On Oct 8, 7:47*pm, jps wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 16:11:03 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:









On Oct 8, 3:55 pm, jps wrote:
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:15:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 7, 1:08 pm, jps wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 15:58:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 6, 4:55 pm, jps wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 14:24:13 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 6, 1:07 pm, jps wrote:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 11:54:57 -0400, GuzzisRule

wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 10:23:51 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote:

And if so which is better?

I'm hoping for a 300-post thread here. Don't let me down.

When I bought my Key West, the dealer and I agreed on the price. Then he asked how I wanted to
finance it, offering me a choice of three banks/loan organizations he worked with. I told him I
wanted to put it on my VISA. He gave me a funny look, like, "Are you bull****ting me?" Then he said
he had to make a phone call. He came back and said I could put only $10,000 on VISA at one time -
rules of his accounting firm (?). OK, so I said I'd put up $10,000 as a down payment, and then pay
off the boat when it came in. He said that would work. Then, when the boat came in, I put another
$10,000 on my VISA. Because of the rewards program, I got 3% of the $20,000 back. The dealer wasn't
thrilled. I pulled a similar deal when I bought my 5th wheel trailer.

The credit, for the month or so of each charge, was free!

Yes, you got your points and the dealer took it in the shorts because
it cost 'em another 3% to run your card.

Don't think that'll end up driving up prices? Think again. But I
know that all you're concerned about it you.

If they didn't want to do it, then they wouldn't have agreed to the
deal on those terms.. Sure they took a hit but they sold the boat.
BTW, the dealer also has to pay for the CC processing machine, AND a
monthly user fee. But people who start accepting CC's, usually have
quite an increase in business.

Oh, and I'm sure you have one, or maybe even several cards. And
obviously being the successful business owner that you are, you use
them quite regularly, and I bet they have more an a $2000.00 limit on
them.

Not only do I have two affinity cards, I have a card reader at my
business for large companies that whose employees want to purchase
incidental gear and services on a company issued card. One of my
customers recently put nearly $20K on a personal Visa and I passed
along the fee. They may have gotten the miles but they also paid
nearly $400 for the priviledge of using the card. I'm not a retail
business, so having the card reader is just a convenience for a few
customers a year. Doesn't do anything to increase my business.

I try not to make gigantic purchases through the card because I know
what that does to my vendor's margin and, eventually, it'll be passed
along in the form of higher prices.

"Yes, you got your points and the dealer took it in the shorts because
it cost 'em another 3% to run your card.

Don't think that'll end up driving up prices? Think again. But I
know that all you're concerned about it you. "

Well, you sure showed me. You don't get the difference between a $100
purchase and a $20,000 purchase.

Let me explain. A hundred dollar purchase through a retail concern
who is marks up items at 50% isn't the same as a boat or car dealer
who makes a much smaller percentage on each sale. 3% can make a huge
difference on a 6% margin.

Make any sense?

Makes perfect sense. And I'd say you probably make some fairly large
purchases. More than a mere hundred bucks per throw. So, why be so
hypocritical about it?

I don't make large purchases on credit cards.

So, how large is large, or how small is small?

You still make the merchant pay a 3% hit, and then you drive up
pricing for cash paying customers, according to your muse. So... why
are you being so hypocritical?

I knew nuance wasn't your thing but, because you're a compassionate
Christian, I'll give it one more go.

Large ticket items (10K and above) are more likely to be sold at a
very small margin. *I would rather negotiate the best deal on a boat,
car and then pay cash or finance it on my own.

Small purchases through retailers are more likely priced at 50% to
100% markup, so a credit card fee isn't going to make a big
difference.

Does that make any sense or are you just playing dense so you can be
disagreeable?

I know you are an extremely busy entrepreneur and perhaps you
overlooked in stead of evading the question, so I'll give you the
benefit of the doubt and ask again.

"You still make the merchant pay a 3% hit, and then you drive up
pricing for cash paying customers, according to your muse. So... why
are you being so hypocritical?"

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article m,
says...

On 10/7/2012 2:49 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article m,
says...

On 10/7/2012 11:41 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article m,
says...

On 10/7/2012 8:21 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 14:58:11 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 15:24:33 -0400, GuzzisRule
wrote:

On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 14:04:02 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 10:23:51 -0400, EmpacherFan
wrote:

And if so which is better?

I'm hoping for a 300-post thread here. Don't let me
down.

When I bought my Key West, the dealer and I agreed on the
price. Then he asked how I wanted to finance it, offering
me a choice of three banks/loan organizations he worked
with. I told him I wanted to put it on my VISA. He gave me
a funny look, like, "Are you bull****ting me?" Then he
said he had to make a phone call. He came back and said I
could put only $10,000 on VISA at one time - rules of his
accounting firm (?). OK, so I said I'd put up $10,000 as a
down payment, and then pay off the boat when it came in. He
said that would work. Then, when the boat came in, I put
another $10,000 on my VISA. Because of the rewards program,
I got 3% of the $20,000 back. The dealer wasn't thrilled. I
pulled a similar deal when I bought my 5th wheel trailer.

The credit, for the month or so of each charge, was free!

Yeah, sure, credit is free. Dumbass, you still don't get it
and never will, apparently.

It wasn't free to my bank! They paid me good bucks for using
the credit they extended!

You bank will just find a way to 1000 other people with
exhorbitant fees for overdrawn checks or teller visits or debit
card purchases. No matter, you got what you wanted, screw
everyone else.

Bleeding heart liberal?

Would you be happier if I sent my bank a couple hundred dollars
each month just to hold down the costs for folks like you and
Kevin?

You're a joke.

Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a
conversion kit:

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx

Good idea, huh?

Let's see, you are completely against any idea of wealth
redistribution, but if your credit card fees are redistributed to
everyone who buys goods at a particular store that you use your
credit card in, that's okay, right?

Not quite. The enire fee is paid by he merchant to the CC bank when
the
CC transaction occurs. The injustice occurs when he CC bank forces
the
merchant to price fix and penalize the cash buyer.

If you think it goes down any other way, I invite you to prove it or
clam up about this whole thing.

My God, you are John are as dumb as posts if you can't figure out that
the expense incurred by the merchant is passed down to you, the
consumer.

Not only did I figure it out, I told you why it happens. Take a
cognition pill, won't you?

But you turned around and said that the credit was free!!! And that's
pure horse****. If the merchant charges the consumer to recoup the fees,
how is that free?

Credit is free to those that qualify but the fee obviously is not. You
really need to take that pill.

If you pay a fee, how is that free?


------

That fee is there whether we use a Credit Card or not. So the use of OUR CC
does not add any cost to us. Since no cost is added, the use of a CC to me
is free. Actually since some of us have rewards cards, the cost is
negative.

Yes, it DOES add cost! That is the point you fail to get! The fee that
is charged the merchant is directly added to the consumer's price paid
for the product. If the merchant didn't have that expense, the price of
goods purchased from said merchant would be that amount cheaper.

On 10/9/2012 8:54 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
Yes, it DOES add cost! That is the point you fail to get! The fee that
is charged the merchant is directly added to the consumer's price paid
for the product. If the merchant didn't have that expense, the price of
goods purchased from said merchant would be that amount cheaper.

We get your point. Merchant wins. Credit card banks win. Consumer loses.

Most of us don't pay the vig, however. That would add insult to injury.

Why pay cash when you are already being charged to use a CC?

Why use a CC when you know you can't afford to pay for what you buy?

Why run up CC charges with the intention of stiffing the CC company?
That's dishonest, cheating and stealing? It's Harryesque, if you will.

In article om,
says...

On 10/9/2012 8:54 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
Yes, it DOES add cost! That is the point you fail to get! The fee that
is charged the merchant is directly added to the consumer's price paid
for the product. If the merchant didn't have that expense, the price of
goods purchased from said merchant would be that amount cheaper.

We get your point. Merchant wins. Credit card banks win. Consumer loses.

Most of us don't pay the vig, however. That would add insult to injury.

Why pay cash when you are already being charged to use a CC?

Why not pay cash?

Why use a CC when you know you can't afford to pay for what you buy?

I don't.

Why run up CC charges with the intention of stiffing the CC company?
That's dishonest, cheating and stealing? It's Harryesque, if you will.

I don't.

On 10/9/2012 12:07 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
Why pay cash when you are already being charged to use a CC?
Why not pay cash?

I just told you, Dummy. Can't you read?

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 18:20:30 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 8, 7:47*pm, jps wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 16:11:03 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:









On Oct 8, 3:55 pm, jps wrote:
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:15:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 7, 1:08 pm, jps wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 15:58:48 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 6, 4:55 pm, jps wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 14:24:13 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 6, 1:07 pm, jps wrote:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 11:54:57 -0400, GuzzisRule

wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 10:23:51 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote:

And if so which is better?

I'm hoping for a 300-post thread here. Don't let me down.

When I bought my Key West, the dealer and I agreed on the price. Then he asked how I wanted to
finance it, offering me a choice of three banks/loan organizations he worked with. I told him I
wanted to put it on my VISA. He gave me a funny look, like, "Are you bull****ting me?" Then he said
he had to make a phone call. He came back and said I could put only $10,000 on VISA at one time -
rules of his accounting firm (?). OK, so I said I'd put up $10,000 as a down payment, and then pay
off the boat when it came in. He said that would work. Then, when the boat came in, I put another
$10,000 on my VISA. Because of the rewards program, I got 3% of the $20,000 back. The dealer wasn't
thrilled. I pulled a similar deal when I bought my 5th wheel trailer.

The credit, for the month or so of each charge, was free!

Yes, you got your points and the dealer took it in the shorts because
it cost 'em another 3% to run your card.

Don't think that'll end up driving up prices? Think again. But I
know that all you're concerned about it you.

If they didn't want to do it, then they wouldn't have agreed to the
deal on those terms.. Sure they took a hit but they sold the boat.
BTW, the dealer also has to pay for the CC processing machine, AND a
monthly user fee. But people who start accepting CC's, usually have
quite an increase in business.

Oh, and I'm sure you have one, or maybe even several cards. And
obviously being the successful business owner that you are, you use
them quite regularly, and I bet they have more an a $2000.00 limit on
them.

Not only do I have two affinity cards, I have a card reader at my
business for large companies that whose employees want to purchase
incidental gear and services on a company issued card. One of my
customers recently put nearly $20K on a personal Visa and I passed
along the fee. They may have gotten the miles but they also paid
nearly $400 for the priviledge of using the card. I'm not a retail
business, so having the card reader is just a convenience for a few
customers a year. Doesn't do anything to increase my business.

I try not to make gigantic purchases through the card because I know
what that does to my vendor's margin and, eventually, it'll be passed
along in the form of higher prices.

"Yes, you got your points and the dealer took it in the shorts because
it cost 'em another 3% to run your card.

Don't think that'll end up driving up prices? Think again. But I
know that all you're concerned about it you. "

Well, you sure showed me. You don't get the difference between a $100
purchase and a $20,000 purchase.

Let me explain. A hundred dollar purchase through a retail concern
who is marks up items at 50% isn't the same as a boat or car dealer
who makes a much smaller percentage on each sale. 3% can make a huge
difference on a 6% margin.

Make any sense?

Makes perfect sense. And I'd say you probably make some fairly large
purchases. More than a mere hundred bucks per throw. So, why be so
hypocritical about it?

I don't make large purchases on credit cards.

So, how large is large, or how small is small?

You still make the merchant pay a 3% hit, and then you drive up
pricing for cash paying customers, according to your muse. So... why
are you being so hypocritical?

I knew nuance wasn't your thing but, because you're a compassionate
Christian, I'll give it one more go.

Large ticket items (10K and above) are more likely to be sold at a
very small margin. *I would rather negotiate the best deal on a boat,
car and then pay cash or finance it on my own.

Small purchases through retailers are more likely priced at 50% to
100% markup, so a credit card fee isn't going to make a big
difference.

Does that make any sense or are you just playing dense so you can be
disagreeable?

I know you are an extremely busy entrepreneur and perhaps you
overlooked in stead of evading the question, so I'll give you the
benefit of the doubt and ask again.

"You still make the merchant pay a 3% hit, and then you drive up
pricing for cash paying customers, according to your muse. So... why
are you being so hypocritical?"

I see you're committed to being a jerk even though I've explained
myself. Have a nice day.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 12:07:39 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article om,
says...

On 10/9/2012 8:54 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
Yes, it DOES add cost! That is the point you fail to get! The fee that
is charged the merchant is directly added to the consumer's price paid
for the product. If the merchant didn't have that expense, the price of
goods purchased from said merchant would be that amount cheaper.

We get your point. Merchant wins. Credit card banks win. Consumer loses.

Most of us don't pay the vig, however. That would add insult to injury.

Why pay cash when you are already being charged to use a CC?

Why not pay cash?

What a stupid question! No one gives a rebate for paying cash, and the interest on the money is
lost.

Pay with a CC. Earn the 5%, 3%. or 1% (depending on the purchase) rebate, and collect the interest
on the money for almost two months before the CC payment is due.

Damn, where've you been, Kevin??

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 12:07:39 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article om,
says...

On 10/9/2012 8:54 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
Yes, it DOES add cost! That is the point you fail to get! The fee that
is charged the merchant is directly added to the consumer's price paid
for the product. If the merchant didn't have that expense, the price of
goods purchased from said merchant would be that amount cheaper.

We get your point. Merchant wins. Credit card banks win. Consumer loses.

Most of us don't pay the vig, however. That would add insult to injury.

Why pay cash when you are already being charged to use a CC?

Why not pay cash?

What a stupid question! No one gives a rebate for paying cash, and the interest on the money is
lost.

Pay with a CC. Earn the 5%, 3%. or 1% (depending on the purchase) rebate, and collect the interest
on the money for almost two months before the CC payment is due.

Damn, where've you been, Kevin??

Really? I just went to Best Buy and bought a new tablet for my niece. I
paid cash and got a rebate. I'm not Kevin but I've been in reality. It's
stupid to think that you're not paying for using a credit card. As I've
said, my neighbor sold and serviced point of sale credit card accounts
to merchants. He actually laughed when I told him that you and a few
here think that credit cards are free!

In article om,
says...

On 10/8/2012 9:40 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 09:25:51 -0400, Meyer wrote:

On 10/8/2012 8:28 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 06:14:29 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"GuzzisRule" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:45:17 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:35:27 -0400, GuzzisRule
wrote:

Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion
kit:

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx

Good idea, huh?

===

It depends on what you are looking for: Carry gun; home defense or
target practice/competition.

You really need to think that through because no one gun is ideal for
more than one category.

The P226 is. Small enough to carry, sizeable enough for home defense,
and with the .22 conversion
kit, cheap enough for target practice. The big question would be which
conversion kit to buy.

"...SIG SAUER X-CHANGE Kit? is the perfect accessory for your SIG
SAUER Classic .22 rimfire pistols.
Now shooters can add SIG SAUER centerfire performance with just the
change out of the slide
assembly, barrel, recoil system, and magazine to any of the standard
production pistol calibers;
9mm, .40 S&W, and .357SIG. Exchanging components does not alter the
reliability or accuracy of
either assembly."

-----------------------------------------------

After many years of thinking about it, I recently completed the
required safety course, necessary applications and am awaiting
issuance of a MA LTC "A" permit. While I wait, I am researching
potential pistols and/or revolvers. I want to buy new, so I am
limited to MA Compliant versions. I'd like to have a .22 ... mainly
for inexpensive target practice but I'd also like a 9mm or .40 cal as
well.

I looked at the Sig Sauer P226. The standard version *is* MA
compliant and is available in 9mm, .357 Sig and .40 S&W calibers, but
no .22 cal.
The one with the .22 conversion kit that you provided a link to is
nice, but for some reason is *not* MA compliant. Don't understand
why not.

Good question. Worthy of a call to Sig Sauer. I wonder if buying a .40 caliber, which is MA
compliant (whatever that is), and then buying the .22 conversion kit would solve the problem.

http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/22-...n-kit-266.aspx


I wonder if you guys have looked at the demure Kahr PM9 or even Ruger's LC9.

Both smaller than what I'm looking for. Plus, I'd have to buy two of them to get the advantage of
the Sig Sauer.

Having a carry gun and a target 22 isn't necessarily a bad thing. Throw
in a shotgun to round things out.


Using the same frame and trigger has its advantages when practicing and
using for real.

jps wrote:

[snip]

You bank will just find a way to 1000 other people with exhorbitant
fees for overdrawn checks or teller visits or debit card purchases. No
matter, you got what you wanted, screw everyone else.

Not his problem. Don't like it? Don't run a balance on your card.

Don't want a balance? Stop paying for Starbucks with plastic.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Most people want either less corruption or more of a chance to
participate in it.