On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:39:52 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:05:35 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:48:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:39:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:02:08 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

The "medicare underpayments" are still OVER what the actual costs are,
and since medicare CANT negotiate, those costs can't be lower. That
would be a good first fix.

Maybe you are one of those Venus Project people who think we should do
away with money but as long as we have money, you need to pay more
than "cost" just to keep the wheels of commerce turning.
"Cost" for the MRI, still does not pay for keeping the building
running. At a certain point you are cutting the pay and benefits for
the workers who do that.
I agree they over use tests but as long as we have lawyers picking
apart every bad outcome, doctors are going to test everything they
think might insulate them from liability.

So.... You are okay with your insurance being charged $30.00 for a
Tylenol? $25.00 for a blanket which is used and washed to be re-used
over and over and can be bought online for $5.00? You do realize these
VERY excessive costs trickle down to the consumer, right?

I already said, most of that $30 is bureaucratic red tape to avoid
liability.

Just cause you said it doesn't make it a fact. It's bull****. Read the
article.

That blanket is thrown away. I bought one last month and they told me
I could take it home if I wanted.
I agree the prices are inflated. Brill points out several reasons why.

Yet, you just said it was "bureaucratic". So, bull****.

I know you hate it when I actually have knowledge but my first wife
was a hospital administrator.

And, you didn't address the point. I'd like if you had knowledge. It
doesn't appear so much of the time.


I have already said the Charge Master should be a public record so
people will know what the prices are. They should also publish what
the various negotiated or Medicare capped prices are.

And I said it should be outlawed. What the **** is it for? It's a
funny number designed to rip people off.


It is simply the full retail price they can charge and they make that
a ridiculously high number, like that card on a hotel door. Only a
moron actually pays that much

They can charge anything they want. It has no basis in reality. It's a
made up number. Read the article. You've said hotel room door. What
the **** does that have to do with a do or die price?

There is nothing in this boondoggle that a little sunshine would not
help. The main problem is that the customer is usually totally
ignorant of what the price is that they pay. Most people never get
much farther than "This is not a Bill" on that explanation of benefits
statement.

No that's not the main problem. The main problem is that the customer
has little choice when they show up in the emergency room. You're
going to shop around for a cardiologist while you're have a heart
attack????

If we actually had to pay these bills, it would have never got this
bad in the first place.

What the ****? You're proposing that everyone should pay made up
prices??? What "these" bills? You don't give a **** because you have
insurance and **** everyone else. You're part of the problem, as the
article pointed out.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:55:17 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:40:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...


That blanket is thrown away. I bought one last month and they told me
I could take it home if I wanted.
I agree the prices are inflated. Brill points out several reasons why.

No, it's not. Yes, you could take it home, but hospital soft goods are
washed and re-used.



The blanket they charge you for comes in a factory sealed bag and once
the bag is opened, they throw it away. These are typically OR supplies
and with the number of infections they get sued for they are not
taking chances. That was straight from the OR nurse who sold me the
blanket.

The OR nurse did "sell" you the blanket. They don't sell anything
except their expert services to the hospital.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:05:00 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:40:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...


That blanket is thrown away. I bought one last month and they told me
I could take it home if I wanted.
I agree the prices are inflated. Brill points out several reasons why.

No, it's not. Yes, you could take it home, but hospital soft goods are
washed and re-used.



The blanket they charge you for comes in a factory sealed bag and once
the bag is opened, they throw it away. These are typically OR supplies
and with the number of infections they get sued for they are not
taking chances. That was straight from the OR nurse who sold me the
blanket.

Nope. Not true at all. I have direct knowledge in this. But, let's just
say that your untrue statement was true. Do you think it's good prudent
financial advice to pay 100 times or more for something that you could
get elsewhere for 100 times less? If so, I have a LOT of things I'd like
to sell you.

According to him, you should pay the made up price. It's the American
thing to do to keep the Romney's in clover.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:46:35 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:12:58 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:06:29 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:50:56 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:12:20 -0400, wrote:


You forgot the development/approval cost and the lawyer tax. It
probably cost $50 million just to get through FDA testing on the pen
and the first person to get a bad outcome will be suing for another
$50 million.

Bull****. You prefer to blame everyone except the right wingers and
the money that's in the poliitical system from the med lobby.

There is plenty of blame to go around but you can't deny that the FDA
procedures are part of it. That is why drugs and devices usually show
up in Europe years before they are approved here. It is also why
things can be cheaper there.

Tell that to the people who died because of the lack of oversight of
drug mixing pharmacies. What a load of ****. You actually think we
need fewer regulations when it comes to drug safety?

That has nothing to do with drug approval. They were operating outside
the scope of their license and doing it poorly.

It has everything to do with oversight. The FDA commissioner said she
wished she had oversight. They don't. People died.



I can see the ad on TV "Did you use the insulin pen and suffer
anything bad at all? Call Dewey, Chetum and Howe. We have money for
you"

Your solution is to prevent people from being justly compensated. Why
don't you bring up the McDonnalds hot coffee case if you'd like to
look really stupid.

You deny there are ads on TV trolling for customers? Why don't you
accept that the lawyers are a big part of the problem? They are big
business too.

They are PART of the problem, but not the biggest or even close to
biggest. Feel free to **** in the wind complaining about lawyers.

We do almost nothing in this country to actually control medical costs.
If Medicare "under-reimburses," those "lost profits" are assessed
against someone else, either an insurance company or an individual. The
insurance company covers its "losses" by overcharging its clients. In my
wife's field of psychotherapy, psychiatrists charge about $200 per
patient visit, and what do most of them do during that visit, which,
typically, lasts about 15 minutes? They try to find out if the meds they
are prescribing are "helping." They don't provide any therapy; that is
left to various non-medically-degreed mental health professionals. Ever
paid $20 for a Tylenol in a hospital? Or $15 for a package of facial
tissues? It's cost-shifting.

Some of that is simply the red tape required to meet all of the
compliance requirements. ALL drugs in a hospital have inventory
controls you would expect for tracking plutonium. Some of it is simply
to control theft but, again, a lot of it is to mitigate liability
The nurse can't simply go shake a tylenol out of the bottle and give
it to you. They need an order from a doctor, they log it out of the
pharmacy and track it from there to the patient's mouth.
Unfortunately they have similar BS for everything you get and
virtually nothing can be logged back into the system.
The last time I was in the hospital for an outpatient procedure they
issued me a pee bottle. I gave it back to them, still sealed in the
plastic. They said "keep it, we can't give that to another patient
now" It was about $20.

Yeah, a small part of it.

You accepted that $20 pee bottle without complaint right.. because
your insurance was paying not you. That's part of the problem too.
Read the Brill article again.

I did not have a choice. I already bought the bottle when they pulled
it from stock. I didn't even see it until I was leaving and it was in
the bag of crap they sold me.

Tha'ts right. You DIDNT have a choice. That's why the chargemaster
**** has to stop and why the government needs to get involved. It's
not a market driven business when half the market can't make a choice.

If I actually had any control over paying the bill, I would not have
given them a dime for that bottle.

Which is my and Brill's point.

The market doesn't work when the customer is isolated from the payment
process.


The market can't work the way it's set up. There's too much disparity
between the seller of health services and the pootentially dying
person.

Chargemaster is just the price list at full retail. They could change
the name if it would make you feel better but the concept will still
be there. It is like that price on the back of a hotel door.

NO IT ISNT. There's no such thing as "full retail". It's a MADE UP
****ING NUMBER THAT HAS NO BASIS IN REALITY. That was in Brill's
article for **** sake.

Can you write a sentence without saying ****. You act like you just
learned the word. What a child.

**** no. Can you write a sentence that makes ****ing sense? What a
hypocrit. - sentence without ****. Are you some namby pamby that is
afraid of sailor speak? - another one without **** in it.

Of course there is full retail. That is the highest price someone can
charge for an item that is deeply discounted most of the time.
I guess you pay sticker price for your cars too.

There's a full retail price that's made up and nobody pays except
maybe the foreign rich and certainly the poor or without adequate
insurance. That's not the "highest price someone can pay."

I guess you don't remember Saturns. No negotiation, but the prices
were reasonable.

On 3/14/2013 11:39 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:05:35 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:48:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:39:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:02:08 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

The "medicare underpayments" are still OVER what the actual costs are,
and since medicare CANT negotiate, those costs can't be lower. That
would be a good first fix.

Maybe you are one of those Venus Project people who think we should do
away with money but as long as we have money, you need to pay more
than "cost" just to keep the wheels of commerce turning.
"Cost" for the MRI, still does not pay for keeping the building
running. At a certain point you are cutting the pay and benefits for
the workers who do that.
I agree they over use tests but as long as we have lawyers picking
apart every bad outcome, doctors are going to test everything they
think might insulate them from liability.

So.... You are okay with your insurance being charged $30.00 for a
Tylenol? $25.00 for a blanket which is used and washed to be re-used
over and over and can be bought online for $5.00? You do realize these
VERY excessive costs trickle down to the consumer, right?

I already said, most of that $30 is bureaucratic red tape to avoid
liability.

Just cause you said it doesn't make it a fact. It's bull****. Read the
article.

That blanket is thrown away. I bought one last month and they told me
I could take it home if I wanted.
I agree the prices are inflated. Brill points out several reasons why.

Yet, you just said it was "bureaucratic". So, bull****.

I know you hate it when I actually have knowledge but my first wife
was a hospital administrator.


I have already said the Charge Master should be a public record so
people will know what the prices are. They should also publish what
the various negotiated or Medicare capped prices are.

And I said it should be outlawed. What the **** is it for? It's a
funny number designed to rip people off.


It is simply the full retail price they can charge and they make that
a ridiculously high number, like that card on a hotel door. Only a
moron actually pays that much

There is nothing in this boondoggle that a little sunshine would not
help. The main problem is that the customer is usually totally
ignorant of what the price is that they pay. Most people never get
much farther than "This is not a Bill" on that explanation of benefits
statement.

No that's not the main problem. The main problem is that the customer
has little choice when they show up in the emergency room. You're
going to shop around for a cardiologist while you're have a heart
attack????

If we actually had to pay these bills, it would have never got this
bad in the first place.


The published price and the insurer cost are quite different. If you buy
goods and services through the hospital they are usually several
multiples of insurer cost.

There are outfits that will arbitrate on your behalf to settle your
hospital bill.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:05:00 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:40:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...


That blanket is thrown away. I bought one last month and they told me
I could take it home if I wanted.
I agree the prices are inflated. Brill points out several reasons why.

No, it's not. Yes, you could take it home, but hospital soft goods are
washed and re-used.



The blanket they charge you for comes in a factory sealed bag and once
the bag is opened, they throw it away. These are typically OR supplies
and with the number of infections they get sued for they are not
taking chances. That was straight from the OR nurse who sold me the
blanket.

Nope. Not true at all. I have direct knowledge in this. But, let's just
say that your untrue statement was true. Do you think it's good prudent
financial advice to pay 100 times or more for something that you could
get elsewhere for 100 times less? If so, I have a LOT of things I'd like
to sell you.

If they are selling you a blanket from the linen supply company, you
have something going on that doesn't happen here.
The one they sold me was a one time use blanket that came sealed in a
factory bag. That was the only kind they had in the OR or OR prep and
recovery rooms.
Virtually everything there is one time use and thrown away if the
package is opened.
It all goes in a medical waste container.

This is driven by concerns about Staph, MRSA and this new bacterial
infection that antibiotics will not treat. The smell of hand
sanitizer hung heavy in the air and there was a dispenser about every
20 feet everywhere you went.

Anything laundered in a hospital is not just washed with cold water and
Tide. Everything is washed in a sterile process. This includes bedding,
gowns, scrubs, etc. Virtually everything is NOT one time use. And again,
if something IS one time use, you don't have a problem with paying 100
times or more than what it's worth?

In article om,
says...

On 3/14/2013 11:39 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:05:35 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:48:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:39:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:02:08 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

The "medicare underpayments" are still OVER what the actual costs are,
and since medicare CANT negotiate, those costs can't be lower. That
would be a good first fix.

Maybe you are one of those Venus Project people who think we should do
away with money but as long as we have money, you need to pay more
than "cost" just to keep the wheels of commerce turning.
"Cost" for the MRI, still does not pay for keeping the building
running. At a certain point you are cutting the pay and benefits for
the workers who do that.
I agree they over use tests but as long as we have lawyers picking
apart every bad outcome, doctors are going to test everything they
think might insulate them from liability.

So.... You are okay with your insurance being charged $30.00 for a
Tylenol? $25.00 for a blanket which is used and washed to be re-used
over and over and can be bought online for $5.00? You do realize these
VERY excessive costs trickle down to the consumer, right?

I already said, most of that $30 is bureaucratic red tape to avoid
liability.

Just cause you said it doesn't make it a fact. It's bull****. Read the
article.

That blanket is thrown away. I bought one last month and they told me
I could take it home if I wanted.
I agree the prices are inflated. Brill points out several reasons why.

Yet, you just said it was "bureaucratic". So, bull****.

I know you hate it when I actually have knowledge but my first wife
was a hospital administrator.


I have already said the Charge Master should be a public record so
people will know what the prices are. They should also publish what
the various negotiated or Medicare capped prices are.

And I said it should be outlawed. What the **** is it for? It's a
funny number designed to rip people off.


It is simply the full retail price they can charge and they make that
a ridiculously high number, like that card on a hotel door. Only a
moron actually pays that much

There is nothing in this boondoggle that a little sunshine would not
help. The main problem is that the customer is usually totally
ignorant of what the price is that they pay. Most people never get
much farther than "This is not a Bill" on that explanation of benefits
statement.

No that's not the main problem. The main problem is that the customer
has little choice when they show up in the emergency room. You're
going to shop around for a cardiologist while you're have a heart
attack????

If we actually had to pay these bills, it would have never got this
bad in the first place.


The published price and the insurer cost are quite different. If you buy
goods and services through the hospital they are usually several
multiples of insurer cost.

There are outfits that will arbitrate on your behalf to settle your
hospital bill.

The prices in the Time article were just what they were, the cost of
doing business with the hospital.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:08:25 -0400, Meyer wrote:

On 3/14/2013 11:39 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:05:35 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:48:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:39:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:02:08 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

The "medicare underpayments" are still OVER what the actual costs are,
and since medicare CANT negotiate, those costs can't be lower. That
would be a good first fix.

Maybe you are one of those Venus Project people who think we should do
away with money but as long as we have money, you need to pay more
than "cost" just to keep the wheels of commerce turning.
"Cost" for the MRI, still does not pay for keeping the building
running. At a certain point you are cutting the pay and benefits for
the workers who do that.
I agree they over use tests but as long as we have lawyers picking
apart every bad outcome, doctors are going to test everything they
think might insulate them from liability.

So.... You are okay with your insurance being charged $30.00 for a
Tylenol? $25.00 for a blanket which is used and washed to be re-used
over and over and can be bought online for $5.00? You do realize these
VERY excessive costs trickle down to the consumer, right?

I already said, most of that $30 is bureaucratic red tape to avoid
liability.

Just cause you said it doesn't make it a fact. It's bull****. Read the
article.

That blanket is thrown away. I bought one last month and they told me
I could take it home if I wanted.
I agree the prices are inflated. Brill points out several reasons why.

Yet, you just said it was "bureaucratic". So, bull****.

I know you hate it when I actually have knowledge but my first wife
was a hospital administrator.


I have already said the Charge Master should be a public record so
people will know what the prices are. They should also publish what
the various negotiated or Medicare capped prices are.

And I said it should be outlawed. What the **** is it for? It's a
funny number designed to rip people off.


It is simply the full retail price they can charge and they make that
a ridiculously high number, like that card on a hotel door. Only a
moron actually pays that much

There is nothing in this boondoggle that a little sunshine would not
help. The main problem is that the customer is usually totally
ignorant of what the price is that they pay. Most people never get
much farther than "This is not a Bill" on that explanation of benefits
statement.

No that's not the main problem. The main problem is that the customer
has little choice when they show up in the emergency room. You're
going to shop around for a cardiologist while you're have a heart
attack????

If we actually had to pay these bills, it would have never got this
bad in the first place.


The published price and the insurer cost are quite different. If you buy
goods and services through the hospital they are usually several
multiples of insurer cost.

There are outfits that will arbitrate on your behalf to settle your
hospital bill.

They don't "settle" your bill, except that they can usually negotiate
on your behalf to get some sort of discount on the made up price of
chargemaster. You're still getting ripped off big time.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:58:23 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:05:00 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:40:55 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...


That blanket is thrown away. I bought one last month and they told me
I could take it home if I wanted.
I agree the prices are inflated. Brill points out several reasons why.

No, it's not. Yes, you could take it home, but hospital soft goods are
washed and re-used.



The blanket they charge you for comes in a factory sealed bag and once
the bag is opened, they throw it away. These are typically OR supplies
and with the number of infections they get sued for they are not
taking chances. That was straight from the OR nurse who sold me the
blanket.

Nope. Not true at all. I have direct knowledge in this. But, let's just
say that your untrue statement was true. Do you think it's good prudent
financial advice to pay 100 times or more for something that you could
get elsewhere for 100 times less? If so, I have a LOT of things I'd like
to sell you.

If they are selling you a blanket from the linen supply company, you
have something going on that doesn't happen here.
The one they sold me was a one time use blanket that came sealed in a
factory bag. That was the only kind they had in the OR or OR prep and
recovery rooms.
Virtually everything there is one time use and thrown away if the
package is opened.
It all goes in a medical waste container.

This is driven by concerns about Staph, MRSA and this new bacterial
infection that antibiotics will not treat. The smell of hand
sanitizer hung heavy in the air and there was a dispenser about every
20 feet everywhere you went.

Anything laundered in a hospital is not just washed with cold water and
Tide. Everything is washed in a sterile process. This includes bedding,
gowns, scrubs, etc. Virtually everything is NOT one time use. And again,
if something IS one time use, you don't have a problem with paying 100
times or more than what it's worth?

That's right. Almost everything is reused if at all possible.

On 3/13/2013 6:10 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:14:22 -0500, amdx wrote:

On 3/11/2013 9:02 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:07:39 -0500, amdx
wrote:

On 3/11/2013 7:51 PM, jps wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:59:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 12:10:12 -0700, jps wrote:

Military and health care costs have spiraled out of control because no
one wants to appear anti-defense or take on the huge $ in pharma,
non-profit (cough, cough) hospitals, nor face the wrath of their
campaign finance coffers.

Medicine spends about 4 times as much lobby money into our politicians
as the military industrial complex.

That says where the $ is, doesn't it. Is there no end to Americans
being shaken down for the enrichment of the wealthy?


Is there no end to hard working taxpayers being shaken down for the
enrichment of those who would rather while away the time until the first
of the month to come around so they can get their benefits.

Mikek

Sure. That's the heart of the problem. Not the billions spent by the
big corporations trying to get every last dime out of some guy who can
barely feed his family. You're really either stupid or a ****.

I think corporations are at least as smart as Willie Sutton. They are
more likely to target those with money.

They're in a commodity business... 4 billion hamburgs sold. You think
McD's is tarketing Ronmey lookalikes? If so, you're pretty ****ing
stupid.

I don't get people living in the land of plenty and having such a
problem surviving let alone thriving. I've seen immigrants arrive here
not speaking the language and have assets over a million dollars in
twenty years.

Yeah, you don't get it. Most immigrants end up picking veggies in the
fields for less than minimum wage, with no health insurance, and have
to hide in the shadows. Or, they work in a meat packing family until
either they're hurt of can't stand it any more. The immigrants that
you're talking about typically have some sort of support network when
they arrive, like Indians.

North Korea doesn't have those evil corporations, need a plane ticket?
Mikek

I think I'd be happy to chip in on one for you.

PS.
The grim suggestion that North Koreans are turning to cannibalism were
reported by the Asia Press, and published in the Sunday Times.

They claim a 'hidden famine' in the farming provinces of North and South
Hwanghae has killed 10,000 people, and there are fears that cannibalism
is spreading throughout the country.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-8468781.html


So? What the **** does that have to do with medical costs? You ****ing
slimeball.

Capitalism and our Constitution built one of the highest standards of
living. North Korea's one party socialism one of lowest.
You lose when I make you mad. Or are you smiling when you write,
"****ing slimeball". :-)
Mikek