On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:12:24 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/28/13 11:22 AM, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:33:33 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



(CN) - An avowed atheist who was jailed for refusing to participate in

a 12-step treatment program deserves a new trial of his civil rights

claims, the 9th Circuit ruled.

Barry Hazle sued his parole officer, several California

corrections officials and Westcare Corp. after they revoked his

probation for a drug conviction because of his "congenial" refusal to

recognize a higher power, as the 12-step recovery method requires.

Hazle said he told officials several times about his atheism and

reluctance to participate in religious treatment programs after pleading

no-contest in 2006 to possession of methamphetamine. Nonetheless, in

2007 he was paroled to a 90-day residential program that offered only

the 12 Steps, many of which call for explicit acceptance of God.

When he refused to participate, staff reported Hazle to his parole

officer, saying that he was being "disruptive, though in a congenial

way, to the staff as well as other students," according to the ruling.

Hazle then found himself back in prison for another 100 days.

His federal civil rights action sought damages for false

imprisonment, among other things. U.S. District Judge Garland Burrell in

San Francisco found the defendants were indeed liable for depriving

Hazle of his First Amendment rights and turned the issue over to a jury

to determine the amount of damages.

The jury awarded zero damages.

Hazle shot back with a motion for a new trial, but was denied. A

three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit reversed Friday, finding that Hazle

was entitled to something.

"The district judge's finding of liability establishes that Hazle

suffered actual injury when he was unconstitutionally incarcerated,"

Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote for the court. "Given this undisputed

finding that Hazle's constitutional rights were violated, and applying

the rule that the award of compensatory damages is mandatory when the

existence of actual injury is beyond dispute, we hold that the district

judge erred in refusing to hold that Hazle was, as a matter of law,

entitled to compensatory damages. We therefore reverse the district

judge's denial of Hazle's motion for a new trial."



http://tinyurl.com/p4pmh65



- - -



Ahh, the religious.



Has anyone had any better success with drug addiction?





The 12-Step programs are self-help and reassurance programs, they are

not the sort of "therapy" many addicts need. That therapy incorporates

traditional therapy, whether individual or group, and in many cases,

prescription therapy. If a drug addict goes cold turkey by

himself/herself and right into some 12-step program, the addict has a

good chance of falling over and dying.



The religious underpinnings and overlay of 12-step programs are

off-putting for many addicts. A lot of people simply don't want religion

shoved down their throats.

"
The religious underpinnings and overlay of 12-step programs are
off-putting for many addicts. "

There's a lot of substance/alcohol abusers who while in the `12-step' programs , follow the religious overtones closely.

"Tim" wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:12:24 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/28/13 11:22 AM, wrote:

The religious underpinnings and overlay of 12-step programs are
off-putting for many addicts. A lot of people simply don't want
religion
shoved down their throats.


There's a lot of substance/alcohol abusers who while in the `12-step'
programs , follow the religious overtones closely.

---------------------

Last year when I was involved with a family member's rehab and first
steps with recovery I got a copy of the "Big Book" to read what the
12 step thing was all about. I had never heard of the "Big Book" and
had only heard about the "12 step program" in the form of jokes. I
had no clue what they actually were. Pretty naïve I guess for a guy
my age.

I confess that I didn't read the Big Book cover to cover, but I read
enough to get the history, ideas and concepts. I didn't think it
overly pushes religion at all, and certainly doesn't push any
particular theology. I got the it really doesn't care what you
believe in as long as you acknowledge that there are bigger things in
the universe than yourselves.

I was also fortunate to have several people who I had met (mostly
through the guitar shop) who confided their status as recovering
addicts to me. Prior to that I had no idea. They helped me and my
wife deal with my family member's addiction and explained their
respective adaptations of and implementation of the 12 step program as
it applied to them . Some took it more literally than others, but
it seemed to benefit them all.

I certainly don't think it "shoves" religion down anyone's throats.

On 8/28/2013 9:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"Tim" wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:12:24 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/28/13 11:22 AM, wrote:

The religious underpinnings and overlay of 12-step programs are
off-putting for many addicts. A lot of people simply don't want religion
shoved down their throats.


There's a lot of substance/alcohol abusers who while in the `12-step'
programs , follow the religious overtones closely.

---------------------

Last year when I was involved with a family member's rehab and first
steps with recovery I got a copy of the "Big Book" to read what the 12
step thing was all about. I had never heard of the "Big Book" and had
only heard about the "12 step program" in the form of jokes. I had no
clue what they actually were. Pretty naïve I guess for a guy my age.

I confess that I didn't read the Big Book cover to cover, but I read
enough to get the history, ideas and concepts. I didn't think it
overly pushes religion at all, and certainly doesn't push any particular
theology. I got the it really doesn't care what you believe in as long
as you acknowledge that there are bigger things in the universe than
yourselves.

I was also fortunate to have several people who I had met (mostly
through the guitar shop) who confided their status as recovering addicts
to me. Prior to that I had no idea. They helped me and my wife deal
with my family member's addiction and explained their respective
adaptations of and implementation of the 12 step program as it applied
to them . Some took it more literally than others, but it seemed to
benefit them all.

I certainly don't think it "shoves" religion down anyone's throats.




It certainly trumps any treatment Harry has offered up.
?
?
What's the weather forecast for your 20 early Thursday PM?

"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...


What's the weather forecast for your 20 early Thursday PM?

---------------------------------------

Tomorrow - Cloudy skies early, followed by partial clearing. High 72F
.. Winds NNE at 10 to 15 mph .

Alerts for heavy fog in most areas from early am through mid day, but
then clearing up.

On 8/28/2013 10:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...


What's the weather forecast for your 20 early Thursday PM?

---------------------------------------

Tomorrow - Cloudy skies early, followed by partial clearing. High 72F .
Winds NNE at 10 to 15 mph .

Alerts for heavy fog in most areas from early am through mid day, but
then clearing up.

Cool

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:03:29 PM UTC-5, Hank© wrote:
On 8/28/2013 10:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:





"Hank©" wrote in message

eb.com...





What's the weather forecast for your 20 early Thursday PM?



---------------------------------------



Tomorrow - Cloudy skies early, followed by partial clearing. High 72F ..

Winds NNE at 10 to 15 mph .



Alerts for heavy fog in most areas from early am through mid day, but

then clearing up.



Cool

Cool? I wish it was here in the Midwest again. Tommorow another high 90's day. It's presently 82f. outside at 9:50 pm CST.

On 8/28/2013 9:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"Tim" wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:12:24 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/28/13 11:22 AM, wrote:

The religious underpinnings and overlay of 12-step programs are
off-putting for many addicts. A lot of people simply don't want religion
shoved down their throats.


There's a lot of substance/alcohol abusers who while in the `12-step'
programs , follow the religious overtones closely.

---------------------

Last year when I was involved with a family member's rehab and first
steps with recovery I got a copy of the "Big Book" to read what the 12
step thing was all about. I had never heard of the "Big Book" and had
only heard about the "12 step program" in the form of jokes. I had no
clue what they actually were. Pretty naïve I guess for a guy my age.

I confess that I didn't read the Big Book cover to cover, but I read
enough to get the history, ideas and concepts. I didn't think it
overly pushes religion at all, and certainly doesn't push any particular
theology. I got the it really doesn't care what you believe in as long
as you acknowledge that there are bigger things in the universe than
yourselves.

I was also fortunate to have several people who I had met (mostly
through the guitar shop) who confided their status as recovering addicts
to me. Prior to that I had no idea. They helped me and my wife deal
with my family member's addiction and explained their respective
adaptations of and implementation of the 12 step program as it applied
to them . Some took it more literally than others, but it seemed to
benefit them all.

I certainly don't think it "shoves" religion down anyone's throats.





A close friend is in Recovery for about ten years now... Cleaned up just
about the time his parents sold their farm and gave all of the kids a
million each. He has spent it running a recovery home and program for
addicts now for almost ten years... Heroin and the Oxy drugs are the
worst... they just never, ever let go. Met a couple guys a week or so
back, my age, work with riders. Pin holes for pupils, I hate it...

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:31:08 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:

I didn't think it

overly pushes religion at all, and certainly doesn't push any

particular theology. I got the it really doesn't care what you

believe in as long as you acknowledge that there are bigger things in

the universe than yourselves.


Exactly right, Rich. But it seems that to Harry that *IS* religion"



I certainly don't think it "shoves" religion down anyone's throats.

It doesn't of course- that is, unless you believe it does...

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:31:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I got the it really doesn't care what you
believe in as long as you acknowledge that there are bigger things in
the universe than yourselves.

===

That's an important first step. Literally, the more we learn about
the universe, the stranger it becomes. It is doubtful to me that we
will ever understand the whole enchilada since new layers of the onion
always seem to appear as the old ones are peeled away. Some choose to
explain it with science, others with religion. In the end it may not
make any difference but I lean towards science.

On 8/28/2013 11:28 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:31:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I got the it really doesn't care what you
believe in as long as you acknowledge that there are bigger things in
the universe than yourselves.

===

That's an important first step. Literally, the more we learn about
the universe, the stranger it becomes. It is doubtful to me that we
will ever understand the whole enchilada since new layers of the onion
always seem to appear as the old ones are peeled away. Some choose to
explain it with science, others with religion. In the end it may not
make any difference but I lean towards science.


Ha, I believe God *is* a Scientist... of sorts.... chew on that