On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:
On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:
On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:
On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:
On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:
iBoaterer wrote:
In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-
, says...

True North wrote:
Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.
Thicker than similar boats.

http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/

If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel
stuff and
weight goes up.

You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do
what
you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.

I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic
stops! I
would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the
trailer or
tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a
lightweight,
underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It
barely
stopped itself!

Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or
so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for
his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I
personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear
window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school
of hard knocks.

Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what
are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or
texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own
selfish reasons..

I guess I would become his educator.

I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to
kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it
will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to
kill me on the highway.

I'll call you if I need you.

On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says....



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year.... even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to stay out of my way. Just sayin'.

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says...



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year....

That's not what was said at all, but do go on.... I said if somwone as
irresponsible as you, hit us, I would react... Never said anything about
"going to you"... Going to beat the **** ouf of someone and not showing
up, is your thing....



even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to stay out of my way. Just sayin'.

In article , says...

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says...



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year....

That's not what was said at all, but do go on.... I said if somwone as
irresponsible as you, hit us, I would react... Never said anything about
"going to you"... Going to beat the **** ouf of someone and not showing
up, is your thing....



even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to stay out of my way. Just sayin'.


Oh, yes you did say that!

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says...



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into
his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year....

That's not what was said at all, but do go on.... I said if somwone as
irresponsible as you, hit us, I would react... Never said anything about
"going to you"... Going to beat the **** ouf of someone and not showing
up, is your thing....



even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to
stay out of my way. Just sayin'.


Oh, yes you did say that!

And most people cut off towing vehicles. See an extra space and fill it,
especially on freeway off ramp areas.

On 10/4/2013 2:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says...



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into
his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year....

That's not what was said at all, but do go on.... I said if somwone as
irresponsible as you, hit us, I would react... Never said anything about
"going to you"... Going to beat the **** ouf of someone and not showing
up, is your thing....



even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to
stay out of my way. Just sayin'.


Oh, yes you did say that!

And most people cut off towing vehicles. See an extra space and fill it,
especially on freeway off ramp areas.


Yup, they kill us. You try to be responsible, specially in traffic and
leave some room when the car in front of you starts moving, but if you
do, five cars will jump the line leaving you and everyone behind you
sitting there.... on a hill

In article , says...

On 10/4/2013 2:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says...



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into
his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year....

That's not what was said at all, but do go on.... I said if somwone as
irresponsible as you, hit us, I would react... Never said anything about
"going to you"... Going to beat the **** ouf of someone and not showing
up, is your thing....



even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to
stay out of my way. Just sayin'.


Oh, yes you did say that!

And most people cut off towing vehicles. See an extra space and fill it,
especially on freeway off ramp areas.


Yup, they kill us. You try to be responsible, specially in traffic and
leave some room when the car in front of you starts moving, but if you
do, five cars will jump the line leaving you and everyone behind you
sitting there.... on a hill

But WTF does this have to do with the legality of the rig? Answer, it
doesn't, it's just stupidity.

In article 2143371489402602897.956996bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says...



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into
his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year....

That's not what was said at all, but do go on.... I said if somwone as
irresponsible as you, hit us, I would react... Never said anything about
"going to you"... Going to beat the **** ouf of someone and not showing
up, is your thing....



even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to
stay out of my way. Just sayin'.


Oh, yes you did say that!

And most people cut off towing vehicles. See an extra space and fill it,
especially on freeway off ramp areas.

And that has WHAT to do with the fact that Don's rig is legal and
decent.

iBoaterer wrote:
In article 2143371489402602897.956996bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says...



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into
his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year....

That's not what was said at all, but do go on.... I said if somwone as
irresponsible as you, hit us, I would react... Never said anything about
"going to you"... Going to beat the **** ouf of someone and not showing
up, is your thing....



even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to
stay out of my way. Just sayin'.


Oh, yes you did say that!

And most people cut off towing vehicles. See an extra space and fill it,
especially on freeway off ramp areas.

And that has WHAT to do with the fact that Don's rig is legal and
decent.

Can it stop quickly?

iBoaterer wrote:
In article 2143371489402602897.956996bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, True North wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2013 09:51:31 UTC-3, Hank© wrote:
On 10/4/2013 12:20 AM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 11:00 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 8:55 PM, Charlemagne wrote:

On 10/3/2013 7:37 PM, Hank© wrote:

On 10/3/2013 6:25 PM, Califbill wrote:

iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1769452854402444050.512769bmckeenospam-

, says...



True North wrote:

Legend boats boast of 100 gauge aluminum hulls.

Thicker than similar boats.



http://legendboats.com/boat/xcalibur...ibur-overview/



If this is your boat, says tow weight is 2542. Add any personnel

stuff and

weight goes up.



You just aren't going to let it go, are you? He's legal, you can do

what

you want with your boat, let him do what he wants with his.



I just want people to be able to stop their trailers when traffic

stops! I

would hate to be hit by some idiot without enough brakes on the

trailer or

tow vehicle. I see these tow ratings of 5000# or so one a

lightweight,

underpowered tow vehicle. My S10 Blazer had that 5000# rating. It

barely

stopped itself!



Donnie has convinced himself that his car will stop an extra 2000 lb or

so without the benefit of trailer brakes. I sure hope he's right for

his wife's sake and the sake of those he shares the highway with. I

personally don't care if his boat decides to come through hie rear

window. Some folks are bent on getting their education from the school

of hard knocks.



Yeah, but if some idiot like that hits you and hurts your family what

are you going to do? I say driving heavy is as bad as driving drunk or

texting, you are taking others lives into your hands for your own

selfish reasons..



I guess I would become his educator.



I have a history of going a bit further when I feel someone has tried to

kill me or hurt my family... Just sayin'. If I ever do fight again it

will be someone that screwed with my kids bike or someone who tries to

kill me on the highway.



I'll call you if I need you.


So Hankie, you remember L'il Snot's threats to kill me if I ran into
his vehicle while towing my new boat with the RAV4 last year....

That's not what was said at all, but do go on.... I said if somwone as
irresponsible as you, hit us, I would react... Never said anything about
"going to you"... Going to beat the **** ouf of someone and not showing
up, is your thing....



even though he's at least a thousand miles from me.
If you and he are so nervous about my towed rig I'd advise y'all to
stay out of my way. Just sayin'.


Oh, yes you did say that!

And most people cut off towing vehicles. See an extra space and fill it,
especially on freeway off ramp areas.

And that has WHAT to do with the fact that Don's rig is legal and
decent.

It means, can it stop the whole rig in about the same distance as just the
car? Legal and safe are not contiguous.