here you go JPS...
 

On 6/27/13 7:51 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:29:47 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh? :)

Where was the buddy when the cop got there a minute later? If he was a
real buddy, he would be on O'Mara's witness list and this trial would
have never happened.


Who knows? Maybe he wasn't that good of a buddy. As I stated elsewhere,
I think the Florida defend your ground law needs to be dumped if it
pertains to being outside your house.

here you go JPS...
 

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 7:26 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...



The witnesses so far seem to indicate that Zimmerman started the
altercation, that the screaming seemed to be coming from Martin,
that
Zimmerman was on top of Martin after the gunshot, et cetera.


-------------------------------------------

There's one piece of forensic evidence and also witness testimony
regarding the color of the shirts or jackets that were worn that may
convince the jury that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. The
forensic
evidence was introduced by the defense the first day of the trial
and
indicates that there was about an inch to two inches of space
between
Martin's shirt and where Zimmerman's bullet entered his body. It
was
determined by powder residue and burns.

If Zimmerman was on top of Martin, it's unlikely any space would
exist
between Martin's shirt and his chest. However, if Martin was on
top,
leaning forward, the space would exist.

I'll bet the defense focuses on that in their summation.




I'll bet the jury doesn't give a **** about that and probably won't
understand it, either. There are many ways the two shirts could be up
close and personal to each other, or separated by an inch. However the
jury decides, that ain't gonna be a critical factor.

I have a growing feeling that Zimmerman is going to take the stand.
Hope
so. The Florida stand your ground law is a piece of **** and perhaps a
conviction will sink it.

--------------------------------

Just to clarify, I am not talking about spaces between Martin's and
Zimmerman's shirts. I am talking about a 1 to 2 inch space between
Martin's shirt and his chest. That would be hard to exist if Martin
was on his back on the ground with Zimmerman on top of him. But, if
Martin was on top, leaning forward somewhat, the space would exist.
That's powerful evidence if I were a jury member, absent any eye
witness who knew with certainty who was on top. So far, there aren't
any.

here you go JPS...
 

"Eisboch" wrote:
"Hank©" wrote in message eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh? :)

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on top
of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented so
far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a one
to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and can
be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the whole
thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a feeling
the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think the "Stand
your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of the
jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.
The state has to convince everyone on the jury that Zimmerman is guilty
beyond a doubt! Going to be hard with Martins record of thuggery. If even
if they do not think it was a stand your ground case, they may figure Z was
defending himself.

here you go JPS...
 

On 6/27/13 8:21 PM, Califbill wrote:

The state has to convince everyone on the jury that Zimmerman is guilty
beyond a doubt! Going to be hard with Martins record of thuggery. If even
if they do not think it was a stand your ground case, they may figure Z was
defending himself.



Martin doesn't have a record of "thuggery." He has no police record
whatsoever. Zimmerman, on the other hand, has arrests for violence.

here you go JPS...
 

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...


I think Zimmerman went looking for trouble and found it. He has an
interesting arrest record as a thug, and apparently he was either
carrying his piece or went back to the truck to get it, then chased
the
kid down and maybe the kid said, "**** you," so hot-headed Zimmerman
shot him.

Luckily for Zimmerman, I'm not on the jury, eh?

I'm more interested in stand your ground laws outside the house being
****canned than I am in the specific outcome of this case. It's bad
law,
reminiscent of the tales about the Old West.

-----------------------------------------

I don't think you necessarily need to have a "stand your ground"
statute on the books. Self defense is self defense. The only part
of stand your ground that is unique is the lack of a requirement to
retreat if subject to a assault or likelyhood of an assault. If you
consider the Zimmerman case, even with the "stand your ground"
statute, he's still on trial for 2nd degree murder. I would expect
that in any state, with or without a "stand your ground" law you
would be subject to prosecution in a case involving deadly force and
found innocent if it was determined to be self defense. In many
situations that I've read about no charges were even filed against
someone who used deadly force in a situation that was obviously and
blatantly self defense. What ****es me off sometimes though is that
the families of the perp often file a wrongful death civil suit and
win. If it was self defense, it was self defense.

here you go JPS...
 

On 6/27/2013 7:39 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize
his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh? :)

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on top
of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented so
far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a one
to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and can
be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the
whole thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a
feeling the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think
the "Stand your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he
instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of the
jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.


You could say Martin triggered the incident by being a suspicious person
causing Zimm to make legitimate inquiries. beyond that, details are
hearsay and speculation. The lawyers persuasive skills will determine
the outcome on this one. I don't see any damning evidence.

here you go JPS...
 

On 6/27/2013 7:32 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 7:26 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...



The witnesses so far seem to indicate that Zimmerman started the
altercation, that the screaming seemed to be coming from Martin, that
Zimmerman was on top of Martin after the gunshot, et cetera.


-------------------------------------------

There's one piece of forensic evidence and also witness testimony
regarding the color of the shirts or jackets that were worn that may
convince the jury that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. The forensic
evidence was introduced by the defense the first day of the trial and
indicates that there was about an inch to two inches of space between
Martin's shirt and where Zimmerman's bullet entered his body. It was
determined by powder residue and burns.

If Zimmerman was on top of Martin, it's unlikely any space would exist
between Martin's shirt and his chest. However, if Martin was on top,
leaning forward, the space would exist.

I'll bet the defense focuses on that in their summation.




I'll bet the jury doesn't give a **** about that and probably won't
understand it, either. There are many ways the two shirts could be up
close and personal to each other, or separated by an inch. However the
jury decides, that ain't gonna be a critical factor.

I have a growing feeling that Zimmerman is going to take the stand. Hope
so. The Florida stand your ground law is a piece of **** and perhaps a
conviction will sink it.

I doubt if you could be seated on ANY jury. You're just too bat****
crazy, racist and over the edge leftist.

here you go JPS...
 

In article ,
says...

On 6/27/2013 4:29 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.


In all fairness, I might be screaming too reaching for a weapon while
someone was trying to kill me...

What makes you think someone was trying to kill him?

here you go JPS...
 

In article ,
says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how
to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear
witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating
the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think
that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize
his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports.
If so, how did he get them?

Yes, he did, and NO DNA on Martin's hands.

here you go JPS...
 

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say,
how
to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his
meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear
witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating
the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think
that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple,
easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he
sanitize
his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead,
the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports.
If so, how did he get them?

Yes, he did, and NO DNA on Martin's hands.

-------------------------------------

The absence of something (DNA in this case) doesn't exclude anything.
It just means no DNA was found.
There is an absence of an eye witness to the actual shooting.
Doesn't mean the shooting didn't happen.