yeah, sure. 21,000 pounds is only 20,000 pounds, and 850 square feet is only
663 square feet, and 18 to 20 knots is a "lite" wind.

I would buy a W32 in a micro second ---- IF ---- they were priced right
according to intinsic value, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut they ain't.

****LOTS**** of well-valued boats out there at prices well less than that of
W32's.

Not that a W32 is a bad boat -- it isn't -- it is just that there are better
values for the buck spent.

Today, the W32 is a safety decision for the marginally informed. *If* you are
willing to spend an extra ten or twenty or thirty or forty grand for a 4 knot
boat the W32 will do ya well.

btw,

If you haven't sailed a W32, you can descibe its sailing characteristics
only with mathematics or hearsay, right?

no, for **I** can descrivbe "its sailing charactistitics" on seeing W32's
sailing alone side my boat and other boats. I stand by my claim that the W32
is a 21,000 pound boat in a 12,000 pound world.

Jax, look:
If you haven't sailed a W32, you can descibe its sailing characteristics
only with mathematics or hearsay, right? I'm not saying they're fast
boats--they're designed for seaworthiness above all else. (Some boats
designed for speed above all else break up and sink, like some 12-meters,
eh?) But the Westsail does NOT need a huge sail area to sail very nicely in
light air: all I can say is try it for yourself. My boat moves along quite
well--actually surprisingly well--in very light wind with only the working
sails, and I don't have to haul them in quickly when the wind pipes up. As
you can imagine, and I hope you'll agree, with 3-1/2 tons of lead in the
full keel, the W32 stands up to her sails extremely well. Typically I put
the first tuck in the main at 18-20 knots, the second at 25+, furl the
Yankee at 35 and then boom along in great comfort with the double-reefed
main and stays'l at about 7 knots, close to hull speed. (No, they are NOT
fast boats.) Try it; you'll like it.

I think you're overlooking something in your physics analysis, though I'm
not nearly good enough at science to explain it in technical terms. My
boat--ANY boat in the water--will move downwind in ANY wind. The slightest
force will do the trick. I watched one time a couple of guys push a 150'
barge with a crane on it away from a dock BY HAND. Any boat will respond to
the slightest force by moving through the water away from the force. So
let's assume a slight zephyr. Let's raise the sails. Even in a
W32.....away we go. I've done it dozens of times.

A few technical corrections for the W32: LWL = 27'6", not 26'; beam is 11',
not 11.5; displacement is 20,000 lbs., not 21,000; and working sail area is
663 square feet, not 830. And the reason Westsails are so expensive is
because every single buyer of one thinks they're worth it.

Fair winds and blue skies, mate. It's been fun jousting.

Dick



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Dick, sailboats work like this:

Mr. Ashby:

I didn't call your experience into question, but this statement

"The boats needed a LOT of sail to make them move in light winds, sail
that
had to be struck very quickly as
the winds piped up."

is nonsense, as you would know if you'd sailed a W32.

A 21,000 pound boat with a 26 foot waterline and a 11-1/2 beam needs -- as
in
requires -- a LOT of sail to move in lite winds.

That is the nature -- the physics -- of sailing. 21,000 pounds of water
displacement every boatlength moved, and displaced up to nearly 6 six
horizontally each length, and make that horizontal movement in less than
13
feet each boatlength makes for one hell of a lot of power needed, i.e. a
LOT of
sail in lite air.

Of course, if one defines a *tiny scrap of sail* to be **only** a 200
square
foot main sail AND **only** a 450 square foot genoa AND **only** a 180
square
foot staysail ... AND ***lite*** winds to be 12+ knots, then sure the boat
moves in lite winds.

I'll say it again: A 21,000 pound boat with a 26 foot waterline and a
11-1/2
foot beam *requires* the sails of a 21,000 pound boat with short waterline
and
broad beam.

btw, the typo below should have read 50% over intrisic value, not of
intrinsic
value.

Would I buy a W32? At a reasonable for what you get price, sure, as long
as I
understood the limitations of the 21,000 pound boat in a 12,000 pound
world.

Inertia matters for sailing performance. The W32 is a heavy
displacement cruiser,

inertia is what slows the motion of a W32 in a rough seaway. that is probably
the biggest real advantage of a W32.

On the other hand, the extra 8,000 pounds displacement (about 4 cubic yards of
water) of a W32 as compared to other boats of its size **must** be moved out of
the way -- and must be moved up to 1/2 half the beam of the boat, or about 6
feet -- each and every boat length (about 26 feet, 27 feet, or even 28 feet
when overloaded and down on its waterline) the boat moves forward.

Move a 21,000 pound W32 forward just one mile and you have moved sideways more
than a thousand cubic yards of water (weighing more than 2,000,000 pounds) more
than a 12,000 pound boat, and you have moved it sideways up to a total of six
feet.

That is one hell of a lot of effort, and -- in lite winds -- it takes one hell
of a lot more sail.

Inertia makes for a smoother motion in a seaway, and inertia makes for the need
of larger sails in lite winds.

(JAXAshby) lifted the trapdoor, peered around and
wrote:

Inertia makes for a smoother motion in a seaway, and inertia makes for the need
of larger sails in lite winds.

it's a bit more complex than that....or else supertankers would stop
in the same distance as a yacht.

What a Westsail won't do, is accelerate, decelerate and turn as
quickly as lighter boats...probably won't point as high as most
either..but absolute mass is not the major component of hull-speed...

steveb