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New Pope Lambasts Greed
After hundreds of workers were killed in Bangladesh when the factory they worked at making clothes collapsed, Pope Francis took a moment during his May Day homily to pray for the victims and their families as well as condemn the labor practices that took their lives. “How many brothers and sisters find themselves in this situation!” said the pontiff referring to the unfair and unsafe working conditions around the world. “Not paying fairly, not giving a job because you are only looking at balance sheets, only looking at how to make a profit. That goes against God!” He couldn’t believe that the workers inside the factory were only making roughly 38 Euros ($50) per month calling the deplorable conditions and pay “slave labor.” Workers who subsequently died. “I call on politicians to make every effort to relaunch the labor market,” said Pope Francis who went on to say that unemployment is, “an economic conception of society based on selfish profit outside the bounds of social justice.” He also said, “We do not get dignity from power or money or culture, no! We get dignity from work.” The Vatican has spoken against economic inequality throughout the economic collapse of recent years, and has been often very critical of unregulated capitalism and the harm it inflicts. http://tinyurl.com/d4vq8uf |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/13/2013 2:53 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
After hundreds of workers were killed in Bangladesh when the factory they worked at making clothes collapsed, Pope Francis took a moment during his May Day homily to pray for the victims and their families as well as condemn the labor practices that took their lives. “How many brothers and sisters find themselves in this situation!” said the pontiff referring to the unfair and unsafe working conditions around the world. “Not paying fairly, not giving a job because you are only looking at balance sheets, only looking at how to make a profit. That goes against God!” He couldn’t believe that the workers inside the factory were only making roughly 38 Euros ($50) per month calling the deplorable conditions and pay “slave labor.” Workers who subsequently died. “I call on politicians to make every effort to relaunch the labor market,” said Pope Francis who went on to say that unemployment is, “an economic conception of society based on selfish profit outside the bounds of social justice.” He also said, “We do not get dignity from power or money or culture, no! We get dignity from work.” The Vatican has spoken against economic inequality throughout the economic collapse of recent years, and has been often very critical of unregulated capitalism and the harm it inflicts. http://tinyurl.com/d4vq8uf Where's the garment workers union when you need it? |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On Mon, 13 May 2013 16:29:33 -0400, Hank©
wrote: On 5/13/2013 2:53 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: After hundreds of workers were killed in Bangladesh when the factory they worked at making clothes collapsed, Pope Francis took a moment during his May Day homily to pray for the victims and their families as well as condemn the labor practices that took their lives. “How many brothers and sisters find themselves in this situation!” said the pontiff referring to the unfair and unsafe working conditions around the world. “Not paying fairly, not giving a job because you are only looking at balance sheets, only looking at how to make a profit. That goes against God!” He couldn’t believe that the workers inside the factory were only making roughly 38 Euros ($50) per month calling the deplorable conditions and pay “slave labor.” Workers who subsequently died. “I call on politicians to make every effort to relaunch the labor market,” said Pope Francis who went on to say that unemployment is, “an economic conception of society based on selfish profit outside the bounds of social justice.” He also said, “We do not get dignity from power or money or culture, no! We get dignity from work.” The Vatican has spoken against economic inequality throughout the economic collapse of recent years, and has been often very critical of unregulated capitalism and the harm it inflicts. http://tinyurl.com/d4vq8uf Where's the garment workers union when you need it? ==== Running a factory without making a profit apparently goes against god also because he will close it down in no time at all. Interesting that Harry should take such a sudden interest in the teachings of the pope. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/13/13 5:11 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013 16:29:33 -0400, Hank© wrote: On 5/13/2013 2:53 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: After hundreds of workers were killed in Bangladesh when the factory they worked at making clothes collapsed, Pope Francis took a moment during his May Day homily to pray for the victims and their families as well as condemn the labor practices that took their lives. “How many brothers and sisters find themselves in this situation!” said the pontiff referring to the unfair and unsafe working conditions around the world. “Not paying fairly, not giving a job because you are only looking at balance sheets, only looking at how to make a profit. That goes against God!” He couldn’t believe that the workers inside the factory were only making roughly 38 Euros ($50) per month calling the deplorable conditions and pay “slave labor.” Workers who subsequently died. “I call on politicians to make every effort to relaunch the labor market,” said Pope Francis who went on to say that unemployment is, “an economic conception of society based on selfish profit outside the bounds of social justice.” He also said, “We do not get dignity from power or money or culture, no! We get dignity from work.” The Vatican has spoken against economic inequality throughout the economic collapse of recent years, and has been often very critical of unregulated capitalism and the harm it inflicts. http://tinyurl.com/d4vq8uf Where's the garment workers union when you need it? ==== Running a factory without making a profit apparently goes against god also because he will close it down in no time at all. Interesting that Harry should take such a sudden interest in the teachings of the pope. - - - You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On May 13, 7:51*pm, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 5/13/13 5:11 PM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 16:29:33 -0400, Hank wrote: On 5/13/2013 2:53 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: After hundreds of workers were killed in Bangladesh when the factory they worked at making clothes collapsed, Pope Francis took a moment during his May Day homily to pray for the victims and their families as well as condemn the labor practices that took their lives. * * * How many brothers and sisters find themselves in this situation! said the pontiff referring to the unfair and unsafe working conditions around the world. Not paying fairly, not giving a job because you are only looking at balance sheets, only looking at how to make a profit. That goes against God! He couldn t believe that the workers inside the factory were only making roughly 38 Euros ($50) per month calling the deplorable conditions and pay slave labor. Workers who subsequently died. * * * I call on politicians to make every effort to relaunch the labor market, said Pope Francis who went on to say that unemployment is, an economic conception of society based on selfish profit outside the bounds of social justice. He also said, We do not get dignity from power or money or culture, no! We get dignity from work. The Vatican has spoken against economic inequality throughout the economic collapse of recent years, and has been often very critical of unregulated capitalism and the harm it inflicts. http://tinyurl.com/d4vq8uf Where's the garment workers union when you need it? ==== Running a factory without making a profit apparently goes against god also because he will close it down in no time at all. *Interesting that Harry should take such a sudden interest in the teachings of the pope. - - - You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. Sounds just like you....... |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statler-and-waldorf.jpg |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statler-and-waldorf.jpg Greed is the driving force in the economy. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On May 14, 6:43*am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." *wrote in message om... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. *When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. *Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. *Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle.... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statler-and-waldorf.jpg Greed is the driving force in the economy. ------------------------------- Bull **** There are examples of greed for sure, but the vast majority of businesses are competitive in nature which doesn't allow for greed to drive them. Most businesses I know are certainly profit orientated, either for organic growth and expansion (which generates jobs, BTW) and/or for a return on investment for the stockholders. Excessive costs imposed by the government for the privilege of doing business shouldn't be confused with corporate greed. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote:
On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more So, you are an acolyte of Gordon Gekko, and believe that unrestrained greed is good? Mighty shaky ground for a devout and believing Christian, eh? :) |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/13 7:55 AM, Eisboch wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statler-and-waldorf.jpg Greed is the driving force in the economy. ------------------------------- Bull **** There are examples of greed for sure, but the vast majority of businesses are competitive in nature which doesn't allow for greed to drive them. Most businesses I know are certainly profit orientated, either for organic growth and expansion (which generates jobs, BTW) and/or for a return on investment for the stockholders. Excessive costs imposed by the government for the privilege of doing business shouldn't be confused with corporate greed. I'm trying to think of the well-known businesses with whom we interact every day where greed isn't the driving force. The only ones I can think of are the small, family run contracting businesses and some family restaurants. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more So, you are an acolyte of Gordon Gekko, and believe that unrestrained greed is good? Mighty shaky ground for a devout and believing Christian, eh? :) ------------------------------------------------ Tim's faith has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation Harry. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
In article om, hank57
@socialworker.net says... On 5/13/2013 2:53 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: After hundreds of workers were killed in Bangladesh when the factory they worked at making clothes collapsed, Pope Francis took a moment during his May Day homily to pray for the victims and their families as well as condemn the labor practices that took their lives. ?How many brothers and sisters find themselves in this situation!? said the pontiff referring to the unfair and unsafe working conditions around the world. ?Not paying fairly, not giving a job because you are only looking at balance sheets, only looking at how to make a profit. That goes against God!? He couldn?t believe that the workers inside the factory were only making roughly 38 Euros ($50) per month calling the deplorable conditions and pay ?slave labor.? Workers who subsequently died. ?I call on politicians to make every effort to relaunch the labor market,? said Pope Francis who went on to say that unemployment is, ?an economic conception of society based on selfish profit outside the bounds of social justice.? He also said, ?We do not get dignity from power or money or culture, no! We get dignity from work.? The Vatican has spoken against economic inequality throughout the economic collapse of recent years, and has been often very critical of unregulated capitalism and the harm it inflicts. http://tinyurl.com/d4vq8uf Where's the garment workers union when you need it? I don't think there's much in the way of unions in Bangladesh. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/13 8:20 AM, Eisboch wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more So, you are an acolyte of Gordon Gekko, and believe that unrestrained greed is good? Mighty shaky ground for a devout and believing Christian, eh? :) ------------------------------------------------ Tim's faith has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation Harry. I'm not questioning his faith, but I do know that his saviour was not an advocate of greed. Perhaps we have a language problem here. I don't have the slightest problem with a for-profit company making a profit. For me, the question is, what is the percentage of profit and what is being done to maximize that profit? If workers are being exploited and forced to work in dangerous conditions, then the maximization of profit is based upon greed. If the workers are paid a decent wage and can work in relative safety, then greed may not be a factor. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On May 14, 6:55*am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." *wrote in message news:lfKdnX7RluMNiw_MnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@earthlink .com... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. *When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. *Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. *Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. * ie to gain more So, you are an acolyte of Gordon Gekko, and believe that unrestrained greed is good? Mighty shaky ground for a devout and believing Christian, eh? * :) No Harry, you are. I was agreeing with your statement. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/13 8:28 AM, Tim wrote:
On May 14, 6:55 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more So, you are an acolyte of Gordon Gekko, and believe that unrestrained greed is good? Mighty shaky ground for a devout and believing Christian, eh? :) No Harry, you are. I was agreeing with your statement. There's a difference between making a profit, which a business has to do to survive and grow, and greed. Profit and greed are not synonyms. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On May 14, 7:29*am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 5/14/13 8:28 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:55 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." *wrote in message news:lfKdnX7RluMNiw_MnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@earthli nk.com... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. *When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/13 8:34 AM, Tim wrote:
On May 14, 7:29 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 8:28 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:55 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more So, you are an acolyte of Gordon Gekko, and believe that unrestrained greed is good? Mighty shaky ground for a devout and believing Christian, eh? :) No Harry, you are. I was agreeing with your statement. There's a difference between making a profit, which a business has to do to survive and grow, and greed. Profit and greed are not synonyms. You said: "Greed is the driving force in the economy." I said: "It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more" I was agreeing with your statement, saying nothing of my approval. Don't know where you got that. And questioning my faith because I agreed with your line? Nice spin. I'm finding more and more that there are those who will grab for any straw when they find they have no foundation to stand on. So, you've figured out the underpinnings of the GOP, eh? :) I don't equate a business making a reasonable profit with "greed." Apparently you do. Greed incorporates either the pursuit of or the making of an unreasonable profit. What's an unreasonable profit? Depends. Banks are paying about 2% on savings these days, and, assuming your deposits are under the FDIC insurance limites, those deposits are pretty much risk free. So, what is a reasonable profit if you are putting your money at risk? Five times the insured savings rate? Ten times? Fifty times? |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... Perhaps we have a language problem here. I don't have the slightest problem with a for-profit company making a profit. For me, the question is, what is the percentage of profit and what is being done to maximize that profit? If workers are being exploited and forced to work in dangerous conditions, then the maximization of profit is based upon greed. If the workers are paid a decent wage and can work in relative safety, then greed may not be a factor. ----------------------------------------- Thank you. That's a far cry from your normal, all inclusive definition of corporate greed. I believe that the vast majority of businesses .... at least in the US ..... fit your re-defined description. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/2013 7:43 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statler-and-waldorf.jpg Productive HONEST work is the force that makes the economy successful. Socialism and corruption drain the economy. We know where you fit in the equassion. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/13 8:42 AM, Eisboch wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... Perhaps we have a language problem here. I don't have the slightest problem with a for-profit company making a profit. For me, the question is, what is the percentage of profit and what is being done to maximize that profit? If workers are being exploited and forced to work in dangerous conditions, then the maximization of profit is based upon greed. If the workers are paid a decent wage and can work in relative safety, then greed may not be a factor. ----------------------------------------- Thank you. That's a far cry from your normal, all inclusive definition of corporate greed. I believe that the vast majority of businesses .... at least in the US .... fit your re-defined description. Well, I don't want to start another of Greg's endless threads, but...a large number of American businesses that "do business" abroad engage in greed. Recall that the pope's statement was related to the awful incident in Bangladesh, and the factory that collapsed was a major supplier of clothing to American corporations, and there is no doubt the corporations were aware of what the conditions were in that factory. There also is no shortage of American corporations whose businesses are mainly based in the states who engage in shady, exploitative labor practices. In fact, such is the connecting element these days, it seems. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/2013 8:40 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/14/13 8:34 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 7:29 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 8:28 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:55 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more So, you are an acolyte of Gordon Gekko, and believe that unrestrained greed is good? Mighty shaky ground for a devout and believing Christian, eh? :) No Harry, you are. I was agreeing with your statement. There's a difference between making a profit, which a business has to do to survive and grow, and greed. Profit and greed are not synonyms. You said: "Greed is the driving force in the economy." I said: "It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more" I was agreeing with your statement, saying nothing of my approval. Don't know where you got that. And questioning my faith because I agreed with your line? Nice spin. I'm finding more and more that there are those who will grab for any straw when they find they have no foundation to stand on. So, you've figured out the underpinnings of the GOP, eh? :) I don't equate a business making a reasonable profit with "greed." Apparently you do. Greed incorporates either the pursuit of or the making of an unreasonable profit. What's an unreasonable profit? Depends. Banks are paying about 2% on savings these days, and, assuming your deposits are under the FDIC insurance limites, those deposits are pretty much risk free. So, what is a reasonable profit if you are putting your money at risk? Five times the insured savings rate? Ten times? Fifty times? If you made an arms length loan, what would be your expected rate of return? You can answer your own question. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/2013 7:58 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/14/13 7:55 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statler-and-waldorf.jpg Greed is the driving force in the economy. ------------------------------- Bull **** There are examples of greed for sure, but the vast majority of businesses are competitive in nature which doesn't allow for greed to drive them. Most businesses I know are certainly profit orientated, either for organic growth and expansion (which generates jobs, BTW) and/or for a return on investment for the stockholders. Excessive costs imposed by the government for the privilege of doing business shouldn't be confused with corporate greed. I'm trying to think of the well-known businesses with whom we interact every day where greed isn't the driving force. The only ones I can think of are the small, family run contracting businesses and some family restaurants. Abortion mills. Greedy or not? Eisboch's former business. Greedy or not? Parker boats. Greedy or not? Members of congress. Greedy or not? Oprah Winfrey. Greedy or not? Microsoft. Greedy or not? |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
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New Pope Lambasts Greed
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New Pope Lambasts Greed
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New Pope Lambasts Greed
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New Pope Lambasts Greed
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New Pope Lambasts Greed
On May 14, 9:10*am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
I'll be the first to admit I have no great interest in endless discussions here. There aren't enough participants to make it that interesting to me. These usually end up with you splitting hairs with iloogy. HuH? So far, 17 of the 42 posts in this thread are yours Harry... ?;^ ) |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/2013 5:39 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/14/13 5:22 PM, wrote: On Tue, 14 May 2013 16:58:57 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You still own plenty of stock, they are just held by your pension plan or other investment vehicles you have.. Which has nothing to do with my point that I haven't owned shares for some time. Your efforts to spin everything into meaninglessness moral nihilism used to be amusing. That is like saying "I am not a murderer, I just hired a hit man" You are living off the profits of the corporations along with the evil bankster who manages your pension fund., Actually, I'm not. The bulk of my income comes from fees from clients and profits from non-stock investments. I also get a small check from my union pension plan and, recently, a monthly direct deposit from Social Security. Are you as honest with he IRS as you are with us? |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
Hank© wrote:
On 5/13/2013 2:53 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: After hundreds of workers were killed in Bangladesh when the factory they worked at making clothes collapsed, Pope Francis took a moment during his May Day homily to pray for the victims and their families as well as condemn the labor practices that took their lives. “How many brothers and sisters find themselves in this situation!” said the pontiff referring to the unfair and unsafe working conditions around the world. “Not paying fairly, not giving a job because you are only looking at balance sheets, only looking at how to make a profit. That goes against God!” He couldn’t believe that the workers inside the factory were only making roughly 38 Euros ($50) per month calling the deplorable conditions and pay “slave labor.” Workers who subsequently died. “I call on politicians to make every effort to relaunch the labor market,” said Pope Francis who went on to say that unemployment is, “an economic conception of society based on selfish profit outside the bounds of social justice.” He also said, “We do not get dignity from power or money or culture, no! We get dignity from work.” The Vatican has spoken against economic inequality throughout the economic collapse of recent years, and has been often very critical of unregulated capitalism and the harm it inflicts. http://tinyurl.com/d4vq8uf Where's the garment workers union when you need it? They got dignity from work, not money. Just what the Pope asked for. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/14/13 8:20 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 7:46 AM, Tim wrote: On May 14, 6:43 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/14/13 7:19 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/14/13 5:32 AM, Wayne B wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:51:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You can depend upon a bankster not giving a **** about the greed that cost more than 1000 lives. No one said the factory shouldn't make a profit, by the way. === It's good to see you once again searching for the moral high ground. Hopefully you'll find it some day but I'm not holding my breath. Just as an FYI, I'd argue that incompetence was probably a bigger culprit than greed in the case of the building collapse. When things are designed and built correctly, they don't fall down. What a wonderfully self-delusional way to look at corporate excess. The guy who expanded the building illegally in Bangladesh was simply incompetent and didn't know what he was doing would lead to disaster. The companies who contract for the lowest price manufacturing facility didn't know the companies they retained had their workers laboring for **** wages in such a facility. It's never greed, because the free market system, why, it demands that structures and systems are designed, built, and operated correctly. Yup, so anything horrific that happens, why it is never the fault of cost-cutting or greed. --------------------------------------- Wow. Harry, you really have become cynical to an excess over the years. Starting to think GOM syndrome is setting in. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/02/28/1226587/474989-statle... Greed is the driving force in the economy. It's the driving force of any economy. ie to gain more So, you are an acolyte of Gordon Gekko, and believe that unrestrained greed is good? Mighty shaky ground for a devout and believing Christian, eh? :) ------------------------------------------------ Tim's faith has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation Harry. I'm not questioning his faith, but I do know that his saviour was not an advocate of greed. Perhaps we have a language problem here. I don't have the slightest problem with a for-profit company making a profit. For me, the question is, what is the percentage of profit and what is being done to maximize that profit? If workers are being exploited and forced to work in dangerous conditions, then the maximization of profit is based upon greed. If the workers are paid a decent wage and can work in relative safety, then greed may not be a factor. It all has to do with competition. How do you know this company was doing any more than breaking even? You are full of assumptions, deadbeat. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/14/13 9:45 AM, wrote: On Tue, 14 May 2013 07:43:41 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Greed is the driving force in the economy. Management, labor and the consumer. Nobody is innocent. Again, I'm unsure the concept and meaning of the word "greed" is well understood here. Does it have anything to do with avoiding taxes, screwing creditors via bankruptcy, and buying Parkers and generators with other people's money? You understand that well enough -so well you buy imaginary boats, too! |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/14/13 5:22 PM, wrote: On Tue, 14 May 2013 16:58:57 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: You still own plenty of stock, they are just held by your pension plan or other investment vehicles you have.. Which has nothing to do with my point that I haven't owned shares for some time. Your efforts to spin everything into meaninglessness moral nihilism used to be amusing. That is like saying "I am not a murderer, I just hired a hit man" You are living off the profits of the corporations along with the evil bankster who manages your pension fund., Actually, I'm not. The bulk of my income comes from fees from clients and profits from non-stock investments. I also get a small check from my union pension plan and, recently, a monthly direct deposit from Social Security. What clients? You post all day here. You treat rec.boats like a chat room. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/14/13 9:59 AM, wrote: On Tue, 14 May 2013 08:40:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: I don't equate a business making a reasonable profit with "greed." Apparently you do. Greed incorporates either the pursuit of or the making of an unreasonable profit. What's an unreasonable profit? Depends. Banks are paying about 2% on savings these days, and, assuming your deposits are under the FDIC insurance limites, those deposits are pretty much risk free. So, what is a reasonable profit if you are putting your money at risk? Five times the insured savings rate? Ten times? Fifty times? Do you think you could live on 2% of your savings? (pension plan or whatever) "Profit" is also return on investment. That is where your pension comes from. Do you want to take a pay cut on that generous union pension? I bet not, so you WANT a greedy corporate leader who is generating big dividends to fund your lifestyle. They not only need that money to send to you, they also have to pay the fund manager and the union leaders who make plenty of money, just to administer your account and recruit more union members (bribe government officials etc). Your pension was funded, based on a 10% return PLUS administration and other fees. The only place you can get that kind of money is by investing in the most greedy corporations. 1. Could I live on 2% of my savings? No. But that wasn't the question. The question was, what multiple of the current savings interest rate, which is paid on money not really at risk, is reasonable as a rate of profit. The answer is the best they can do in a competitive marketplace. Percentages mean very little. The size of the business and the industry they are in are significant. 2. Two of the many funds my pension fund invests in average between 8 and 10% a year return to their investors, after expenses, and did so during the recent recession. These are not huge funds, and they run their ships pretty tight. I follow both of these funds for reasons other than my pension. I don't pay attention to my pension fund's other investments. Which funds? Sounds like bull**** to me. Go Google some up - it will take you a while. You are an imbecile if you truly ignore the other investments. 3. I don't personally know any international union leaders who "make plenty of money." I do know some whose salaries are in the $150,000 to $300,000 range, and a couple of retired international union presidents who did a little better. Again, these are people who I know personally. I don't consider salaries in that range for highly responsible jobs as paying "plenty." You do, or don't, personally know them? Which is it (I already know the answer)? More BS. 4. If a corporation based in the United States and employing mostly U.S. workers is earning a 10 to 12% profit, and isn't exploiting its workforce, then that seems reasonable to me. I would, of course, exclude the monopolistic companies from that, and the book-cooking companies, too. A company can make a net 1% profit while it's management makes millions in salary. That's not cooking the books, either, it's an expense resulting in a lower bottom line. |
New Pope Lambasts Greed
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New Pope Lambasts Greed
On 5/14/2013 6:29 PM, Tim wrote:
On May 14, 9:10 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote: I'll be the first to admit I have no great interest in endless discussions here. There aren't enough participants to make it that interesting to me. These usually end up with you splitting hairs with iloogy. HuH? So far, 17 of the 42 posts in this thread are yours Harry... ?;^ ) LOL! |
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