On 1/20/2014 9:47 PM, wrote:

Here are my bill for last year.
Jan $251 1985
Feb $224 1756
Mar $220 1725
April $198 1536
May $201 1561
June $377 3057
July $369 2985
Aug $401 3254
Sept $374 3025
Oct $332 2669
Nov $222 1733

June, July, Aug and Sept, are a little surprise to me. We have a
business that uses 12 chest freezers at our home, those months
are hot and the freezers are in an outdoor covered building. Our
electric bill usually runs pretty high those months. I've had
$500+ electric bills. Must have been a cooler summer.
I get letters from the power company telling me I'm in the 99th
percentile of usage and here are the ways to save on electricity.
Then in Nov, I get the usage letter and they tell me how I have
dropped down to the 70th percentile :-)
Mike

On 1/20/2014 9:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 14:50:35 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 1/20/2014 2:32 PM, wrote:


the EPA calc is $7.23 a year to run it.
That is less than 60 cents a month.

Do you know what the EPA uses as the cost for aKwh?
How many hours per day do they use?
Mikek

I don't know and I didn't have much luck looking. I see a lot of
calculators but nothing about how they get the number they print on
the box.

Obviously if you are getting that cut rate power Harry gets the number
will be different than you get with the gold plated 45 cent California
power.


Interesting comparison of California to Texas.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/4CDFxeB7Y-s
Mikek

On 1/20/2014 10:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 14:50:35 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 1/20/2014 2:32 PM, wrote:


the EPA calc is $7.23 a year to run it.
That is less than 60 cents a month.

Do you know what the EPA uses as the cost for aKwh?
How many hours per day do they use?
Mikek

I don't know and I didn't have much luck looking. I see a lot of
calculators but nothing about how they get the number they print on
the box.

Obviously if you are getting that cut rate power Harry gets the number
will be different than you get with the gold plated 45 cent California
power.



Cree claims an annual operating cost of $1.14 for their least efficient
LED bulb, based on running 3 hours a day. They don't say what the cost
of electricity is.

Assuming they are using a realistic rate that means it would cost under
$10 a year to leave it on 24/7.

Here's an impressive and recent article. Outdoor high pressure sodium
lighting at Munich Airport in Germany is being replaced with Cree LED
lighting.

"The airport expects the new flood lights featuring Cree LEDs to consume
at least 50 percent less energy than the previously-installed
high-pressure sodium lamps, which would result in yearly electricity
savings of 122,000 kilowatt-hours and approximately 70 tons of CO2 on
completion of phase one of the lighting overhaul."

There's a picture of the new lighting shown. They used the brilliant
white color temperature and the result is much better and more natural
lighting than the high pressure sodium lights they are replacing.

http://optics.org/news/5/1/21

On 1/20/2014 11:16 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 19:03:48 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


Since we had our genny installed, we haven't had a power outage that
lasts more than a couple of minutes. We take credit for that!

Me too, since I bought a generator, I have not had anything worth
going out and flipping the transfer switch.
(not automatic)

I am glad I saved that $5000 ;-)



The only way I could justify a whole house generator is if there was a
permanent and direct fuel supply to it, like natural gas. Otherwise it
doesn't make sense to me.

A short term (meaning 1 or 2 day) loss of power is manageable using a
small generator like the little Honda.

The problem I'd have with a large, whole house generator is fuel. We
don't have natural gas coming up to the house so the generator would
have to be propane, gas or diesel. We have a 100 gal propane tank that
feeds a Hot Dawg garage heater but a whole house generator would drain a
full tank of propane in a couple of days. Since long term power outages
up here are due to winter snowstorms, it's unlikely we could get a
propane delivery every other day. Same with diesel.

I learned that lesson in Florida following Hurricane Wilma. I had just
purchased the little Honda and had also purchased a 12KW gasoline
powered generator and wired it into the main panel. It wouldn't power
everything, but I could selectively turn on what was needed (well pump,
water heater, certain room outlets, refrigerator, microwave, etc.)

I thought I was well prepared with about 6, five gallon gasoline
containers. Not so. That 12kw generator burned far more gas than I
expected and it was clear that my supply would only last two or three
days at best. So I used it sparingly and had the little Honda running
24/7 to power a refrigerator, couple of lights, the Direct TV box and a
TV. The Honda sips fuel, running almost 24 hours on two gallons or less.

We were powerless for just over a week following Wilma and gas, if you
could find a station with aux power, was scarce.

When we installed our pool eight years ago (up here in MA) the
electrical contractor tried to sell me a whole house generator, telling
me it could be fueled by the propane tank we use for the garage heater.
He specified a 20kw generator for our house. I doubt a full tank of
propane would last 2 days.

We ran underground conduit and wiring for one, but I held off on the
generator. In the eight years since, we've only experienced two longer
term power outages, both due to winter storms. Each lasted about 3 days
and the little Honda got us through them both.

On 1/20/2014 11:30 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 20:22:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



I am talking about power that remains on but the voltage droops to
levels that cause excessive current to be drawn when something like an
air conditioning compressor starts. I saw the normal 120 vac drop to as
low as 105 vac in Florida, which means the primary service of 240 volts
that the AC units run on was drooping to about 210 volts. That's damn
close to the +/- 15 percent most appliances will tolerate.


That has never really been a problem in Ft Myers, even when I was in
the computer biz and really watched that stuff.
I still have a Dranitz 626 (disturbance recorder) I can hook up if I
suspect a problem but my Weston 901 is hooked up all the time. I see
123-124 all the time.



I've forgotten who the power company was we had in Jupiter but the
voltage was all over the place. Scary because we were only there for
the winter months when demand was probably less.

At one time we had an RV that I had parked in the yard and had run power
to. I had to get a buck/boast autotransformer for it to make sure the
voltage remained high enough to easily start the AC unit when needed.

On 1/20/14, 10:24 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:53:34 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/20/14, 3:41 PM, wrote:


A calculator.
$50 at 0.15 a KWH is 333.33333333 KWH
Divided by 30 is 11.111111 KWH a day

The only variable is what is your cost for power, more accurately what
is the incremental cost, minus the fixed charges that you pay anyway.
I bet it is less than 15 cents ... unless you are in California.
I pay 13 cents top line to bottom line and using less power would
actually make that more per KWH because the fixed charges stay the
same..



The last time I looked, the rates around here were 8.15 cents to 9.74
cents, so, you're paying about a third more for electric than we are.
Interesting. Must be higher quality electricity.


How are you looking at that?
Is that total bill divided by KWH?



I don't really know how the bill is determined. The rates for
residential electricity from the various power companies in Maryland are
posted on-line per state regulation.

On 1/21/14, 5:53 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 11:16 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 19:03:48 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


Since we had our genny installed, we haven't had a power outage that
lasts more than a couple of minutes. We take credit for that!

Me too, since I bought a generator, I have not had anything worth
going out and flipping the transfer switch.
(not automatic)

I am glad I saved that $5000 ;-)



The only way I could justify a whole house generator is if there was a
permanent and direct fuel supply to it, like natural gas. Otherwise it
doesn't make sense to me.

A short term (meaning 1 or 2 day) loss of power is manageable using a
small generator like the little Honda.

The problem I'd have with a large, whole house generator is fuel. We
don't have natural gas coming up to the house so the generator would
have to be propane, gas or diesel. We have a 100 gal propane tank that
feeds a Hot Dawg garage heater but a whole house generator would drain a
full tank of propane in a couple of days. Since long term power outages
up here are due to winter snowstorms, it's unlikely we could get a
propane delivery every other day. Same with diesel.

I learned that lesson in Florida following Hurricane Wilma. I had just
purchased the little Honda and had also purchased a 12KW gasoline
powered generator and wired it into the main panel. It wouldn't power
everything, but I could selectively turn on what was needed (well pump,
water heater, certain room outlets, refrigerator, microwave, etc.)

I thought I was well prepared with about 6, five gallon gasoline
containers. Not so. That 12kw generator burned far more gas than I
expected and it was clear that my supply would only last two or three
days at best. So I used it sparingly and had the little Honda running
24/7 to power a refrigerator, couple of lights, the Direct TV box and a
TV. The Honda sips fuel, running almost 24 hours on two gallons or less.

We were powerless for just over a week following Wilma and gas, if you
could find a station with aux power, was scarce.

When we installed our pool eight years ago (up here in MA) the
electrical contractor tried to sell me a whole house generator, telling
me it could be fueled by the propane tank we use for the garage heater.
He specified a 20kw generator for our house. I doubt a full tank of
propane would last 2 days.

We ran underground conduit and wiring for one, but I held off on the
generator. In the eight years since, we've only experienced two longer
term power outages, both due to winter storms. Each lasted about 3 days
and the little Honda got us through them both.








We have a 500 gallon buried tank, so it gets filled to 400 gallons. I
think our genny burns about 1.75 gph at half load, so at any time during
the month between tank top-offs, we should have at least a week of run
time, probably more if it is winter, because the larger of our two heat
pumps primarily runs off propane anyway, so if the power goes out, the
only additional load for heat from the generator will be to run the
compressor and furnace fan. The smaller heat pump is not on generator
backup.

The longest power outage we have had here to date was five days. It was
hot outside and it was miserable.

On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 4:53:47 AM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 11:16 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 19:03:48 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:





Since we had our genny installed, we haven't had a power outage that

lasts more than a couple of minutes. We take credit for that!



Me too, since I bought a generator, I have not had anything worth

going out and flipping the transfer switch.

(not automatic)



I am glad I saved that $5000 ;-)



You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

On 1/20/2014 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:22:07 -0500, Hank wrote:


Heres my avg monthly kwh for the past 5 years 2078 2301 2326 2089 1784.
Have fun with those numbers.

12/31/2013 34 2209 $236.55 Electric Bill
11/27/2013 28 1667 $175.05 Electric Bill
10/30/2013 30 2278 $244.37 Electric Bill
09/30/2013 31 2567 $273.18 Electric Bill
08/30/2013 30 2427 $258.80 Electric Bill
07/31/2013 33 2407 $256.56 Electric Bill
06/28/2013 28 2259 $239.92 Electric Bill
05/31/2013 31 2032 $214.40 Electric Bill
04/30/2013 32 2010 $211.92 Electric Bill
03/29/2013 29 1895 $198.61 Electric Bill
02/28/2013 28 1658 $169.99 Electric Bill
01/31/2013 31 2097 $218.64 Electric Bill
12/31/2012 31 2464 $262.28 Electric Bill
11/30/2012 30 2021 $212.44 Electric Bill
10/31/2012 33 2569 $274.07 Electric Bill
09/28/2012 28 2129 $224.52 Electric Bill
08/31/2012 31 2439 $259.38 Electric Bill
07/31/2012 32 2547 $271.54 Electric Bill
06/29/2012 29 2084 $220.23 Electric Bill
05/31/2012 31 2128 $225.20 Electric Bill
04/30/2012 31 2040 $214.29 Electric Bill
03/30/2012 30 1786 $185.77 Electric Bill
02/29/2012 29 1795 $186.76 Electric Bill
01/31/2012 32 2101 $221.15 Electric Bill

Did you notice my 2013 monthly average was over $300 less than 2012.
Did you notice that 2013 was the lowest average in the last 5 years.
Prior to 2013 I was using incand., CFL, and fluorescent tubes.
I still have 8 4 ft tubes and 2 2 footers. The rest is LED.
I saved exactly $468 last year. Enough to buy 46 more LEDs @10 per.

On 1/20/2014 10:53 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:46:54 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/20/14, 4:40 PM, amdx wrote:

You're not that old, you probably had a TI-30.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-30 Note the Red LEDs.
Mikek


I believe the HP-30 and most other scientific calculators appeared after
I had received my M.A. We had a couple of clunky desktop calcs in the
math labs and our trusty K&E sliderules. In those days, you actually had
to know how to do the math, not that I was ever a whiz at math, but I
did ok.

I used to see calculators at work but they were big honking things
that cost as much as a small car. Around 1970 Intel released the 4004
processor showed up and the pocket calculator hit the market. A "4
banger" (add, subtract, multiply and divide) was still $100 in 1971. I
bought a Bomar.
A year later they would give you one free if you bought a tank of gas.


My first job out of the service was servicing electric adding machines.
They actually had service contracts with scheduled PMs. Them wuz the days.