On 4/26/13 9:59 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 09:23:23 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

Maybe if the right wouldn't be SO afraid of new technology, we could
move forward and make engines that would be just fine on ethanol.

===

That would be the wrong direction. Ethanol is not a good fuel for
all the reasons previously mentioned:

1. It is inefficient - takes more net energy to produce than it
yields as an engine fuel.

2. Wastes cropland and other agricultural resources.

3. Drives up the federal defecit via farm subsidies.

4. Raises the cost of food and decreases food supplies.

The only people who like ethanol are the farmers and they are lobbying
hard for E15. It's time to stop this nonsense. The wave of the
future for engine fuels is natural gas. We've got tons of it,
supplys are growing, and it is inexpensive and clean burning. Major
trucking companies are already starting to convert and the railroads
are not far behind. Once the infrastructure for distribution and
sales are in place, light trucks and passenger vehicles will be next
in line.



A lot of commercial vehicles and buses in the DC area are running on
CNG. I think the fuel tanks have to be larger to make up for the
compression of the gas and stronger, too. I haven't read of any really
serious downsides to CNG.

On 4/26/13 10:06 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


Maybe if the right wouldn't be SO afraid of new technology, we could
move forward and make engines that would be just fine on ethanol.

-------------------------------------------------------

That's not the problem. The problem is that ethanol was forced upon
the industry and public even when testing indicated that many existing
fuel delivery systems would be adversely affected by it. The last boat
I bought had one year old, USCG approved fuel lines that were perfectly
fine but the survey revealed that they should be replaced with a newer,
ethanol resistant type. Not an easy or inexpensive task on a twin
engine boat with fuel tanks located in an almost inaccessible location.

At least one major boat manufacturer had to recall all their boats when
it was found that ethanol laced fuel was dissolving the resin used to
make fiberglass fuel tanks that were an integral part of the boat's
molded design. The resin was carried into the engine's fuel delivery
system, totally screwing up the fuel injectors.

More newer car engines require high octane premium fuel in order to get
full performance without having the engine sensors retard timing, thanks
to ethanol.

It was a bad idea then and now the government wants to make it even worse.






The local lawn gear parts guy recommends mixing in Sta-bil "marine" (the
blue bottle) gas preservative *year around* into the five gallon jug I
use to fuel the four cycle lawn tractor and mower, because he says, the
ethanol laced gasoline deteriorates quickly. And to add some to the
smaller jug I use for the trimmer and chain saw. He doesn't sell
Sta-bil, so if I buy some, he's not making a dollar off it.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 10:47:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/26/13 10:06 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


Maybe if the right wouldn't be SO afraid of new technology, we could
move forward and make engines that would be just fine on ethanol.

-------------------------------------------------------

That's not the problem. The problem is that ethanol was forced upon
the industry and public even when testing indicated that many existing
fuel delivery systems would be adversely affected by it. The last boat
I bought had one year old, USCG approved fuel lines that were perfectly
fine but the survey revealed that they should be replaced with a newer,
ethanol resistant type. Not an easy or inexpensive task on a twin
engine boat with fuel tanks located in an almost inaccessible location.

At least one major boat manufacturer had to recall all their boats when
it was found that ethanol laced fuel was dissolving the resin used to
make fiberglass fuel tanks that were an integral part of the boat's
molded design. The resin was carried into the engine's fuel delivery
system, totally screwing up the fuel injectors.

More newer car engines require high octane premium fuel in order to get
full performance without having the engine sensors retard timing, thanks
to ethanol.

It was a bad idea then and now the government wants to make it even worse.






The local lawn gear parts guy recommends mixing in Sta-bil "marine" (the
blue bottle) gas preservative *year around* into the five gallon jug I
use to fuel the four cycle lawn tractor and mower, because he says, the
ethanol laced gasoline deteriorates quickly. And to add some to the
smaller jug I use for the trimmer and chain saw. He doesn't sell
Sta-bil, so if I buy some, he's not making a dollar off it.

And now we have another reason to do away with it - a requirement to add another additive to make it
'safer to use'.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


Maybe if the right wouldn't be SO afraid of new technology, we could
move forward and make engines that would be just fine on ethanol.

-------------------------------------------------------

That's not the problem. The problem is that ethanol was forced
upon
the industry and public even when testing indicated that many
existing
fuel delivery systems would be adversely affected by it. The last
boat I bought had one year old, USCG approved fuel lines that were
perfectly fine but the survey revealed that they should be replaced
with a newer, ethanol resistant type. Not an easy or inexpensive
task on a twin engine boat with fuel tanks located in an almost
inaccessible location.

At least one major boat manufacturer had to recall all their boats
when it was found that ethanol laced fuel was dissolving the resin
used to make fiberglass fuel tanks that were an integral part of the
boat's molded design. The resin was carried into the engine's fuel
delivery system, totally screwing up the fuel injectors.

More newer car engines require high octane premium fuel in order to
get full performance without having the engine sensors retard
timing,
thanks to ethanol.

It was a bad idea then and now the government wants to make it even
worse.





http://tinyurl.com/o6ws4e

---------------------------------------------------

Don't think this guy is impressed with a report by the Department of
Energy that is pushing to increase the percent of ethanol in gasoline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVs-Yc5FomM

In article , says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


Maybe if the right wouldn't be SO afraid of new technology, we could
move forward and make engines that would be just fine on ethanol.

-------------------------------------------------------

That's not the problem. The problem is that ethanol was forced upon
the industry and public even when testing indicated that many existing
fuel delivery systems would be adversely affected by it. The last
boat I bought had one year old, USCG approved fuel lines that were
perfectly fine but the survey revealed that they should be replaced
with a newer, ethanol resistant type. Not an easy or inexpensive
task on a twin engine boat with fuel tanks located in an almost
inaccessible location.

At least one major boat manufacturer had to recall all their boats
when it was found that ethanol laced fuel was dissolving the resin
used to make fiberglass fuel tanks that were an integral part of the
boat's molded design. The resin was carried into the engine's fuel
delivery system, totally screwing up the fuel injectors.

More newer car engines require high octane premium fuel in order to
get full performance without having the engine sensors retard timing,
thanks to ethanol.

It was a bad idea then and now the government wants to make it even
worse.

Didn't Al Gore finally admit that turning our food source into fuel was a bad idea?

On 4/26/13 5:38 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


Maybe if the right wouldn't be SO afraid of new technology, we could
move forward and make engines that would be just fine on ethanol.

-------------------------------------------------------

That's not the problem. The problem is that ethanol was forced upon
the industry and public even when testing indicated that many existing
fuel delivery systems would be adversely affected by it. The last
boat I bought had one year old, USCG approved fuel lines that were
perfectly fine but the survey revealed that they should be replaced
with a newer, ethanol resistant type. Not an easy or inexpensive
task on a twin engine boat with fuel tanks located in an almost
inaccessible location.

At least one major boat manufacturer had to recall all their boats
when it was found that ethanol laced fuel was dissolving the resin
used to make fiberglass fuel tanks that were an integral part of the
boat's molded design. The resin was carried into the engine's fuel
delivery system, totally screwing up the fuel injectors.

More newer car engines require high octane premium fuel in order to
get full performance without having the engine sensors retard timing,
thanks to ethanol.

It was a bad idea then and now the government wants to make it even
worse.





http://tinyurl.com/o6ws4e

---------------------------------------------------

Don't think this guy is impressed with a report by the Department of
Energy that is pushing to increase the percent of ethanol in gasoline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVs-Yc5FomM




Wow...great video...thanks.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:38:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


Maybe if the right wouldn't be SO afraid of new technology, we could
move forward and make engines that would be just fine on ethanol.

-------------------------------------------------------

That's not the problem. The problem is that ethanol was forced
upon
the industry and public even when testing indicated that many
existing
fuel delivery systems would be adversely affected by it. The last
boat I bought had one year old, USCG approved fuel lines that were
perfectly fine but the survey revealed that they should be replaced
with a newer, ethanol resistant type. Not an easy or inexpensive
task on a twin engine boat with fuel tanks located in an almost
inaccessible location.

At least one major boat manufacturer had to recall all their boats
when it was found that ethanol laced fuel was dissolving the resin
used to make fiberglass fuel tanks that were an integral part of the
boat's molded design. The resin was carried into the engine's fuel
delivery system, totally screwing up the fuel injectors.

More newer car engines require high octane premium fuel in order to
get full performance without having the engine sensors retard
timing,
thanks to ethanol.

It was a bad idea then and now the government wants to make it even
worse.





http://tinyurl.com/o6ws4e

---------------------------------------------------

Don't think this guy is impressed with a report by the Department of
Energy that is pushing to increase the percent of ethanol in gasoline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVs-Yc5FomM


Looks like 'new technology' has come up with a way to turn an engine into lots of sinkers.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

In article ,
says...

Don't think this guy is impressed with a report by the Department of
Energy that is pushing to increase the percent of ethanol in gasoline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVs-Yc5FomM

E15 is a bad idea to increase "renewable" fuel and probably won't fly.
But E10 came about because the Clean Air Act demanded that gas be
oxygenated to lessen air pollution. MTBE was used as an oxygenator, but
was found to pollute ground water, so E10 came into use. Of course that
was also influenced by lobbying, but people seem to forget the primary
purpose of E10 is to provide oxygenated fuel and cleaner air.
It's been around for decades, and Mercury Marine has no issues with it.
The engine failure in the above YT vid had nothing to do with E10, and
if fuel line particles hosed an injector (the actual lean-run cause) it
was most likely the owner screwed it by using cheap-ass fuel hose that
was not in spec for fuel. Certainly wasn't fuel hose supplied by
Mercury. Fuel hoses have been E10 compatible for about 30 years now.
Likewise, E10 probably played no part in Harry's fuel bowl corrosion,
despite his mower mechanics voodoo thinking. Water has intruded into
fuel systems and caused corrosion long before E10. Fuel care isn't a
new subject.
This is an excellent fuel care and E10 explanation from Mercury experts,
debunking E10 myths. But it's long, and full of detail, so be
forewarned.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/service...t/storage-and-
maintenance/faqs/outboards/?category=ethanol#FuelLines

Scroll down a bit and play the vid. Sound gets better after a few
minutes. You might just start at about the 4 minute point, and skip the
into.

"Boating All Out" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

Don't think this guy is impressed with a report by the Department of
Energy that is pushing to increase the percent of ethanol in
gasoline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVs-Yc5FomM

E15 is a bad idea to increase "renewable" fuel and probably won't fly.
But E10 came about because the Clean Air Act demanded that gas be
oxygenated to lessen air pollution. MTBE was used as an oxygenator,
but
was found to pollute ground water, so E10 came into use. Of course
that
was also influenced by lobbying, but people seem to forget the primary
purpose of E10 is to provide oxygenated fuel and cleaner air.
It's been around for decades, and Mercury Marine has no issues with
it.
The engine failure in the above YT vid had nothing to do with E10, and
if fuel line particles hosed an injector (the actual lean-run cause)
it
was most likely the owner screwed it by using cheap-ass fuel hose that
was not in spec for fuel. Certainly wasn't fuel hose supplied by
Mercury. Fuel hoses have been E10 compatible for about 30 years now.
Likewise, E10 probably played no part in Harry's fuel bowl corrosion,
despite his mower mechanics voodoo thinking. Water has intruded into
fuel systems and caused corrosion long before E10. Fuel care isn't a
new subject.
This is an excellent fuel care and E10 explanation from Mercury
experts,
debunking E10 myths. But it's long, and full of detail, so be
forewarned.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/service...t/storage-and-
maintenance/faqs/outboards/?category=ethanol#FuelLines

Scroll down a bit and play the vid. Sound gets better after a few
minutes. You might just start at about the 4 minute point, and skip
the
into.

--------------------------------------------------

There are all sorts of studies, reports and anecdotal stories about
ethanol in gasoline, probably as many pro as con. The EPA mandated
the auto industry to design cars to run on E-10. For many years gas
sold at marinas remained ethanol free, but eventually the marine
industry had to follow suit and design fuel systems and engines to run
on E-10 also.

One of the biggest problems with E-10 is consistency in the mixture
ratios. Gasoline and ethanol can't be pipelined together. (I wonder
why). Ethanol has to be transported separately by truck or rail car
and then mixed. It doesn't take much more than the 10 percent in
E-10 to cause problems that several car manufacturers will not cover
under warranty. BMW, Toyota, Nissan and others required a fuel
sample to be taken and analyzed prior to certain warranty engine work.
If above 10 percent, the warranty is not honored. There are
documented cases where the ethanol content was as much as 18 percent
in gasoline called "E-10".

So, the manufacturers can design a car or a boat engine to run on 10
percent ethanol. But how much ethanol is really in the fuel?
I'd say it's fine to require new boat and car engines to run on 10
percent or 15 percent, but regular, plain ol' gasoline should also
be readily available for those with older vehicles and/or engines.

On Apr 26, 7:17*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Boating All Out" *wrote in al-september.org...

In article ,
says...



Don't think this guy is impressed with a report by the Department of
Energy that is pushing to increase the percent of ethanol in
gasoline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVs-Yc5FomM

E15 is a bad idea to increase "renewable" fuel and probably won't fly.
But E10 came about because the Clean Air Act demanded that gas be
oxygenated to lessen air pollution. *MTBE was used as an oxygenator,
but
was found to pollute ground water, so E10 came into use. *Of course
that
was also influenced by lobbying, but people seem to forget the primary
purpose of E10 is to provide oxygenated fuel and cleaner air.
It's been around for decades, and Mercury Marine has no issues with
it.
The engine failure in the above YT vid had nothing to do with E10, and
if fuel line particles hosed an injector (the actual lean-run cause)
it
was most likely the owner screwed it by using cheap-ass fuel hose that
was not in spec for fuel. *Certainly wasn't fuel hose supplied by
Mercury. *Fuel hoses have been E10 compatible for about 30 years now.
Likewise, E10 probably played no part in Harry's fuel bowl corrosion,
despite his mower mechanics voodoo thinking. *Water has intruded into
fuel systems and caused corrosion long before E10. *Fuel care isn't a
new subject.
This is an excellent fuel care and E10 explanation from Mercury
experts,
debunking E10 myths. *But it's long, and full of detail, so be
forewarned.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/service...t/storage-and-
maintenance/faqs/outboards/?category=ethanol#FuelLines

Scroll down a bit and play the vid. *Sound gets better after a few
minutes. *You might just start at about the 4 minute point, and skip
the
into.

--------------------------------------------------

There are all sorts of studies, reports and anecdotal stories about
ethanol in gasoline, probably as many pro as con. *The EPA mandated
the auto industry to design cars to run on E-10. * For many years gas
sold at marinas remained ethanol free, but eventually the marine
industry had to follow suit and design fuel systems and engines to run
on E-10 also.

* One of the biggest problems with E-10 is consistency in the mixture
ratios. Gasoline and ethanol can't be pipelined together. (I wonder
why). *Ethanol has to be transported separately by truck or rail car
and then mixed. * It doesn't take much more than the 10 percent in
E-10 to cause problems that several car manufacturers will not cover
under warranty. * BMW, Toyota, Nissan and others required a fuel
sample to be taken and analyzed prior to certain warranty engine work.
If above 10 percent, the warranty is not honored. *There are
documented cases where the ethanol content was as much as 18 percent
in gasoline called "E-10".

So, the manufacturers can design a car or a boat engine to run on 10
percent ethanol. * But how much ethanol is really in the fuel?
I'd say it's fine to require new boat and car engines to run on 10
percent or 15 percent, *but regular, plain ol' *gasoline should also
be readily available for those with older vehicles and/or engines.

we have a local station that has a pump dedicated to 100% gasoline
only. I use it in the boat[s] and for the chainsaws and 2-cycle weed
eaters.

The car, tractor and carburated lawnmower doesn't care what goes
through them...

Well, at least not diesel or E-85. The 8-N might be able to swallow
it the E-95 but I don't think my cars would take a liking to corn
squeezin's