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In article ,
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:18:08 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:45:30 -0400, BAR wrote:

What advances in batteries have we made in the last 100 years?

You put energy in and you take energy out.

====

That's what batteries do of course - store energy for use at a later
time. How do you propose to advance that?

Energy stored per pound has advanced a lot. If you don't believe
that, take a look at the latest generation of cordless tools or laptop
computers.

Being able to store energy at a reasonable cost and weight is key to
making electric vehicles practical. Although the Volt is not yet the
ideal electric car, it is a step forward. Internal combustion
engines started off slowly also. Take a look at the automotive
engines of 100 years ago vs what we have today.

The Tesla is quite the technological car though!

===

The Tesla is a fine example of what you can do if cost is no object.
Since they are in a high end specialty market there is not a lot of
pressure to lower the cost but it's nice to see an example of what is
doable.

But again, as the technology surfaces, cost goes down.

You would have thought that withe 100 years of effort you wouldn't run
into the bricking problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/au...tery-Failures-
Make-Bricking-a-Buzzword.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-ent...1-107k-fisker-
karma-bricks-during-testing

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:45:30 -0400, BAR wrote:

What advances in batteries have we made in the last 100 years?

You put energy in and you take energy out.

====

That's what batteries do of course - store energy for use at a later
time. How do you propose to advance that?

The cells my wife works on are 1.5 volts and they cost $10,000 per cell.
There may be 40 cells in a pack.

Energy stored per pound has advanced a lot. If you don't believe
that, take a look at the latest generation of cordless tools or laptop
computers.

The energy we get out of a gallon of gasoline has improved over time
too.


Being able to store energy at a reasonable cost and weight is key to
making electric vehicles practical. Although the Volt is not yet the
ideal electric car, it is a step forward. Internal combustion
engines started off slowly also. Take a look at the automotive
engines of 100 years ago vs what we have today.

The problem is that the internal combustion engines are more
environmentally friendly that EV's or Hybrids.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:54:12 -0400, BAR wrote:

The Tesla is quite the technological car though!

It has a battery and electric motors.


===

Bert, I think I remember hearing you say that you played golf? If so
perhaps you should avoid using one of those horrible electric golf
carts. You never know when the batteries will discharge themselves,
catch fire, explode, "brick" or whatever. Be safe, walk the course.

:-)

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:54:12 -0400, BAR wrote:

The Tesla is quite the technological car though!

It has a battery and electric motors.


===

Bert, I think I remember hearing you say that you played golf? If so
perhaps you should avoid using one of those horrible electric golf
carts. You never know when the batteries will discharge themselves,
catch fire, explode, "brick" or whatever. Be safe, walk the course.

:-)

Flat courses have electric golf carts and hilly golf courses have
gasoline carts.

I wish I could walk the course no. My hips are giving out and I may need
to get my right great toe fused.

In article m,
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On 9/13/2012 7:51 PM, BAR wrote:
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On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:19:34 -0400, BAR wrote:

Electric cars have not advanced in 100 years.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml

===

That's not entirely true.

Battery technology has advanced a lot, and the Volt is a much more
comfortable, faster, safer and luxurious car than anything that
existed 100 years ago. I'd buy one now if the price was more in line.

Remind me to post a picture of my neighbors electric boat one of these
days. It looks better and better every time the price of fuel goes
up.

But that's not what FOX told him....

What advances in batteries have we made in the last 100 years?

Reduced weight, higher power. Think Li. Carbon based nanotube
ultracapacitors, and on and on.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news...ecent-battery-
advances/

http://www.technologyreview.com/news...ies-charge-up/

I've heard it all before. I know all about charging and discharging
cycles and issues.

The materials may have improved but, the basic battery is still the
same. You charge it, you discharge it, you charge it and the cycle keeps
repeating until the battery wears out.

Or catches on fire.

Some people tried to take some Priuses and turn them into all electric
vehicles. Those were the ones that exploded. The weren't controlling the
charge rate to the Lion batteries and they went boom.

On 9/13/2012 4:51 PM, BAR wrote:
The materials may have improved but, the basic battery is still the
same. You charge it, you discharge it, you charge it and the cycle keeps
repeating until the battery wears out.

Tide comes in... tide goes out... do you have a point?

On 9/13/2012 4:56 PM, BAR wrote:

You would have thought that withe 100 years of effort you wouldn't run
into the bricking problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/au...tery-Failures-
Make-Bricking-a-Buzzword.html?pagewanted=all


Q. Can this problem be prevented?

A. Yes. Electric vehicles can use fail-safe systems, with multiple
features to guard against full discharge, said Tom Gage, chief executive
of EV Grid, a company focusing on energy exchange between E.V.s and the
electric grid. They include the ability to isolate the battery from any
loads (other than monitoring) when the charge gets low, use of a backup
12-volt battery and a separate “wake-up” function, sometimes using an
external 9-volt battery, that can restart the vehicle’s systems. “At
this point, the battery must be slow-charged back to health, but it is
fully recoverable,” Mr. Gage said.



http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-ent...1-107k-fisker-
karma-bricks-during-testing

That's not an unrecoverable battery failure, it's an undefined breakdown.

In article , lid says...

On 9/13/2012 4:56 PM, BAR wrote:

You would have thought that withe 100 years of effort you wouldn't run
into the bricking problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/au...tery-Failures-
Make-Bricking-a-Buzzword.html?pagewanted=all


Q. Can this problem be prevented?

A. Yes. Electric vehicles can use fail-safe systems, with multiple
features to guard against full discharge, said Tom Gage, chief executive
of EV Grid, a company focusing on energy exchange between E.V.s and the
electric grid. They include the ability to isolate the battery from any
loads (other than monitoring) when the charge gets low, use of a backup
12-volt battery and a separate ?wake-up? function, sometimes using an
external 9-volt battery, that can restart the vehicle?s systems. ?At
this point, the battery must be slow-charged back to health, but it is
fully recoverable,? Mr. Gage said.

For the price of the vehicle you would have thought that the
manufacturer would have done this already.

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-ent...1-107k-fisker-
karma-bricks-during-testing

That's not an unrecoverable battery failure, it's an undefined breakdown.

A brick is a brick.

In article , lid says...

On 9/13/2012 4:51 PM, BAR wrote:
The materials may have improved but, the basic battery is still the
same. You charge it, you discharge it, you charge it and the cycle keeps
repeating until the battery wears out.

Tide comes in... tide goes out... do you have a point?

Yes, batteries have not change in 100 year or 2000 years. The Baghdad
battery is extremely similar to what we have today.

In article ,
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In article ,
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In article ,
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In article ,
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In article ,
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On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:19:34 -0400, BAR wrote:

Electric cars have not advanced in 100 years.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml

===

That's not entirely true.

Battery technology has advanced a lot, and the Volt is a much more
comfortable, faster, safer and luxurious car than anything that
existed 100 years ago. I'd buy one now if the price was more in line.

Remind me to post a picture of my neighbors electric boat one of these
days. It looks better and better every time the price of fuel goes
up.

But that's not what FOX told him....

What advances in batteries have we made in the last 100 years?

Reduced weight, higher power. Think Li. Carbon based nanotube
ultracapacitors, and on and on.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news...ecent-battery-
advances/

http://www.technologyreview.com/news...ies-charge-up/

I've heard it all before. I know all about charging and discharging
cycles and issues.

The materials may have improved but, the basic battery is still the
same. You charge it, you discharge it, you charge it and the cycle keeps
repeating until the battery wears out.

That's like saying that automobiles are the same as they were when Henry
first built one. Hey, the still have internal combustion engines, so
using your analogy, they must still be the same!