Speaking of guns and horses
 

In article ,
says...

On 11/13/2013 2:11 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 11/13/2013 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 11:58:49 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

There are several of those cases working their way through the court
as we speak.


Florida? $25 fine, right?

2d degree misdemeanor
$500 and 60 days in jail for the first offense, if there are no other
charges present.

If you knowingly provided a weapon to a minor or anyone else who was
prohibited from having one you can get up into felony territory.



Here's the law in MA:

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm,
rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons,
or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked
container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other
safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable
by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.
For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or
kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully
authorized user.

(b) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a
firearm, rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon, by a fine
of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not
more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and in the
case of a large capacity weapon or machine gun, by a fine of not less
than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than
one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.


That's just for them finding out you didn't secure them as required.

The last sentence in (a) gives you an easy out.



It means to make damn well sure you lock 'em up before leaving the house.

"under control" is also very vague.

Speaking of guns and horses
 

On 11/13/13, 3:40 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 11/13/13, 12:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 11/13/13, 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 7:44 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/13/13, 7:38 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 7:18 AM, John H wrote:


The idea that a cop could search, warrantless, your home and this
would be acceptable is
unfathomable.


John H. -- Hope you're having a great day!




I agree that a search of your home without a warrant showing probable
cause is unfathomable. The sneaky thing about this selectman's proposal
is that the authorization for the cops to search is tied to your permit
to own firearms. In other words, you don't agree .. you can't legally
own a firearm. To me, his idea is that in order to qualify for a gun
permit you must give the police permission to enter and search your home
ahead of time.

If there is a local law requiring guns to be locked up safely, how is
that law to be enforced?

Here's an idea:

If you have a gun and it is supposed to be locked and a kid gets his
hands on it and shoots himself or someone else, *you* go to prison.

Or, if someone steals a firearm and you don't report it right away, you
go to prison.



Those are already distinct possibilities. You can be charged for
negligence and for not storing the firearms in the prescribed manner by
law.

This will **** off the Tea Party types here, but I would not object to
an inspection of my firearm storage. If a cop knocked on the door
right now and asked if I voluntarily agreed to him coming in and
checking how my guns are stored, I'd say, "Come on in".




I don't have any problem with such an inspection, either. There are no
kids running around here, and all but one home defense weapon are locked
up in a safe. We don't get many doorbell ringers around here, other than
UPS/FEDEX and the Sunday church ladies, and I always peek on the video
monitor before I open the door anyway. Anyone breaking in at night meets Mr. 12 Gauge.


Paranoid, or you live in a high crime district.


I have video cams around the exterior. Nothing paranoid about that.

What's paranoid about greeting someone breaking in at night with a 12 gauge?




Breaking in at night? Where was that mentioned. You commented about
answering the front door.


The last sentence of the the post to which you responded. The sentence
that reads" "Anyone breaking in at night meets Mr. 12 Gauge."

Reading is fundamental.

--
Religion: together we can find the cure.

Speaking of guns and horses
 

On 11/13/13, 3:41 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:24:23 PM UTC-5, True North wrote:

Man...you guys in Massachusetts are practically Canadians.

Congratulations. ~snerk~

There, I fixed it for you!

Changing other's posts? That's pretty childish.


It's all they have.

--
Religion: together we can find the cure.

Speaking of guns and horses
 

On 11/13/13, 3:57 PM, Charlemagne wrote:
On 11/13/2013 3:33 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:11:32 PM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...



On 11/13/2013 12:13 PM, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 11:58:49 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



There are several of those cases working their way through the court

as we speak.





Florida? $25 fine, right?



2d degree misdemeanor

$500 and 60 days in jail for the first offense, if there are no other

charges present.



If you knowingly provided a weapon to a minor or anyone else who was

prohibited from having one you can get up into felony territory.







Here's the law in MA:



Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm,

rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons,

or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked

container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other

safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable

by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or

kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully

authorized user.



(b) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a

firearm, rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon, by a
fine

of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not

more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and in the

case of a large capacity weapon or machine gun, by a fine of not less

than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than

one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and
imprisonment.





That's just for them finding out you didn't secure them as required.



The last sentence in (a) gives you an easy out.

Except that if you want to have quick access to one at night while you
sleep, it sounds like you must sleep with a holster. Having it under
the bed (12 gauge) or in a night stand drawer (9mm) doesn't sound like
it qualifies for that exemption. It has to either be locked up, or in
your hands/on your belt.


Refer to John.. he has it... it's all leading to confiscation, the
desired outcome. Problem is libs don't ever compromise, they just think
they are smarter than you..


The microorganisms in used kitty litter are smarter than you are.

--
Religion: together we can find the cure.

Speaking of guns and horses
 

No need for any snerking, seeing progressive attitudes down there gives me hope for the future of the USA.

Speaking of guns and horses
 

On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 3:41:15 PM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...



On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:24:23 PM UTC-5, True North wrote:



Man...you guys in Massachusetts are practically Canadians.



Congratulations. ~snerk~



There, I fixed it for you!



Changing other's posts? That's pretty childish.

Only if you do it without pointing it out. I didn't do that. Others have been caught changing text and leaving out text when quoting from other sources. That's not childish, that's dishonest.

I *can* point out some very childish posts. You won't like the originator of them, however.

Speaking of guns and horses
 

On 11/13/2013 3:33 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:11:32 PM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...



On 11/13/2013 12:13 PM, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 11:58:49 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



There are several of those cases working their way through the court

as we speak.





Florida? $25 fine, right?



2d degree misdemeanor

$500 and 60 days in jail for the first offense, if there are no other

charges present.



If you knowingly provided a weapon to a minor or anyone else who was

prohibited from having one you can get up into felony territory.







Here's the law in MA:



Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm,

rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons,

or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked

container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other

safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable

by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or

kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully

authorized user.



(b) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a

firearm, rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon, by a fine

of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not

more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and in the

case of a large capacity weapon or machine gun, by a fine of not less

than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than

one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.





That's just for them finding out you didn't secure them as required.



The last sentence in (a) gives you an easy out.

Except that if you want to have quick access to one at night while
you sleep, it sounds like you must sleep with a holster. Having it
under the bed (12 gauge) or in a night stand drawer (9mm) doesn't
sound like it qualifies for that exemption. It has to either be
locked up, or in your hands/on your belt.



I don't interpret it that way. Having it on or in a nightstand beside
your bed qualifies as "under direct control" I think. Same as having
one in the center compartment of your truck or car. It doesn't have to
physically be "on" you in order to be "under direct control".

In reality, in this state I suspect there would be an investigation and
even preliminary charges brought against you, even if you shot an
intruder in the middle of the night. Where the guns are kept would
become a minor point. MA has a castle law that can be used in your
defense in the event of a shooting, but I suspect you would have to
convince everyone that it was self defense. It's a squishy law in a
squishy state when it comes to guns. Our governor, Deval Patrick (we
call him "Minnie Me") is intent on tightening gun control laws further
to the point where very few would qualify for a new permit or renewals
of existing permits.

Speaking of guns and horses
 

On 11/13/2013 3:40 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 11/13/13, 12:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 11/13/13, 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 7:44 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/13/13, 7:38 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 7:18 AM, John H wrote:


The idea that a cop could search, warrantless, your home and this
would be acceptable is
unfathomable.


John H. -- Hope you're having a great day!




I agree that a search of your home without a warrant showing probable
cause is unfathomable. The sneaky thing about this selectman's proposal
is that the authorization for the cops to search is tied to your permit
to own firearms. In other words, you don't agree .. you can't legally
own a firearm. To me, his idea is that in order to qualify for a gun
permit you must give the police permission to enter and search your home
ahead of time.

If there is a local law requiring guns to be locked up safely, how is
that law to be enforced?

Here's an idea:

If you have a gun and it is supposed to be locked and a kid gets his
hands on it and shoots himself or someone else, *you* go to prison.

Or, if someone steals a firearm and you don't report it right away, you
go to prison.



Those are already distinct possibilities. You can be charged for
negligence and for not storing the firearms in the prescribed manner by
law.

This will **** off the Tea Party types here, but I would not object to
an inspection of my firearm storage. If a cop knocked on the door
right now and asked if I voluntarily agreed to him coming in and
checking how my guns are stored, I'd say, "Come on in".




I don't have any problem with such an inspection, either. There are no
kids running around here, and all but one home defense weapon are locked
up in a safe. We don't get many doorbell ringers around here, other than
UPS/FEDEX and the Sunday church ladies, and I always peek on the video
monitor before I open the door anyway. Anyone breaking in at night meets Mr. 12 Gauge.


Paranoid, or you live in a high crime district.


I have video cams around the exterior. Nothing paranoid about that.

What's paranoid about greeting someone breaking in at night with a 12 gauge?




Breaking in at night? Where was that mentioned. You commented about
answering the front door.


Bill, you must have missed the last sentence of Harry's post:
"Anyone breaking in at night meets Mr. 12 Gauge."

Speaking of guns and horses
 

In article ,
says...

On 11/13/2013 3:24 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 13:39:49 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

Probable cause is a joke

===

When they can search you or your car because a dog barked, I tend to
agree. I cringe when I see LEA K-9 dogs going up and down the waiting
area in airports sniffing out carry on luggage.



Everyone should pack a fresh Milkbone in their luggage. That could
cause some excitement.

Yeah it would!

Speaking of guns and horses
 

In article , says...

On 11/13/13, 3:40 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 11/13/13, 12:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 11/13/13, 7:57 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 7:44 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 11/13/13, 7:38 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 7:18 AM, John H wrote:


The idea that a cop could search, warrantless, your home and this
would be acceptable is
unfathomable.


John H. -- Hope you're having a great day!




I agree that a search of your home without a warrant showing probable
cause is unfathomable. The sneaky thing about this selectman's proposal
is that the authorization for the cops to search is tied to your permit
to own firearms. In other words, you don't agree .. you can't legally
own a firearm. To me, his idea is that in order to qualify for a gun
permit you must give the police permission to enter and search your home
ahead of time.

If there is a local law requiring guns to be locked up safely, how is
that law to be enforced?

Here's an idea:

If you have a gun and it is supposed to be locked and a kid gets his
hands on it and shoots himself or someone else, *you* go to prison.

Or, if someone steals a firearm and you don't report it right away, you
go to prison.



Those are already distinct possibilities. You can be charged for
negligence and for not storing the firearms in the prescribed manner by
law.

This will **** off the Tea Party types here, but I would not object to
an inspection of my firearm storage. If a cop knocked on the door
right now and asked if I voluntarily agreed to him coming in and
checking how my guns are stored, I'd say, "Come on in".




I don't have any problem with such an inspection, either. There are no
kids running around here, and all but one home defense weapon are locked
up in a safe. We don't get many doorbell ringers around here, other than
UPS/FEDEX and the Sunday church ladies, and I always peek on the video
monitor before I open the door anyway. Anyone breaking in at night meets Mr. 12 Gauge.


Paranoid, or you live in a high crime district.


I have video cams around the exterior. Nothing paranoid about that.

What's paranoid about greeting someone breaking in at night with a 12 gauge?




Breaking in at night? Where was that mentioned. You commented about
answering the front door.


The last sentence of the the post to which you responded. The sentence
that reads" "Anyone breaking in at night meets Mr. 12 Gauge."

Reading is fundamental.

Seems lately Bill has been having some trouble with words hitting his
brain....