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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
On 5/20/13 6:19 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 5/20/2013 5:31 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 5:11 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:49 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 3:38 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:11 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:04:56 -0400, BAR wrote: Also the whole issue of where does the electricy to refuel these electric cars come from hasn't been addressed. When everyone pulls into their garage each night and plugs their cars into the in-house there will be a surge in demand. Does the current electrical grid have the ability to service this demand? With everyone turning on their electric applicances the demand for electricty will be even greater. Also, do you really want a charging station in your garage attached to your house? I don't the charging stations have a habit of bursting into flames igniting the house on fire. If you are not burning gasoline and diesel in cars and trucks then it will need to be burned at the power generating station. Remember when the wind stops and the sun goes down wind and solar are useless. These are problems electric car fans seem to ignore. Right now the nights are when power is cheap because that is a low demand time but a significant number of cars hitting the grid could easily flip that. You also have the road tax issue. They will need to replace that money. As long as these are fairly rare, it is a good thing for the rich people who can afford to buy one of these toys but that would change quickly if it became a more commonly owned vehicle. The only solution is to use the EZ-Pass system to record every vehicle passing an intersection and charge them a road tax based upon their milage and the weight of the vehicle. This will require that the current gasoline and diesel fuel taxes will have to be repealed. They will not be repealed, they will just be added on to... They are already testing systems like that, I "cited" that for loogie over a year ago... It was iirc, in Oregon... Testing a system which would tax motorists based on a GPS in the cars black box... Swore your info wouldn't get out btw.. LOL! Perhaps the fee will double if you are towing a dirtbike. Yuk, yuk... you add so much.. Shouldn't matter to you...according to one of your posts here, your team is the champion and therefore your sponsors should be paying your way, right? Yeah, sure... if you say so... You claimed a champion. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
On 5/20/2013 7:36 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/20/13 6:19 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 5:31 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 5:11 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:49 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 3:38 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:11 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:04:56 -0400, BAR wrote: Also the whole issue of where does the electricy to refuel these electric cars come from hasn't been addressed. When everyone pulls into their garage each night and plugs their cars into the in-house there will be a surge in demand. Does the current electrical grid have the ability to service this demand? With everyone turning on their electric applicances the demand for electricty will be even greater. Also, do you really want a charging station in your garage attached to your house? I don't the charging stations have a habit of bursting into flames igniting the house on fire. If you are not burning gasoline and diesel in cars and trucks then it will need to be burned at the power generating station. Remember when the wind stops and the sun goes down wind and solar are useless. These are problems electric car fans seem to ignore. Right now the nights are when power is cheap because that is a low demand time but a significant number of cars hitting the grid could easily flip that. You also have the road tax issue. They will need to replace that money. As long as these are fairly rare, it is a good thing for the rich people who can afford to buy one of these toys but that would change quickly if it became a more commonly owned vehicle. The only solution is to use the EZ-Pass system to record every vehicle passing an intersection and charge them a road tax based upon their milage and the weight of the vehicle. This will require that the current gasoline and diesel fuel taxes will have to be repealed. They will not be repealed, they will just be added on to... They are already testing systems like that, I "cited" that for loogie over a year ago... It was iirc, in Oregon... Testing a system which would tax motorists based on a GPS in the cars black box... Swore your info wouldn't get out btw.. LOL! Perhaps the fee will double if you are towing a dirtbike. Yuk, yuk... you add so much.. Shouldn't matter to you...according to one of your posts here, your team is the champion and therefore your sponsors should be paying your way, right? Yeah, sure... if you say so... You claimed a champion. Not quite, but I don't have time to play with you or your dirty friends... |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
On 5/20/13 7:39 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 5/20/2013 7:36 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 6:19 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 5:31 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 5:11 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:49 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 3:38 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:11 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:04:56 -0400, BAR wrote: Also the whole issue of where does the electricy to refuel these electric cars come from hasn't been addressed. When everyone pulls into their garage each night and plugs their cars into the in-house there will be a surge in demand. Does the current electrical grid have the ability to service this demand? With everyone turning on their electric applicances the demand for electricty will be even greater. Also, do you really want a charging station in your garage attached to your house? I don't the charging stations have a habit of bursting into flames igniting the house on fire. If you are not burning gasoline and diesel in cars and trucks then it will need to be burned at the power generating station. Remember when the wind stops and the sun goes down wind and solar are useless. These are problems electric car fans seem to ignore. Right now the nights are when power is cheap because that is a low demand time but a significant number of cars hitting the grid could easily flip that. You also have the road tax issue. They will need to replace that money. As long as these are fairly rare, it is a good thing for the rich people who can afford to buy one of these toys but that would change quickly if it became a more commonly owned vehicle. The only solution is to use the EZ-Pass system to record every vehicle passing an intersection and charge them a road tax based upon their milage and the weight of the vehicle. This will require that the current gasoline and diesel fuel taxes will have to be repealed. They will not be repealed, they will just be added on to... They are already testing systems like that, I "cited" that for loogie over a year ago... It was iirc, in Oregon... Testing a system which would tax motorists based on a GPS in the cars black box... Swore your info wouldn't get out btw.. LOL! Perhaps the fee will double if you are towing a dirtbike. Yuk, yuk... you add so much.. Shouldn't matter to you...according to one of your posts here, your team is the champion and therefore your sponsors should be paying your way, right? Yeah, sure... if you say so... You claimed a champion. Not quite, but I don't have time to play with you or your dirty friends... No, not quite. You did. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
Natural born liar at work again?
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... On 5/20/13 5:11 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:49 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 3:38 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:11 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:04:56 -0400, BAR wrote: Also the whole issue of where does the electricy to refuel these electric cars come from hasn't been addressed. When everyone pulls into their garage each night and plugs their cars into the in-house there will be a surge in demand. Does the current electrical grid have the ability to service this demand? With everyone turning on their electric applicances the demand for electricty will be even greater. Also, do you really want a charging station in your garage attached to your house? I don't the charging stations have a habit of bursting into flames igniting the house on fire. If you are not burning gasoline and diesel in cars and trucks then it will need to be burned at the power generating station. Remember when the wind stops and the sun goes down wind and solar are useless. These are problems electric car fans seem to ignore. Right now the nights are when power is cheap because that is a low demand time but a significant number of cars hitting the grid could easily flip that. You also have the road tax issue. They will need to replace that money. As long as these are fairly rare, it is a good thing for the rich people who can afford to buy one of these toys but that would change quickly if it became a more commonly owned vehicle. The only solution is to use the EZ-Pass system to record every vehicle passing an intersection and charge them a road tax based upon their milage and the weight of the vehicle. This will require that the current gasoline and diesel fuel taxes will have to be repealed. They will not be repealed, they will just be added on to... They are already testing systems like that, I "cited" that for loogie over a year ago... It was iirc, in Oregon... Testing a system which would tax motorists based on a GPS in the cars black box... Swore your info wouldn't get out btw.. LOL! Perhaps the fee will double if you are towing a dirtbike. Yuk, yuk... you add so much.. Shouldn't matter to you...according to one of your posts here, your team is the champion and therefore your sponsors should be paying your way, right? Uh, Harry, I did a little checking through some friends that are in the sport, they did some checking, it's pure horse****!!!! |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... On 5/20/2013 7:36 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 6:19 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 5:31 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 5:11 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:49 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 5/20/13 3:38 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 5/20/2013 3:11 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:04:56 -0400, BAR wrote: Also the whole issue of where does the electricy to refuel these electric cars come from hasn't been addressed. When everyone pulls into their garage each night and plugs their cars into the in-house there will be a surge in demand. Does the current electrical grid have the ability to service this demand? With everyone turning on their electric applicances the demand for electricty will be even greater. Also, do you really want a charging station in your garage attached to your house? I don't the charging stations have a habit of bursting into flames igniting the house on fire. If you are not burning gasoline and diesel in cars and trucks then it will need to be burned at the power generating station. Remember when the wind stops and the sun goes down wind and solar are useless. These are problems electric car fans seem to ignore. Right now the nights are when power is cheap because that is a low demand time but a significant number of cars hitting the grid could easily flip that. You also have the road tax issue. They will need to replace that money. As long as these are fairly rare, it is a good thing for the rich people who can afford to buy one of these toys but that would change quickly if it became a more commonly owned vehicle. The only solution is to use the EZ-Pass system to record every vehicle passing an intersection and charge them a road tax based upon their milage and the weight of the vehicle. This will require that the current gasoline and diesel fuel taxes will have to be repealed. They will not be repealed, they will just be added on to... They are already testing systems like that, I "cited" that for loogie over a year ago... It was iirc, in Oregon... Testing a system which would tax motorists based on a GPS in the cars black box... Swore your info wouldn't get out btw.. LOL! Perhaps the fee will double if you are towing a dirtbike. Yuk, yuk... you add so much.. Shouldn't matter to you...according to one of your posts here, your team is the champion and therefore your sponsors should be paying your way, right? Yeah, sure... if you say so... You claimed a champion. Not quite, but I don't have time to play with you or your dirty friends... Are you saying that you didn't say she was a champion? You DID, and furthermore upon doing some checking, it's a lie. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... In article , says... On 5/18/13 6:04 PM, wrote: On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:19:12 -0400, BAR wrote: In article , says... The only thing R&T didn't like about it was the door handles! How about the problem with lack of "refueling stations"? Ant the fact that it takes over an hour to "refuel" (every 150-180 miles) The 450 mile trip from DC to Boston required 2 recharges, starting with a full charge. No onboard nuclear fueled steam turbine to generate 'lectricity? That's technology and they don't like technology. Rub two sticks together to start a fire is about as technical as they want to get it seems. There is nothing wrong with new technology. The questions arise out of forcing the new technology on to the people before it is ready. Solar panels only work when the sun is shining. Wind turbines only work when the wind is blosing. Coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear work 24 hours a day. A battery is an energy storage device. ------------------------------------ Exactly. It took some other form of energy to create the charge in the battery. Hocus Pocus. Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. A battery is an energy storage device. ------------------------------------ Exactly. It took some other form of energy to create the charge in the battery. Hocus Pocus. Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency. Basically just knees jerking all over the place. Expect that from BAR, but somewhat surprised that Richard wasn't more thoughtful before saying what he did. Kool-Aid has strange effects. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
On Mon, 13 May 2013 12:25:59 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013 05:20:04 -0700 (PDT), John H wrote: On Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:41:24 AM UTC-4, BAR wrote: In article , says... http://tinyurl.com/cwydck5 More proof that Consumer Reports is a useless rag. Bert, check out the last few issues of Road and Track. They love the Tesla. For 90 grand, it ought to be pretty nice. True! John H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
"iBoaterer" wrote in message ... In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... In article , says... On 5/18/13 6:04 PM, wrote: On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:19:12 -0400, BAR wrote: In article , says... The only thing R&T didn't like about it was the door handles! How about the problem with lack of "refueling stations"? Ant the fact that it takes over an hour to "refuel" (every 150-180 miles) The 450 mile trip from DC to Boston required 2 recharges, starting with a full charge. No onboard nuclear fueled steam turbine to generate 'lectricity? That's technology and they don't like technology. Rub two sticks together to start a fire is about as technical as they want to get it seems. There is nothing wrong with new technology. The questions arise out of forcing the new technology on to the people before it is ready. Solar panels only work when the sun is shining. Wind turbines only work when the wind is blosing. Coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear work 24 hours a day. A battery is an energy storage device. ------------------------------------ Exactly. It took some other form of energy to create the charge in the battery. Hocus Pocus. Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? ----------------------------------------- I know I am going to regret this but nobody, including me, said batteries don't work. All that was stated is that it took some source of energy to charge them in the first place, ergo they are a storage device, not a "generator" of electrical power. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
"Boating All Out" wrote in message ... In article , says... In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. A battery is an energy storage device. ------------------------------------ Exactly. It took some other form of energy to create the charge in the battery. Hocus Pocus. Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency. Basically just knees jerking all over the place. Expect that from BAR, but somewhat surprised that Richard wasn't more thoughtful before saying what he did. Kool-Aid has strange effects. --------------------------- OMG. You too? |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... "iBoaterer" wrote in message ... In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... In article , says... On 5/18/13 6:04 PM, wrote: On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:19:12 -0400, BAR wrote: In article , says... The only thing R&T didn't like about it was the door handles! How about the problem with lack of "refueling stations"? Ant the fact that it takes over an hour to "refuel" (every 150-180 miles) The 450 mile trip from DC to Boston required 2 recharges, starting with a full charge. No onboard nuclear fueled steam turbine to generate 'lectricity? That's technology and they don't like technology. Rub two sticks together to start a fire is about as technical as they want to get it seems. There is nothing wrong with new technology. The questions arise out of forcing the new technology on to the people before it is ready. Solar panels only work when the sun is shining. Wind turbines only work when the wind is blosing. Coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear work 24 hours a day. A battery is an energy storage device. ------------------------------------ Exactly. It took some other form of energy to create the charge in the battery. Hocus Pocus. Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? ----------------------------------------- I know I am going to regret this but nobody, including me, said batteries don't work. All that was stated is that it took some source of energy to charge them in the first place, ergo they are a storage device, not a "generator" of electrical power. I'm lost, just who said that they WERE a generator? |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
On 5/21/13 3:23 PM, Eisboch wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message ... In article , says... I know I am going to regret this but nobody, including me, said batteries don't work. All that was stated is that it took some source of energy to charge them in the first place, ergo they are a storage device, not a "generator" of electrical power. -------------------------------------- I'm lost, just who said that they WERE a generator? ------------------------------------------ I knew it. Waste of time and bandwidth. I understood what you meant and said, and I am only an English major. :) |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... On 5/21/13 3:23 PM, Eisboch wrote: "iBoaterer" wrote in message ... In article , says... I know I am going to regret this but nobody, including me, said batteries don't work. All that was stated is that it took some source of energy to charge them in the first place, ergo they are a storage device, not a "generator" of electrical power. -------------------------------------- I'm lost, just who said that they WERE a generator? ------------------------------------------ I knew it. Waste of time and bandwidth. I understood what you meant and said, and I am only an English major. :) Good move with the ass-kissing. Richard is the only sane poster here who will give you the time of day. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... On Tue, 21 May 2013 08:51:56 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency. Basically just knees jerking all over the place. If the power plant is an old technology coal plant, the modern gasoline engine is a lot cleaner. No. It's not. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/au...-are-electric- cars-depends-on-where-you-plug-in.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 Even where dirty coal is generating the electricity, it takes a 40-50 mpg ICE car to beat an electric car in carbon emissions. Who's driving a 40-50 mpg (combined) in coal country? They aren't common, and probably never will be. There are other power plant emissions beside greenhouse, and they aren't addressed in the article. So you have to define "dirty" before making such generalizations. Modern ICE cars with cats are really good at not emitting poisons. But coal use is decreasing, probably less than 40% total now, and will have to become "clean" to survive the EPA. There are also transmission line losses. That averages 6-7% but in the north east where the lines are running over the design capacity, those losses are much higher. IAEI had an article in their magazine a few years ago talking about the problems of line sag because these wires are running so hot.. Heat is lost energy. It is easy to say we will just upgrade the grid but nobody wants a power line in their back yard. The grid will be updated. But you won't be around to see it. Just like my grand pappy never saw an interstate highway. Of course maybe there'll be a zombie apocalypse. Never know. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... "Boating All Out" wrote in message ... In article , says... In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. A battery is an energy storage device. ------------------------------------ Exactly. It took some other form of energy to create the charge in the battery. Hocus Pocus. Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency. Basically just knees jerking all over the place. Expect that from BAR, but somewhat surprised that Richard wasn't more thoughtful before saying what he did. Kool-Aid has strange effects. --------------------------- OMG. You too? Me too - what? You supported somebody (BAR) saying "The questions arise out of forcing the new technology on to the people before it is ready." Everybody knows a battery stores energy. Is that what you were agreeing with? If that's the case, then good for you. There's probably somebody out there who still thinks a battery generates electricity and never dies, so that makes you smarter than him. And if you think a battery is "hocus pocus," good for you on that too. Probably makes you sympatico with some as yet unfound New Guinea aboriginals who would think a battery is a magical device. If you were really just stating the obvious about a battery, my apologies. I took it as an often used poor argument against battery power by right-wingers. Namely, that power generation is just transferred elsewhere. That's true, but doesn't mean that batteries aren't more efficient in fossil fuel consumption than an ICE. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
On 5/21/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:54:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Tue, 21 May 2013 08:51:56 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency. Basically just knees jerking all over the place. If the power plant is an old technology coal plant, the modern gasoline engine is a lot cleaner. There are also transmission line losses. That averages 6-7% but in the north east where the lines are running over the design capacity, those losses are much higher. IAEI had an article in their magazine a few years ago talking about the problems of line sag because these wires are running so hot.. Heat is lost energy. It is easy to say we will just upgrade the grid but nobody wants a power line in their back yard. Gee, why all of a sudden it's an environmental issue and an environmental issue only? If electric cars are not an environmental issue, why bother with them? If the idea of electric cars was attractive enough the market would provide them to us without all of the government giveaways (AKA rich people welfare) I really tried to get on board but I still can't get the money to work out even building a kit car, starting with a car I own. I am not rich enough to just have an electric car as a toy. What do you drive? If it makes you feel better. Solar PV is starting to look attractive to me but, as usual, the government is the biggest stumbling block. I'd buy an all-electric car the size of a Toyota Corolla if it sold for about $20,000, had a 300-mile range at 55-60 mph, and there weren't long term issues with the batteries. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
True North wrote:
Natural born liar at work again? Harry never leaves his computer. Are you new? |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
On Tue, 21 May 2013 17:06:55 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
Most of the tiny, roller-skate-on-wheels electric cars being marketed today are good for about 80 miles before recharge. A full recharge takes 4-8 hours. Not very comfortable and unrealistic for a 400 mile trip. ========= I would guesstimate that about 95% of my driving could be done with a reliable range of 120 miles. Without some breakthrough it may never be realistic to take an EV on long trips. Most people have a second vehicle of some sort however. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
"Hank©" wrote in message b.com... I just bought an electric bike. The 9AH Lion Battery for it was $400. It's supposed to be good for 2000 charge cycles. I'll let you know If I have trouble charging it in freezing weather. -------------------------------------------- Wise ass. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... "Boating All Out" wrote in message ... In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. A battery is an energy storage device. ------------------------------------ Exactly. It took some other form of energy to create the charge in the battery. Hocus Pocus. Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency. Basically just knees jerking all over the place. Expect that from BAR, but somewhat surprised that Richard wasn't more thoughtful before saying what he did. Kool-Aid has strange effects. --------------------------------------------- I obviously speak an unknown foreign language when trying to discuss anything with Iboaterer, so I'll try to do better with you. All I was pointing out was that the energy contained in a battery powered automobile was created somewhere outside of that battery. It may have come from fossil fuels, including natural gas, hydro, wind, solar nuclear or whatever. I think everyone realizes that. I agree that the electric motor is far more efficient than a gasoline or diesel powered engine in terms of converting stored energy into something that produces useful work. No debate from me there. My reasoning for being less than optimistic about battery powered autos is not because I don't embrace new technology. Hell, I made a decent living for almost 30 years living and breathing new technology. My reasoning is more related to the public's likely acceptance of battery power anytime in the near future due to it's current limitations. If it isn't accepted (or mandated) the development of better batteries and battery powered autos will suffer and be slow in coming. Some companies have already gone belly up and the few that show promise have been living off of federal subsidies. A major shift to natural gas powered cars or maybe even a breakthrough in fuel cell technology will put these strictly battery powered cars in the archives of history. The American culture includes freedom of movement. People travel and often drive long distances. Battery powered vehicles just aren't up to the task of seamlessly replacing conventional fossil fuel engines without a major change in our driving habits, desires and overall love affair with travel by car. Don't see that changing in the near term. Most of the tiny, roller-skate-on-wheels electric cars being marketed today are good for about 80 miles before recharge. A full recharge takes 4-8 hours. Not very comfortable and unrealistic for a 400 mile trip. They are probably ideal for local, run to the store use, or short commuting to work but the average family is going to need something more substantial for longer trips. How many people are going to spend big bucks for a battery powered, local commuter car in addition to the standard, family sedan? Some, like the Tesla Model S, claims a 265 mile range. Much better but it requires a special type of charger designed specifically for it's type of batteries and still takes an hour or so to recharge. Nice car and all but at $80K for a "look at me, I'm Green" with still limited range, it isn't going to do it for most. One thing about lithium-ion batteries that has been known for years is their poor performance at temperatures below freezing and more importantly it's inability to be safely charged at temperatures at or below freezing. There are many sources containing warnings about this with regard to leaving your cell phone charging in your car and the potential damage it can produce in the colder climates but I haven't heard a thing about charging lithium ion car batteries at below freezing temperatures. Has that problem been fixed? I haven't heard boo. Yeah, sure, I'm a fool because YOU made a statement that batteries don't produce energy they store it, although, I haven't seen where anybody said anything to the contrary. Add to that the fact that a gas tank, diesel tank, CNG tank, steam boiler ALL do the same thing as a battery, store potential energy, makes it even more ludicrous that you brand someone else a "fool". |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... In article , says... On Tue, 21 May 2013 08:51:56 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency. Basically just knees jerking all over the place. If the power plant is an old technology coal plant, the modern gasoline engine is a lot cleaner. No. It's not. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/au...-are-electric- cars-depends-on-where-you-plug-in.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 Even where dirty coal is generating the electricity, it takes a 40-50 mpg ICE car to beat an electric car in carbon emissions. Who's driving a 40-50 mpg (combined) in coal country? They aren't common, and probably never will be. There are other power plant emissions beside greenhouse, and they aren't addressed in the article. So you have to define "dirty" before making such generalizations. Modern ICE cars with cats are really good at not emitting poisons. But coal use is decreasing, probably less than 40% total now, and will have to become "clean" to survive the EPA. There are also transmission line losses. That averages 6-7% but in the north east where the lines are running over the design capacity, those losses are much higher. IAEI had an article in their magazine a few years ago talking about the problems of line sag because these wires are running so hot.. Heat is lost energy. It is easy to say we will just upgrade the grid but nobody wants a power line in their back yard. The grid will be updated. But you won't be around to see it. Just like my grand pappy never saw an interstate highway. Of course maybe there'll be a zombie apocalypse. Never know. What is amazingly hilarious is that these same types of arguments arose when the internal combustion engine was in it's infancy! I'd bet that the same holds true for steam, and probably when caveman made fire, they thought that that damned new technology would burn up all of the wood they use to built shelter.... |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article ,
says... On 5/21/13 5:25 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:54:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Tue, 21 May 2013 08:51:56 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so foolish as to depend on that? The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency. Basically just knees jerking all over the place. If the power plant is an old technology coal plant, the modern gasoline engine is a lot cleaner. There are also transmission line losses. That averages 6-7% but in the north east where the lines are running over the design capacity, those losses are much higher. IAEI had an article in their magazine a few years ago talking about the problems of line sag because these wires are running so hot.. Heat is lost energy. It is easy to say we will just upgrade the grid but nobody wants a power line in their back yard. Gee, why all of a sudden it's an environmental issue and an environmental issue only? If electric cars are not an environmental issue, why bother with them? If the idea of electric cars was attractive enough the market would provide them to us without all of the government giveaways (AKA rich people welfare) I really tried to get on board but I still can't get the money to work out even building a kit car, starting with a car I own. I am not rich enough to just have an electric car as a toy. What do you drive? If it makes you feel better. Solar PV is starting to look attractive to me but, as usual, the government is the biggest stumbling block. I'd buy an all-electric car the size of a Toyota Corolla if it sold for about $20,000, had a 300-mile range at 55-60 mph, and there weren't long term issues with the batteries. That's easy enough! |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
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The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
wrote in message ... On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:07:47 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: I'd buy an all-electric car the size of a Toyota Corolla if it sold for about $20,000, had a 300-mile range at 55-60 mph, and there weren't long term issues with the batteries. That's easy enough! If it is so easy, why isn't someone doing it. ---------------------------------------- They can't get the price of the 18' trailer carrying the extra batteries down. |
The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
In article , says...
In article , says... On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:07:47 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: I'd buy an all-electric car the size of a Toyota Corolla if it sold for about $20,000, had a 300-mile range at 55-60 mph, and there weren't long term issues with the batteries. That's easy enough! If it is so easy, why isn't someone doing it. They are coming down in price as we speak. Why don't you take one for the team and help bring down the price by purchasing one of these over priced 30 mile per charge electric vehicles. Don't wait for other people to do it, be a leader yourself. |
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