Shooting the P226...
 

On 2/6/2014 2:30 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:38:30 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:46 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:05:48 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 12:58:37 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:23:44 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/5/14, 11:19 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 10:24:14 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/5/14, 10:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
...is great! Took it to the range yesterday and put a hundred rounds through it. That gun is smooth
as silk. Two law enforcement folks saw the gun and asked what it was. I let them shoot it, and they
loved it also. I will admit right up front that these guys were much more accurate than I was! They
were hitting the man-sized silhouette targets at 25 yards with no sweat.

They got me thinking of taking a shooting class.


They were hitting man-sized targets at 25 yards, and that makes them
more accurate than you are? They should be able to put six shots in a
pie tin sized area of that man-sized target at 25 yards, and that would
only make them "OK" shots.

Don't get into a gunfight. :)

They demonstrated their abilities to out shoot me at the 7 yard range. I didn't try any shots at
their targets. I can't see well enough to see where they were placing their rounds in the big
targets.


Oh, seven yards. Yeah, that's the typical cop range, and also the "self
defense" range most of the instructors use.

The 'tests' they were doing had them shooting at targets from about 2 yards (quick draw and fire)
out to 25 yards. Probably more at 7 yards than anywhere else.

You should be able to shoot
offhanded and put six in a circle no larger than a navel orange at seven
yards if you can see decently with your glasses. Rx shooting glasses
might help, with one lens set for the distance from your eye to about a
foot beyond the front sight, and the other set for distance.

That is a problem. My computer/reading glasses are just right for the front sight, but the target is
a blur. My distance/reading glasses are great for the target, but the sights are a blur. As for the
navel orange...I'm thinking more a mandarin.

And, I hate the idea of some MS13 guy breaking into my house and me having to say, "Just a minute, I
have to find my Rx shooting glasses!"

You sound like the perfect candidate for a laser

At the range the other day someone had a laser on their gun. The target was at the 7 yard range, and
all I could see was the red spot. It was dancing all over the target like the guy was playing with a
cat. It was obvious he was trying to use it to aim, but he couldn't get it still enough. So, he shut
it off. Of course most of the folks there were laughing under their breath.

Anyway, I learned never to take a laser to the range. I'm not steady enough.


Some of the laser systems have a "dance" mode and a steady mode. One of
the handguns I have or had does that, but I can't remember which one.
I never use the laser anyway

Never heard of it. You're not talking about lasers on a stage are you?

I doubt I'd leave a laser on the gun, but I like Wayne's (and Gregg's) ideas of using it to practice
'steadiness'. That can be done using a wall at home. (Maybe using that picture of Harry.) :)



It was the S&W Bodyguard that had it. "Dancing" is not an appropriate
term although at a distance, that's what it appears to be doing. In
reality it's a laser with two operating modes ... constant on and
"pulse". At a distance the "pulse" mode produces an exaggerated
movement of the laser due to the gun moving in your hand. Here's a
youtube video ... skip ahead to 10:45 to see the laser in both modes
(but at a close distance).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w833r...ature=youtu.be

Shooting the P226...
 

On 2/6/14, 2:20 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:28:04 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 12:15:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

A shotgun is much better for home defense than a pistol.

I always hear that but I wonder if the theory has ever been tested.

Where do you keep this shotgun and what kind is it?

Do you keep it loaded?

What ammo?

Are you planning on just hiding behind the bed or are you going to
leave your bedroom?

I really question the idea of getting to a long gun safe, loading a
tube fed shotgun and actually maneuvering around the house with a full
sized sporting shotgun without someone taking it away from you.
If you are loaded with 00 buck, you might as well be using a .45 as
far as over penetration goes and the pattern on an 18" cylinder bore
is still going to be a couple inches at any range you are likely to
have in the house so you still have to aim. Where is the advantage?

That Biden quote may have been the stupidest thing I have ever heard,
even from Biden.



There are at least two advantages to a short barrel but legal shotgun
for home defense:

Aim is important, but a tad less so than with a pistol since unchoked
the pellets will have a wider spread than a bullet. Shotgun pellets are
less likely to penetrate multiple panels of drywall and kill a kid or
your wife two rooms away.

You missed these questions. I'd find your answers interesting.

Where do you keep this shotgun and what kind is it?

Do you keep it loaded?

What ammo?

Are you planning on just hiding behind the bed or are you going to
leave your bedroom?


1. Where I can get to it in a hurry

2. Mossberg 590A1 like this: http://tinyurl.com/pv96f9d

3. Yes

4. #1 buckshot

5. Depends

Shooting the P226...
 

On 2/6/2014 2:29 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:51:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Thank you too for the laser info.


I'd add this comment for what it's worth:

If you shoot at an outdoor range and the target is exposed to sunshine
the lasers they put on handguns become worthless beyond a few yards.
The only laser equipped firearm I have with a laser strong enough to be
seen at any reasonable distance is the Ruger .22 rifle.

===

For outdoor sunlight you need a green laser. My works fine out to 10
yards or so, not so much after that. Of course for working on your
stance and grip at home, any color will do.


Never knew that. I figure the Lone Ranger and Tonto had to do without
lasers, so I can too. :-)

Shooting the P226...
 

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:58:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:51 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:11:23 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 17:30:52 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/5/14, 5:21 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

How do they compare size wise? The one good thing about the Bodyguard
is that it was a good pocket size pistol. Problem was that if I ever
had to use it in a hurry for self-defense I'd probably hit the sucker in
the foot.



Pocket pistols give me the creepies. I dunno why. If I were buying a
carry pistol, it wouldn't fit in my pocket. My fav revolver probably is
the S&W 686.

You still should have a holster, even for a pocket pistol. I agree I
don't like the pocket idea either. When I was carrying I used a cross
draw hip carry or the good old shoulder holster if I was wearing a
suit. Both were accessible in the car.
Both

I was thinking about Dick's post last night. I'm halfway thinking of getting one of these:

http://www.sneakypeteholsters.com/te...ide-image2.png

They come especially made for various pistols, including the P938.

And then I wondered, why not just carry it in the front pocket of my jeans - without a holster. What
does the pocket holster do for you?



Heh. I had one of those. Gave it to my wife. She carries her
cellphone and other junk in it. The idea of the pocket holster is
three fold. One, it keeps the gun and barrel clean of crap you might
have in the bottom of your pocket and two, it holds it in a position
that is easy to withdraw and three, prevents catching things like the
trigger on your pants. The one I had for the Bodyguard was this one:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/361/361065.jpg

Inexpensive and worked well.


That was one of the points of that type holster - that it would be thought to hold cell phones or
other junk.

But, I like your idea. This is on the way.

http://images1.opticsplanet.com/755-...ter-pro664.jpg

Might have to try one of the Sneaky Pete holsters anyway. That pocket thing may not be comfortable
on the motorcycle.

Shooting the P226...
 

On 2/6/2014 3:26 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:58:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:51 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:11:23 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 17:30:52 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/5/14, 5:21 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

How do they compare size wise? The one good thing about the Bodyguard
is that it was a good pocket size pistol. Problem was that if I ever
had to use it in a hurry for self-defense I'd probably hit the sucker in
the foot.



Pocket pistols give me the creepies. I dunno why. If I were buying a
carry pistol, it wouldn't fit in my pocket. My fav revolver probably is
the S&W 686.

You still should have a holster, even for a pocket pistol. I agree I
don't like the pocket idea either. When I was carrying I used a cross
draw hip carry or the good old shoulder holster if I was wearing a
suit. Both were accessible in the car.
Both

I was thinking about Dick's post last night. I'm halfway thinking of getting one of these:

http://www.sneakypeteholsters.com/te...ide-image2.png

They come especially made for various pistols, including the P938.

And then I wondered, why not just carry it in the front pocket of my jeans - without a holster. What
does the pocket holster do for you?



Heh. I had one of those. Gave it to my wife. She carries her
cellphone and other junk in it. The idea of the pocket holster is
three fold. One, it keeps the gun and barrel clean of crap you might
have in the bottom of your pocket and two, it holds it in a position
that is easy to withdraw and three, prevents catching things like the
trigger on your pants. The one I had for the Bodyguard was this one:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/361/361065.jpg

Inexpensive and worked well.


That was one of the points of that type holster - that it would be thought to hold cell phones or
other junk.

But, I like your idea. This is on the way.

http://images1.opticsplanet.com/755-...ter-pro664.jpg

Might have to try one of the Sneaky Pete holsters anyway. That pocket thing may not be comfortable
on the motorcycle.



Is that one open at the barrel end? Probably fine but I liked the idea
of having the end of closed off to prevent crap from getting in the end
of the barrel. Probably doesn't matter if it's only lint.

Shooting the P226...
 

On 2/6/2014 3:26 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:58:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:51 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:11:23 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 17:30:52 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/5/14, 5:21 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

How do they compare size wise? The one good thing about the Bodyguard
is that it was a good pocket size pistol. Problem was that if I ever
had to use it in a hurry for self-defense I'd probably hit the sucker in
the foot.



Pocket pistols give me the creepies. I dunno why. If I were buying a
carry pistol, it wouldn't fit in my pocket. My fav revolver probably is
the S&W 686.

You still should have a holster, even for a pocket pistol. I agree I
don't like the pocket idea either. When I was carrying I used a cross
draw hip carry or the good old shoulder holster if I was wearing a
suit. Both were accessible in the car.
Both

I was thinking about Dick's post last night. I'm halfway thinking of getting one of these:

http://www.sneakypeteholsters.com/te...ide-image2.png

They come especially made for various pistols, including the P938.

And then I wondered, why not just carry it in the front pocket of my jeans - without a holster. What
does the pocket holster do for you?



Heh. I had one of those. Gave it to my wife. She carries her
cellphone and other junk in it. The idea of the pocket holster is
three fold. One, it keeps the gun and barrel clean of crap you might
have in the bottom of your pocket and two, it holds it in a position
that is easy to withdraw and three, prevents catching things like the
trigger on your pants. The one I had for the Bodyguard was this one:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/361/361065.jpg

Inexpensive and worked well.


That was one of the points of that type holster - that it would be thought to hold cell phones or
other junk.

But, I like your idea. This is on the way.

http://images1.opticsplanet.com/755-...ter-pro664.jpg

Might have to try one of the Sneaky Pete holsters anyway. That pocket thing may not be comfortable
on the motorcycle.



Somewhere I read about people who use pocket holsters modifying their
pants pocket (usually jeans) by sewing it closed just below where the
bottom of the holster would sit with the gun grip just below the top of
the pocket. Keeps it concealed but easy to draw.
I never bothered.

Shooting the P226...
 

On Thursday, February 6, 2014 2:22:11 PM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote:


Never knew that. I figure the Lone Ranger and Tonto had to do without

lasers, so I can too. :-)


No scopes either

Shooting the P226...
 

Tim wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:36:12 PM UTC-6, KC wrote:
On 2/6/2014 2:18 PM, Poco Loco wrote:

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:20:55 -0500, wrote:



On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 12:15:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



A shotgun is much better for home defense than a pistol.



I always hear that but I wonder if the theory has ever been tested.



Where do you keep this shotgun and what kind is it?



Do you keep it loaded?



What ammo?



Are you planning on just hiding behind the bed or are you going to

leave your bedroom?



I really question the idea of getting to a long gun safe, loading a

tube fed shotgun and actually maneuvering around the house with a full

sized sporting shotgun without someone taking it away from you.

If you are loaded with 00 buck, you might as well be using a .45 as

far as over penetration goes and the pattern on an 18" cylinder bore

is still going to be a couple inches at any range you are likely to

have in the house so you still have to aim. Where is the advantage?



That Biden quote may have been the stupidest thing I have ever heard,

even from Biden.



...and putting it under your pillow is not very comfortable.





A freind suggested the Judge with two snake eaters, then two wad

cutters".. Said "you hit 'em in the face twice with the snakeeaters,

then while they are laying on the floor, ask them if they want to taste

the wadcutters in the next two chambers:)"

A Judge? Now those things are neat. a pistol that shoots a .410 shotgun
round. Yeah, I can see that peppering someone with bird shot at least
once if not twice, then block busters for further non compliance.


Good call!

Sort of like a LaMatt from 1860's.
Load the .410 with a couple #4 or bigger shot.

Shooting the P226...
 

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 2/6/14, 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 12:15:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

A shotgun is much better for home defense than a pistol.

I always hear that but I wonder if the theory has ever been tested.

Where do you keep this shotgun and what kind is it?

Do you keep it loaded?

What ammo?

Are you planning on just hiding behind the bed or are you going to
leave your bedroom?

I really question the idea of getting to a long gun safe, loading a
tube fed shotgun and actually maneuvering around the house with a full
sized sporting shotgun without someone taking it away from you.
If you are loaded with 00 buck, you might as well be using a .45 as
far as over penetration goes and the pattern on an 18" cylinder bore
is still going to be a couple inches at any range you are likely to
have in the house so you still have to aim. Where is the advantage?

That Biden quote may have been the stupidest thing I have ever heard,
even from Biden.



There are at least two advantages to a short barrel but legal shotgun for home defense:

Aim is important, but a tad less so than with a pistol since unchoked the
pellets will have a wider spread than a bullet. Shotgun pellets are less
likely to penetrate multiple panels of drywall and kill a kid or your wife two rooms away.

The spread of a shotgun in the house is negligible in the less than 12' you
would be shooting. Length is a real handicap. Major reason the Military
went to M16 type weapons. Lighter and shorter. The Israelis designed the
Tavor for just this type urban combat. Full length barrel in a Bullpup
design short weapon. If you had an old Ithaca Auto & Burglar 20 ga that
would be ideal. Illegal without the correct FFL stuff.

Shooting the P226...
 

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 2/6/14, 12:08 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 10:09:31 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/6/2014 9:57 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:52 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/6/14, 8:46 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:05:48 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 12:58:37 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:23:44 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/5/14, 11:19 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 10:24:14 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/5/14, 10:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
...is great! Took it to the range yesterday and put a hundred
rounds through it. That gun is smooth
as silk. Two law enforcement folks saw the gun and asked what it
was. I let them shoot it, and they
loved it also. I will admit right up front that these guys were
much more accurate than I was! They
were hitting the man-sized silhouette targets at 25 yards with
no sweat.

They got me thinking of taking a shooting class.


They were hitting man-sized targets at 25 yards, and that makes
them
more accurate than you are? They should be able to put six shots
in a
pie tin sized area of that man-sized target at 25 yards, and that
would
only make them "OK" shots.

Don't get into a gunfight. :)

They demonstrated their abilities to out shoot me at the 7 yard
range. I didn't try any shots at
their targets. I can't see well enough to see where they were
placing their rounds in the big
targets.


Oh, seven yards. Yeah, that's the typical cop range, and also the
"self
defense" range most of the instructors use.

The 'tests' they were doing had them shooting at targets from about
2 yards (quick draw and fire)
out to 25 yards. Probably more at 7 yards than anywhere else.

You should be able to shoot
offhanded and put six in a circle no larger than a navel orange at
seven
yards if you can see decently with your glasses. Rx shooting glasses
might help, with one lens set for the distance from your eye to
about a
foot beyond the front sight, and the other set for distance.

That is a problem. My computer/reading glasses are just right for
the front sight, but the target is
a blur. My distance/reading glasses are great for the target, but
the sights are a blur. As for the
navel orange...I'm thinking more a mandarin.

And, I hate the idea of some MS13 guy breaking into my house and me
having to say, "Just a minute, I
have to find my Rx shooting glasses!"

You sound like the perfect candidate for a laser

At the range the other day someone had a laser on their gun. The
target was at the 7 yard range, and
all I could see was the red spot. It was dancing all over the target
like the guy was playing with a
cat. It was obvious he was trying to use it to aim, but he couldn't
get it still enough. So, he shut
it off. Of course most of the folks there were laughing under their
breath.

Anyway, I learned never to take a laser to the range. I'm not steady
enough.



I have a pair of "shooting glasses," as I described above. Call your
opthalmologist, tell him you are bringing an unloaded pistol so he can
fix you up with a pair. You'll be astonished at the difference it makes
in your accuracy when you can see the rear and front sight *and* the
target.
Do you keep your shooting glasses on your night stand at night? Do you
wear your shooting glasses when you carry?

Why, you don't think honing your skills with the glasses would help you
in a situation where you didn't have them? I totally disagree, we train
for muscle memory and repetition of form. Lets put it this way, you
train for form and ideal reaction in the gym with everything controlled,
so when you are out there and are out of control or things are happening
faster than you can consciously process them or the situation is not
ideal, your instincts take over.... and you perform as close to perfect
as your training is... In Johns case, (well maybe not John sounds like
he needs a bit more range time:) say Tim, I suppose he could take out a
burgler in the dark, without his glasses anyway...

I'd think honing your skills with the equipment you normally carry would
be the appropriate thing to
do. Like I said at the beginning, I don't want to have to tell those
MS13 guys running rampant in my
neighborhood, according to Harry, to wait while I hunt down my 'shooting glasses'.


A shotgun is much better for home defense than a pistol.

That is debatable. Hard to swing the weapon fast enough in close quarters
and you can hit the barrel on a table or chair. If you take a position
behind a bed or other fixed position yes. If you hit them with the shot,
that will end things. Your 9mm maybe not. No real stopping power. 45 acp
stopping power and will not kill somebody down the block after passing
through a couple houses.