


To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering

On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg



http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif



To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering




I'll have to remember that the next time I do wheelies around trees and
cars.

On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg



http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif



To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:46:52 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg


http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif


To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering


Whoever told you that most assuredly wasn't talking about unicycles or sliding or standing on the
front tire or any other tricky things. But I'm glad you learned something from our discussion.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 07:50:10 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg

http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif

To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek



Dirt bikes are somewhat different in that you're sliding a lot. But for normal turns, the operations
are the same.

Scotty posted a picture yesterday that he called 'countersteering' in which the operator had the
handlebar cranked hard left while making some type of turn. I think the operator in that case had a
slide going on and was turning into the slide to stay upright.