In article ,
says...


Interesting presentation but storage is not the primary challenge.
Generation is the challenge.


No. Storage and transmission are the main challenges.


"Nevada has the highest solar energy potential in the nation and is
already the number one state in per capita solar energy production. The
DOE estimates that 100 square miles of Nevada land could supply all U.S.
electricity needs with current (~10%) commercial efficiency rates. With
over 250 days of sunshine a year, Nevada is looking forward to a bright
solar future."

You can find similar all over the net. But the "100 square miles" is
wrong. Should read "100 miles square," which is 10,000 square miles.
That's about .0025 of U.S total square miles.
But solar panel efficiency is already about twice the 10% mentioned, so
that already halves the space needed. Things are moving fast in that
area.
Practically, the solar farms would be spread in many places over areas
with good sunshine.
What's lacking is storage, transmission, and a plan.
Same with wind, which also reduces the footprint of solar.


The only viable alternative to oil and other fossil fuel energy
generation is nuclear until some other
major breakthough is discovered.


The only breakthroughs needed are storage, transmission, a plan, and
a way to remove the shackles of the mind.
The last, as always, is the most difficult challenge.

I got a kick out of his presentation though. It was obviously not to
a group of his peers in the scientific
community. Well done, but if that presentation had been given at a
technical convention it would
have been met with multiple challenges and hot debates from the
audience, not a standing ovation.

He is an entrepreneur, and his audience was investors.
Bill Gates has kicked in $15m.
Whether his approach is the best will be found out in the field.
Others are taking different approaches.
I did notice one nation publicized a wind energy plan, and has already
put it in motion.
Ethiopia. With Chinese aid.
Apparently the Ethiopians and Chinese are more forward leaning than the
run-of-the-mill American skeptic.
Damn, what happened to our can-do spirit on big things?
Seems this country is now full of can't-do political hacks.
If that doesn't change, most of the world will **** on us.
Rightfully so.

On 6/27/2012 10:05 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:54:03 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

The power grid has to stay AC. Was the big battle between Edison and Tesla.
The DC was short distance, and the losses were large.

===

Yes, for the most part. There has been some interesting work done
however using very high voltage DC for long distance transmission.
HVDC has been made possible by the development of high powered
semiconductors and has the advantage of fewer losses in some
environments. It also allows power to be transmitted between grids
that are out of phase with each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-vo...direct_current

I wonder if it's feasible to transmit the AC and DC components
concurrently over the same transmission line?

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...


Interesting presentation but storage is not the primary challenge.
Generation is the challenge.


No. Storage and transmission are the main challenges.


"Nevada has the highest solar energy potential in the nation and is
already the number one state in per capita solar energy production. The
DOE estimates that 100 square miles of Nevada land could supply all U.S.
electricity needs with current (~10%) commercial efficiency rates. With
over 250 days of sunshine a year, Nevada is looking forward to a bright
solar future."

You can find similar all over the net. But the "100 square miles" is
wrong. Should read "100 miles square," which is 10,000 square miles.
That's about .0025 of U.S total square miles.
But solar panel efficiency is already about twice the 10% mentioned, so
that already halves the space needed. Things are moving fast in that
area.
Practically, the solar farms would be spread in many places over areas
with good sunshine.
What's lacking is storage, transmission, and a plan.
Same with wind, which also reduces the footprint of solar.


The only viable alternative to oil and other fossil fuel energy
generation is nuclear until some other
major breakthough is discovered.


The only breakthroughs needed are storage, transmission, a plan, and
a way to remove the shackles of the mind.
The last, as always, is the most difficult challenge.

I got a kick out of his presentation though. It was obviously not to
a group of his peers in the scientific
community. Well done, but if that presentation had been given at a
technical convention it would
have been met with multiple challenges and hot debates from the
audience, not a standing ovation.

He is an entrepreneur, and his audience was investors.
Bill Gates has kicked in $15m.
Whether his approach is the best will be found out in the field.
Others are taking different approaches.
I did notice one nation publicized a wind energy plan, and has already
put it in motion.
Ethiopia. With Chinese aid.
Apparently the Ethiopians and Chinese are more forward leaning than the
run-of-the-mill American skeptic.
Damn, what happened to our can-do spirit on big things?
Seems this country is now full of can't-do political hacks.
If that doesn't change, most of the world will **** on us.
Rightfully so.



It's big oil that has tainted the minds of the head in the sand set.

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 08:36:46 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Seems this country is now full of can't-do political hacks.
If that doesn't change, most of the world will **** on us.
Rightfully so.

===

Ayyup.

On 6/28/2012 6:00 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:30:42 AM UTC-4, thumper wrote:

Why do it all in one place? The inverters could be distributed and
tailored to smaller loads.

The presentation was talking about hooking this "to the grid", which implies a single connection point. You could distribute the DC then supply smaller loads, but now you'd have a single point of failure for those small loads, and you'd have the addition issue of the DC distribution. If you retain the present connection to the AC grid at each smaller load point (for redundancy), now you have two completely different distribution systems. We're quickly pricing this technology out of the realm of possibility.


Good point re. redundant distribution...

"thumper" wrote in message ...

On 6/27/2012 4:54 PM, Califbill wrote:

The power grid has to stay AC. Was the big battle between Edison and
Tesla. The DC was short distance, and the losses were large.

High voltage DC has less loss than AC due to reduced skin effect and
radiation loss and is used for long distance transmission.


------------------------------
Where?
The main lines in Central Calif are 500kv ac

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:53:06 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

"thumper" wrote in message ...

On 6/27/2012 4:54 PM, Califbill wrote:

The power grid has to stay AC. Was the big battle between Edison and
Tesla. The DC was short distance, and the losses were large.

High voltage DC has less loss than AC due to reduced skin effect and
radiation loss and is used for long distance transmission.


------------------------------
Where?
The main lines in Central Calif are 500kv ac

=====

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20101115005847/en/High-Voltage-DC-Transmission-Market-Grow-44