|
Ethanol?
|
Ethanol?
In article ,
says... "Wayne B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 16:45:40 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: === I did, and it is true if you add in all of the agricultural energy such as fertilizer production, etc. It was true, not anymore. --------------------------------------------- Well, halleluiah and praise be to the corn gods. Cheap perpetual energy. Oh, and by the way, the science community better get busy re-writing the laws of physics. === It's not truly a perpetual motion system because the corn crop benefits from a lot of free solar energy. The question is whether or not the crop consumes more fossil fuel in its production than it yields as a motor fuel. Apparently recent gains in crop yield and ethanol production efficiency have tipped the balance so that ethanol is now yielding slightly more energy than it uses. It's still a lousy fuel however, and thanks to the farm lobby it will be very difficult to get rid of it. You can still buy non-ethanol fuel at some marinas and at all general aviation airports. The av-gas has lead in it however so it will ruin the catalytic converter in a vehicle. ---------------------------------------------- I agree with the "free" solar energy contribution but I still subscribe to ethanol being a net negative in terms of the real costs of growing, harvesting, producing and transporting it to mixing stations. It cannot be pipelined as in the case of gasoline and has to be transported by tank truck or rail. I've tried to confirm yea or nay but it seems that the articles I've found are about equally divided on the subject, depending on who wrote it. It seems the leaded AVGAS debate is still on going but it appears that it too will eventually be replaced with a no-lead alternative. When I was into classic cars I got a fill-up for the 67 GTO I had at the airport where I took flying lessons. I knew the guy that ran the fueling station and he let me drive out to the pump and get a quick tank full. To be honest, I never really noticed any difference in performance, even though the AVGAS was 100 octane (100LL). Probably would have if I had adjusted the timing, but I never bothered. It faces challenges just like any new technology, but it can be piped and there are several proposals to build and use pipelines for ethanol. http://tinyurl.com/cbbxz6l |
Ethanol?
In article ,
says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:14:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: It faces challenges just like any new technology, but it can be piped and there are several proposals to build and use pipelines for ethanol. http://tinyurl.com/cbbxz6l There is nothing new about ethanol. Distilling alcohol predates petroleum by a thousand years Oh, crap, you are going to take BARS stance that NOTHING in the process has changed since the dinosaurs?? REALLY????? |
Ethanol?
In article ,
says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:00:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:14:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: It faces challenges just like any new technology, but it can be piped and there are several proposals to build and use pipelines for ethanol. http://tinyurl.com/cbbxz6l There is nothing new about ethanol. Distilling alcohol predates petroleum by a thousand years Oh, crap, you are going to take BARS stance that NOTHING in the process has changed since the dinosaurs?? REALLY????? The principle advances in the whole process are agricultural. We use more chemicals, more water, bigger machines and genetically altered corn. Nope. |
Ethanol?
In article ,
says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:49:14 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:00:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:14:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: It faces challenges just like any new technology, but it can be piped and there are several proposals to build and use pipelines for ethanol. http://tinyurl.com/cbbxz6l There is nothing new about ethanol. Distilling alcohol predates petroleum by a thousand years Oh, crap, you are going to take BARS stance that NOTHING in the process has changed since the dinosaurs?? REALLY????? The principle advances in the whole process are agricultural. We use more chemicals, more water, bigger machines and genetically altered corn. Nope. cite No problem! http://tinyurl.com/ctx4n29 http://www.nrel.gov/biomass/pdfs/40742.pdf http://tinyurl.com/d39dskp http://tinyurl.com/cqa4o6t |
Ethanol?
In article , says...
In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:49:14 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:00:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:14:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: It faces challenges just like any new technology, but it can be piped and there are several proposals to build and use pipelines for ethanol. http://tinyurl.com/cbbxz6l There is nothing new about ethanol. Distilling alcohol predates petroleum by a thousand years Oh, crap, you are going to take BARS stance that NOTHING in the process has changed since the dinosaurs?? REALLY????? The principle advances in the whole process are agricultural. We use more chemicals, more water, bigger machines and genetically altered corn. Nope. cite No problem! http://tinyurl.com/ctx4n29 http://www.nrel.gov/biomass/pdfs/40742.pdf http://tinyurl.com/d39dskp http://tinyurl.com/cqa4o6t None of these articles describe anything about an improved distillation process. |
Ethanol?
In article ,
says... In article , says... In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:49:14 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:00:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:14:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: It faces challenges just like any new technology, but it can be piped and there are several proposals to build and use pipelines for ethanol. http://tinyurl.com/cbbxz6l There is nothing new about ethanol. Distilling alcohol predates petroleum by a thousand years Oh, crap, you are going to take BARS stance that NOTHING in the process has changed since the dinosaurs?? REALLY????? The principle advances in the whole process are agricultural. We use more chemicals, more water, bigger machines and genetically altered corn. Nope. cite No problem! http://tinyurl.com/ctx4n29 http://www.nrel.gov/biomass/pdfs/40742.pdf http://tinyurl.com/d39dskp http://tinyurl.com/cqa4o6t None of these articles describe anything about an improved distillation process. Really?? Come on now, are you just playing dumb or did you really not understand? |
Ethanol?
In article ,
says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 14:12:45 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:49:14 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:00:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:14:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: It faces challenges just like any new technology, but it can be piped and there are several proposals to build and use pipelines for ethanol. http://tinyurl.com/cbbxz6l There is nothing new about ethanol. Distilling alcohol predates petroleum by a thousand years Oh, crap, you are going to take BARS stance that NOTHING in the process has changed since the dinosaurs?? REALLY????? The principle advances in the whole process are agricultural. We use more chemicals, more water, bigger machines and genetically altered corn. Nope. cite No problem! http://tinyurl.com/ctx4n29 http://www.nrel.gov/biomass/pdfs/40742.pdf http://tinyurl.com/d39dskp http://tinyurl.com/cqa4o6t How do any of these address a better still? Who said it did? YOU said that the advances "are agricultural", I said no, and you asked for cite, you have it. |
Ethanol?
On 4/29/2013 12:57 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 14:12:45 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:49:14 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:00:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:14:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: It faces challenges just like any new technology, but it can be piped and there are several proposals to build and use pipelines for ethanol. http://tinyurl.com/cbbxz6l There is nothing new about ethanol. Distilling alcohol predates petroleum by a thousand years Oh, crap, you are going to take BARS stance that NOTHING in the process has changed since the dinosaurs?? REALLY????? The principle advances in the whole process are agricultural. We use more chemicals, more water, bigger machines and genetically altered corn. Nope. cite No problem! http://tinyurl.com/ctx4n29 http://www.nrel.gov/biomass/pdfs/40742.pdf http://tinyurl.com/d39dskp http://tinyurl.com/cqa4o6t How do any of these address a better still? .... and the even bigger question to kevin is "why is it ok to build pipeline for ethanol that isn't even ready to ship, but not ok to build for oil which we have plenty of?" |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:44 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com