On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:


What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those

who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from

their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the left

hates that.



More absurdities.

Not really, Harry.

I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time. He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide. OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.

Seriously.


The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are
just not honest enough to face it up front...

On 6/27/13 8:53 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:


What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those

who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from

their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the
left

hates that.



More absurdities.

Not really, Harry.

I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's
beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time.
He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man
and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the
church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must
perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide.
OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged
in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly
forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.

Seriously.


The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are
just not honest enough to face it up front...


Face what...that you shouldn't be discriminating against gays? If you
work for a company and it sets a policy that applies to the company and
is legal and you don't like the policy, your choices are simple...either
go along or get out. Is there something about being an employee of a
church that allows you to thumb your nose at church policy?

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:48:28 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 8:53 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:

On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:





What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those



who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from



their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the

left



hates that.







More absurdities.



Not really, Harry.



I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's

beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time.

He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man

and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the

church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must

perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide.

OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged

in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly

forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.



Seriously.





The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are

just not honest enough to face it up front...





Face what...that you shouldn't be discriminating against gays? If you

work for a company and it sets a policy that applies to the company and

is legal and you don't like the policy, your choices are simple...either

go along or get out. Is there something about being an employee of a

church that allows you to thumb your nose at church policy?

Harry, call it what you want, but this is a matter of religious freedom being possibly jeopardized by being forced into compliance.

On 6/28/13 1:26 AM, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:48:28 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 8:53 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:

On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:





What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those



who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from



their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the

left



hates that.







More absurdities.



Not really, Harry.



I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's

beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time.

He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man

and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the

church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must

perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide.

OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged

in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly

forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.



Seriously.





The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are

just not honest enough to face it up front...





Face what...that you shouldn't be discriminating against gays? If you

work for a company and it sets a policy that applies to the company and

is legal and you don't like the policy, your choices are simple...either

go along or get out. Is there something about being an employee of a

church that allows you to thumb your nose at church policy?

Harry, call it what you want, but this is a matter of religious freedom being possibly jeopardized by being forced into compliance.


Is there religious freedom involved when the folks who run the church
tell the pastor what to do?

On Friday, June 28, 2013 5:00:01 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/28/13 1:26 AM, Tim wrote:

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:48:28 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:

On 6/27/13 8:53 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:



On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:



On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:











What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those







who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from







their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the



left







hates that.















More absurdities.







Not really, Harry.







I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's



beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time.



He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man



and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the



church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must



perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide.



OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged



in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly



forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.







Seriously.











The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are



just not honest enough to face it up front...











Face what...that you shouldn't be discriminating against gays? If you



work for a company and it sets a policy that applies to the company and



is legal and you don't like the policy, your choices are simple...either



go along or get out. Is there something about being an employee of a



church that allows you to thumb your nose at church policy?



Harry, call it what you want, but this is a matter of religious freedom being possibly jeopardized by being forced into compliance.





Is there religious freedom involved when the folks who run the church

tell the pastor what to do?

Harry, I really don't know how to rationally answer your question, but to say that if the denomination tells you to tow their line regardless of your convictions, then speaking for myself, I'd say say 'no'

And the reason I say that is because the denomination has changed it's stance moral stance on social issues within the past 20 or so years. In other words 'it ain't what it used to be"

On 6/28/13 10:19 PM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, June 28, 2013 5:00:01 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/28/13 1:26 AM, Tim wrote:

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:48:28 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:

On 6/27/13 8:53 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:



On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:



On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:











What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those







who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from







their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the



left







hates that.















More absurdities.







Not really, Harry.







I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's



beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time.



He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man



and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the



church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must



perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide.



OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged



in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly



forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.







Seriously.











The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are



just not honest enough to face it up front...











Face what...that you shouldn't be discriminating against gays? If you



work for a company and it sets a policy that applies to the company and



is legal and you don't like the policy, your choices are simple...either



go along or get out. Is there something about being an employee of a



church that allows you to thumb your nose at church policy?



Harry, call it what you want, but this is a matter of religious freedom being possibly jeopardized by being forced into compliance.





Is there religious freedom involved when the folks who run the church

tell the pastor what to do?

Harry, I really don't know how to rationally answer your question, but to say that if the denomination tells you to tow their line regardless of your convictions, then speaking for myself, I'd say say 'no'

And the reason I say that is because the denomination has changed it's stance moral stance on social issues within the past 20 or so years. In other words 'it ain't what it used to be"



So, a minister can be like any other employee. If stands on issues
change, the minister can either change with them or more on. As far as
losing a pension goes, that, sadly, happens to too many Americans. We
are a country in which worker bees have no rights and in most cases,
recourse. As Tennessee Ernie Ford used to sing, "We owe our soul to the
company store."

I don't like that, but that is the way it is in this country. We're
backwards in what matters most to our people.

On 6/28/2013 1:26 AM, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:48:28 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 8:53 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:

On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:





What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those



who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from



their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the

left



hates that.







More absurdities.



Not really, Harry.



I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's

beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time.

He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man

and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the

church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must

perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide.

OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged

in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly

forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.



Seriously.





The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are

just not honest enough to face it up front...





Face what...that you shouldn't be discriminating against gays? If you

work for a company and it sets a policy that applies to the company and

is legal and you don't like the policy, your choices are simple...either

go along or get out. Is there something about being an employee of a

church that allows you to thumb your nose at church policy?

Harry, call it what you want, but this is a matter of religious freedom being possibly jeopardized by being forced into compliance.


Let's not go stirring up the homosexual hornets nest now, Tim. Let them
do "their own thing".

In article ,
says...

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:48:28 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 8:53 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:

On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:





What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those



who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from



their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the

left



hates that.







More absurdities.



Not really, Harry.



I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's

beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time.

He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man

and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the

church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must

perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide.

OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged

in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly

forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.



Seriously.





The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are

just not honest enough to face it up front...





Face what...that you shouldn't be discriminating against gays? If you

work for a company and it sets a policy that applies to the company and

is legal and you don't like the policy, your choices are simple...either

go along or get out. Is there something about being an employee of a

church that allows you to thumb your nose at church policy?

Harry, call it what you want, but this is a matter of religious freedom being possibly jeopardized by being forced into compliance.

There are all sorts of laws that people of all religions and beliefs
have to be in compliance of. Do you think we should do away with all of
them?

On Friday, June 28, 2013 8:55:58 AM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...



On Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:48:28 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:

On 6/27/13 8:53 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:



On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:



On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:











What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those







who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from







their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the



left







hates that.















More absurdities.







Not really, Harry.







I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's



beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time.



He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man



and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the



church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must



perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide.



OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly charged



in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly



forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.







Seriously.











The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are



just not honest enough to face it up front...











Face what...that you shouldn't be discriminating against gays? If you



work for a company and it sets a policy that applies to the company and



is legal and you don't like the policy, your choices are simple...either



go along or get out. Is there something about being an employee of a



church that allows you to thumb your nose at church policy?



Harry, call it what you want, but this is a matter of religious freedom being possibly jeopardized by being forced into compliance.



There are all sorts of laws that people of all religions and beliefs

have to be in compliance of. Do you think we should do away with all of

them?

No, and I didn't imply it. Do you think that a person should be open to lawsuits and have their retirement jeopardized because they don't do the will of "the company?"

In article ,
says...

On 6/27/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:05:42 PM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:


What we will get is activists going from Church to Church suing those

who will not marry them. The long term is to drive the Churches from

their business... They just do it so much better than the Govt, the left

hates that.



More absurdities.

Not really, Harry.

I have a friend who is a pastor of an old line denomination who's beliefs have been steering towards social 'gay rights' for some time. He doesn't believe in 'gay marriage' but stands on the core of 'man and woman'. However, he is afraid that if the deciding powers of the church's national, or state (or even regional) council says he must perform same-sex marriages, then he feels he will be forced to abide. OR, he feels that there is a chance that he could be civilly
charged in a discrimination suite, maybe lose his retirement and/or possibly forfeit his ordination license to preach in that denomination.

Seriously.


The folks on the other side of that know what they are after, they are
just not honest enough to face it up front...

Just what insanity are you talking about NOW?