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Hank©[_2_] April 23rd 13 05:54 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
On 4/23/2013 12:51 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/23/13 12:45 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:25:00 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 11:51 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:14:58 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 10:40 AM, wrote:


" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed."


You seem to have left off some significant words there, fella.

You don't mind leaving out "Congress shall make no law" when your
local church wants to put a nativity scene in the park.


Local churches can put up whatever they wish on church grounds or other
private property. Government is not allowed to show preference for one
religion over another. Erecting a nativity scene on public property
violates the establishment clause. Unfortunately, the right-wing Supreme
court has allowed some slippage in the recent decade.

You are still left out some significant words

How do you reconcile that with "Congress shall make no law"?

This is not a law, it is only a public entity, a church or religious
group, using public property.
If you called it a demonstration they would be allowed to say or do
just about anything they wanted to do.
We had "occupy" demonstrators setting up all sorts of displays in our
city park and they stayed there for weeks. Was the government
"establishing" a war on corporations?
There were more people offended by that here than any nativity scene
would ever be.


The words implicitly deny churches use of public property. Government
cannot show preference to one religion over another. That's a clause
closely connected to the "no law" language.

Demonstrations are not the same as displays. Every year, for example, we
get thousands of religious simpies up here protesting Roe v. Wade, and
they camp out on the steps of the Supreme Court and march down the
public's streets and sidewalks. So long as they have a permit, such
behavior is allowed.

Demonstrating against corporate excess is not the same as promoting the
religious crib scenes of a Jewish baby.



It's hard to imagine why this has your panties in a wad.

iBoaterer[_3_] April 23rd 13 06:06 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:55:16 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:39:35 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Weren't you one of the people who supported anti war demonstrators
protesting military funerals?

I fully support constitutional rights, don't you?

So you think constitutional rights are absolute?

OK by me.

" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed."

You left out some VERY important words. But, what I am saying is that
you can't cherry pick. If you want to make the constitution the law of
the land, so be it. But you don't want that. You want to use the parts
that appeal to you, and not the parts that don't appeal to you.


You cherry pick "freedom of speech" from the 1st amendment without
including "Congress shall make no law".

If you are going to say that was modified by the 14th amendment
prohibiting a state or local government from making a law prohibiting
free speech, I would counter that state and local government could not
make a law stronger than the federal ones on gun ownership.

It is clear we do limit rights and most have been so strictly limited
that they virtually fail to exist. What does the 4th amendment mean if
a cop can stop your car for virtually any reason, demand everyone get
out, demand ID from everyone, (MARYLAND v. WILSON) search them, the
car and the passenger compartment of the car (ostensibly for weapons)
without a warrant or probable cause(Michigan v. Long )?
If there is a "custodial arrest" (eliminating that confusion about
what an arrest is) they can also impound the car and search it in
detail under the guise of an "inventory".(New York v. Belton)
They can even make you wait on the side of the road until a dog
arrives for a sniff (ILLINOIS v. CABALLES)

I didn't cherry pick ANYTHING. In the case of Maryland v. Wilson, there
was probable cause and laws were broken LONG before the search.

"At about 7:30 p.m. on a June evening, Maryland state trooper David
Hughes observed a passenger car driving southbound on I-95 in Baltimore
County at a speed of 64 miles per hour. The posted speed limit was 55
miles per hour, and the car had no regular license tag; there was a torn
piece of paper reading "Enterprise Rent A Car" dangling from its rear.
Hughes activated his lights and sirens, signaling the car to pull over,
but it continued driving for another mile and a half until it finally
did so.

During the pursuit, Hughes noticed that there were three occupants in
the car and that the two passengers turned to look at him several times,
repeatedly ducking below sight level and then reappearing. As Hughes
approached the car on foot, the driver alighted and met him halfway. The
driver was trembling and appeared extremely nervous, but nonetheless
produced a valid Connecticut driver's license. Hughes instructed him to
return to the car and retrieve the rental documents, and he complied.
During this encounter, Hughes noticed that the front seat passenger,
respondent Jerry Lee Wilson, was sweating and also appeared extremely
nervous. While the driver was sitting in the driver's seat looking for
the rental papers, Hughes ordered Wilson out of the car.

When Wilson exited the car, a quantity of crack cocaine fell to the
ground. Wilson was then arrested and charged with possession of cocaine
with intent to distribute. Before trial, Wilson moved to suppress the
evidence, arguing that Hughes' ordering him out of the car constituted
an unreasonable seizure under the Fourth Amendment. The Circuit Court
for Baltimore County agreed, and granted respondent's motion to
suppress. On appeal, the Court of Special Appeals of Maryland affirmed,
106 Md. App. 24, 664 A. 2d 1 (1995), ruling that Pennsylvania v. Mimms
does not apply to passengers. The Court of Appeals of Maryland denied
certiorari. 340 Md. 502, 667 A. 2d 342 (1995). We granted certiorari,
518 U. S. ___ (1996), and now reverse."

But, the task remains, are you going to uphold the constitution for some
things and not for others?

iBoaterer[_3_] April 23rd 13 06:09 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:25:00 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 11:51 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:14:58 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 10:40 AM, wrote:


" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed."


You seem to have left off some significant words there, fella.

You don't mind leaving out "Congress shall make no law" when your
local church wants to put a nativity scene in the park.


Local churches can put up whatever they wish on church grounds or other
private property. Government is not allowed to show preference for one
religion over another. Erecting a nativity scene on public property
violates the establishment clause. Unfortunately, the right-wing Supreme
court has allowed some slippage in the recent decade.

You are still left out some significant words

How do you reconcile that with "Congress shall make no law"?

This is not a law, it is only a public entity, a church or religious
group, using public property.
If you called it a demonstration they would be allowed to say or do
just about anything they wanted to do.
We had "occupy" demonstrators setting up all sorts of displays in our
city park and they stayed there for weeks. Was the government
"establishing" a war on corporations?
There were more people offended by that here than any nativity scene
would ever be.

Actually it's "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably
to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of
grievances."

iBoaterer[_3_] April 23rd 13 06:10 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:55:16 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

If you want to make the constitution the law of
the land, so be it.


===

The constitution *is* the law of the land and the people who wrote it
were a lot smarter than some of today's wannabe interpreters.

I wholeheartedly agree! Therefore, you can't cherry pick which passages
you want upheld because you want them upheld, and deny the ones you want
to deny.

F.O.A.D. April 23rd 13 06:16 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
On 4/23/13 1:09 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:25:00 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 11:51 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:14:58 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 10:40 AM, wrote:


" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed."


You seem to have left off some significant words there, fella.

You don't mind leaving out "Congress shall make no law" when your
local church wants to put a nativity scene in the park.


Local churches can put up whatever they wish on church grounds or other
private property. Government is not allowed to show preference for one
religion over another. Erecting a nativity scene on public property
violates the establishment clause. Unfortunately, the right-wing Supreme
court has allowed some slippage in the recent decade.

You are still left out some significant words

How do you reconcile that with "Congress shall make no law"?

This is not a law, it is only a public entity, a church or religious
group, using public property.
If you called it a demonstration they would be allowed to say or do
just about anything they wanted to do.
We had "occupy" demonstrators setting up all sorts of displays in our
city park and they stayed there for weeks. Was the government
"establishing" a war on corporations?
There were more people offended by that here than any nativity scene
would ever be.

Actually it's "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably
to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of
grievances."


Indeed, I don't even like the use of churches for election polling
places. The public's elections should be conducted in public facilities,
such as schools, firehouses, county, state or federal office buildings,
et cetera.

Trollnabber April 23rd 13 07:07 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:51:53 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 12:45 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:25:00 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 11:51 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:14:58 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/23/13 10:40 AM, wrote:


" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed."


You seem to have left off some significant words there, fella.

You don't mind leaving out "Congress shall make no law" when your
local church wants to put a nativity scene in the park.


Local churches can put up whatever they wish on church grounds or other
private property. Government is not allowed to show preference for one
religion over another. Erecting a nativity scene on public property
violates the establishment clause. Unfortunately, the right-wing Supreme
court has allowed some slippage in the recent decade.

You are still left out some significant words

How do you reconcile that with "Congress shall make no law"?

This is not a law, it is only a public entity, a church or religious
group, using public property.
If you called it a demonstration they would be allowed to say or do
just about anything they wanted to do.
We had "occupy" demonstrators setting up all sorts of displays in our
city park and they stayed there for weeks. Was the government
"establishing" a war on corporations?
There were more people offended by that here than any nativity scene
would ever be.


The words implicitly deny churches use of public property. Government
cannot show preference to one religion over another. That's a clause
closely connected to the "no law" language.

Demonstrations are not the same as displays. Every year, for example, we
get thousands of religious simpies up here protesting Roe v. Wade, and
they camp out on the steps of the Supreme Court and march down the
public's streets and sidewalks. So long as they have a permit, such
behavior is allowed.

Demonstrating against corporate excess is not the same as promoting the
religious crib scenes of a Jewish baby.

F.O.A.D. April 23rd 13 10:44 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
On 4/23/13 5:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:51:53 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

How do you reconcile that with "Congress shall make no law"?

This is not a law, it is only a public entity, a church or religious
group, using public property.
If you called it a demonstration they would be allowed to say or do
just about anything they wanted to do.
We had "occupy" demonstrators setting up all sorts of displays in our
city park and they stayed there for weeks. Was the government
"establishing" a war on corporations?
There were more people offended by that here than any nativity scene
would ever be.


The words implicitly deny churches use of public property. Government
cannot show preference to one religion over another. That's a clause
closely connected to the "no law" language.

If you can extend "Congress" (meaning the US congress) shall make no
federal law" to mean a city council can't allow a display on city
property, I can't understand why "shall not be infringed" is not an
absolute prohibition of any firearm law by any government entity.


Infringe means destroy, shatter, crush. The current set of firearm
regulations do not destroy, shatter or crush the ability to own firearms.



Demonstrations are not the same as displays.

Why not?

Because the people have a Bill of Rights right to peaceably assemble.
There is no Bill of Rights right to set up a religious display on public
property; in fact, the state is not allowed to help promote religion,
and a creche promotes religion.



Every year, for example, we
get thousands of religious simpies up here protesting Roe v. Wade, and
they camp out on the steps of the Supreme Court and march down the
public's streets and sidewalks. So long as they have a permit, such
behavior is allowed.

Isn't the government that grants that permit "establishing" that
religious belief?


No, they are granting a parade permit.




Demonstrating against corporate excess is not the same as promoting the
religious crib scenes of a Jewish baby.

Why not? Both represent deeply held personal beliefs.


Because the religious crib scenes on public property promote religion,
and such is not allowed.

F.O.A.D. April 23rd 13 10:53 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
On 4/23/13 5:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 13:16:21 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


Indeed, I don't even like the use of churches for election polling
places. The public's elections should be conducted in public facilities,
such as schools, firehouses, county, state or federal office buildings,
et cetera.

The problem is there are a lot of places where those facilities are
not available on election days. Our schools are locked down when the
students are there and the general public is not allowed in.
Fire Houses are generally not rated for "assembly" (the fire code) and
office building may not have an accessible area to set up the polls.
Some have security that prevents access for the general public.

They have tried to get away from church property here but the county
simply does not have enough suitable locations to serve all of the
polling places required.
They do choose meeting rooms that are separate from the church itself
if that makes you feel better.
The one they used in Estero had no religious artifacts in it at all
and the entrance was on a different road than the entrance of the
church itself.


Our schools here shut down on election day and the large assembly room
is set up with the voting machines. When I lived in Virginia in the
1970's, we voted at the firehouse.

When I first voted in NE Florida, the polling place was at a baptist
church. The church lined the hallway leading to the assembly room with
photos of aborted fetuses, just for election day. I filed a complaint
with the board of elections. It took two years and a lot of letters and
threats, but the board of elections finally moved the polling place to a
"neutral" location. I am sure I was "damned" from the pulpit.

This was the same baptist church whose minister claimed catholics were
not christians, and who sent out teams of proselytizers every week.

JustWaitAFrekinMinute April 23rd 13 11:02 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
On 4/23/2013 5:29 PM, wrote:


As far as I am concerned, holiday displays celebrate the diversity in
our community and we should accept them all.
That might mean the christians have to tolerate a wiccan display on
halloween tho. Fair is fair.


That's fine... and we won't mock them on Halloween, and they don't mock
us on Christmas. It's not the Christians trying to stop others free
speech, that only seems to go in one direction...

F.O.A.D. April 23rd 13 11:04 PM
Teamsters protect Boston bombing victim's funeral.
 
On 4/23/13 6:02 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/23/2013 5:29 PM, wrote:


As far as I am concerned, holiday displays celebrate the diversity in
our community and we should accept them all.
That might mean the christians have to tolerate a wiccan display on
halloween tho. Fair is fair.


That's fine... and we won't mock them on Halloween, and they don't mock
us on Christmas. It's not the Christians trying to stop others free
speech, that only seems to go in one direction...


Dum**** Snotty has bought into Faux News' imaginary "war on christmas."


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