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The right wingers won't like this!
It's modern technology!!
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2RSePl/:lBqP_2kE:U! @upUCW/mashable.com/2012/06/23/tesla-model-s-factory/ |
The right wingers won't like this!
On Jun 24, 8:13*am, iBoaterer wrote:
It's modern technology!! http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2RSePl/:lBqP_2kE:U! @upUCW/mashable.com/2012/06/23/tesla-model-s-factory/ I take it you're alsos aying it should be orgasmic for the left- wingers? Really...how about a boating post for once |
The right wingers won't like this!
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:50:38 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote: How did we generate the electricity to charge the batteries? Most likely natural gas at this point in time. New driling technology has enabled the domestic production of more natural gas than we can currently use. Many power plants have already converted from oil or coal and most of the rest will convert within 5 to 10 years. Compressed natural gas (CNG) is also becoming a transportation fuel but the distribution and retail infrastructure will take a lot of work and investment. What is the efficiency of the charging process? Depends on the battery technology and the charger. On balance I don't view it as being all that important. Most of us are not against electric cars, we are against stupid subsidies. I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies. It is not at all clear however whether or not that is the case with electric autos. Everyone agrees that battery technology is critical to long term success. If subsidies can hurry along better battery production, I view that as a good thing that will also have positive fallout in other areas like off grid energy storage. It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion. |
The right wingers won't like this!
On 6/24/12 4:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:50:38 -0700, "Califbill" wrote: How did we generate the electricity to charge the batteries? Most likely natural gas at this point in time. New driling technology has enabled the domestic production of more natural gas than we can currently use. Many power plants have already converted from oil or coal and most of the rest will convert within 5 to 10 years. Compressed natural gas (CNG) is also becoming a transportation fuel but the distribution and retail infrastructure will take a lot of work and investment. What is the efficiency of the charging process? Depends on the battery technology and the charger. On balance I don't view it as being all that important. Most of us are not against electric cars, we are against stupid subsidies. I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies. It is not at all clear however whether or not that is the case with electric autos. Everyone agrees that battery technology is critical to long term success. If subsidies can hurry along better battery production, I view that as a good thing that will also have positive fallout in other areas like off grid energy storage. It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion. I wonder what could be better for long-term improvement of the US economy than to take the lead in the development of battery and other alternative energy technology. Our daily auto transportation needs here are pretty limited during the work week...about 15 miles each way to the commuter bus twice a day, and then maybe another 10 miles round trip to the commercial (supermarkets, restaurants, et cetera) district. Add in some reserve, and an inexpensive but sturdy car that'll do 125-150 miles a day on a charge from a household charger would be very attractive. |
The right wingers won't like this!
On 6/24/2012 4:26 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/24/12 4:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:50:38 -0700, "Califbill" wrote: How did we generate the electricity to charge the batteries? Most likely natural gas at this point in time. New driling technology has enabled the domestic production of more natural gas than we can currently use. Many power plants have already converted from oil or coal and most of the rest will convert within 5 to 10 years. Compressed natural gas (CNG) is also becoming a transportation fuel but the distribution and retail infrastructure will take a lot of work and investment. What is the efficiency of the charging process? Depends on the battery technology and the charger. On balance I don't view it as being all that important. Most of us are not against electric cars, we are against stupid subsidies. I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies. It is not at all clear however whether or not that is the case with electric autos. Everyone agrees that battery technology is critical to long term success. If subsidies can hurry along better battery production, I view that as a good thing that will also have positive fallout in other areas like off grid energy storage. It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion. I wonder what could be better for long-term improvement of the US economy than to take the lead in the development of battery and other alternative energy technology. Our daily auto transportation needs here are pretty limited during the work week...about 15 miles each way to the commuter bus twice a day, and then maybe another 10 miles round trip to the commercial (supermarkets, restaurants, et cetera) district. Add in some reserve, and an inexpensive but sturdy car that'll do 125-150 miles a day on a charge from a household charger would be very attractive. I think you are ready for an electric hybrid car. You have minimal needs. So the question is which one will it be for you? |
The right wingers won't like this!
On Jun 24, 3:07*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies. That is, unless your the receiver of subsidies. It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion. Agreed!!! |
The right wingers won't like this!
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:50:38 -0700, "Califbill" wrote: How did we generate the electricity to charge the batteries? Most likely natural gas at this point in time. New driling technology has enabled the domestic production of more natural gas than we can currently use. Many power plants have already converted from oil or coal and most of the rest will convert within 5 to 10 years. Compressed natural gas (CNG) is also becoming a transportation fuel but the distribution and retail infrastructure will take a lot of work and investment. What is the efficiency of the charging process? Depends on the battery technology and the charger. On balance I don't view it as being all that important. Most of us are not against electric cars, we are against stupid subsidies. I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies. It is not at all clear however whether or not that is the case with electric autos. Everyone agrees that battery technology is critical to long term success. If subsidies can hurry along better battery production, I view that as a good thing that will also have positive fallout in other areas like off grid energy storage. It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion. ----------------------------------------------------------------- I think it is already politicized. As to efficiency, that is a big question and problem. We are losing about 8-10% in line loss now, just getting the power distributed. We are maximum generating capacity in a lot of areas. with the huge growth in electronics usage, we have not kept up with power generation. We use a lot of natural gas in generation but lots and lots of coal, which is a fairly dirty source. Lots of Radon gas released in mining, and we better have great scrubbers on the stacks. Most of the mercury in fish from the open ocean is from the Chinese coal burning plants. No scrubbers, and mercury is an off shoot of burning coal. Both better battery technology is required for better charging operation and for higher power density in the battery. If you use a flooded cell battery, you are going to be using tons of battery to get distance. The higher tech batteries still are going to have huge weight for enough KWH's to run a car a long distance. |
The right wingers won't like this!
wrote in message ... You are making the same argument that automobiles will never replace horses. Electricity is likely to be the next fuel, but one thing is a sure thing: petroleum is going out. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Not for quite a while, I don't think. Electricity and battery powered automobiles are simply examples of energy generated by other means and converted to electricity and/or stored in batteries. If the current fascination with "green", electric powered cars grows, we will see the cost of generating the energy required to charge them rise. The bulk of raw energy is still in the form of fossil fuels and the conversion process adds additional energy and cost requirements. Those who think they are being "green" by driving a battery powered car have been fed a line of BS. It might make them feel good or give them some sense of being environmentally friendly, but the truth is they are more environmentally "unfriendly" than friendly. Lithium Ion batteries are the best technology we have to date and they are an environmental hazard the likes of which we haven't yet to fully experience. Solar and wind can't come close to meeting the demand and nuclear is still a political hot potato. Here's where the energy used to produce electricity in the USA comes from: http://mapawatt.com/wp-content/uploa...table_2010.gif Eisboch |
The right wingers won't like this!
In article ,
says... On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:02:29 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: wrote in message ... You are making the same argument that automobiles will never replace horses. Electricity is likely to be the next fuel, but one thing is a sure thing: petroleum is going out. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Not for quite a while, I don't think. Electricity and battery powered automobiles are simply examples of energy generated by other means and converted to electricity and/or stored in batteries. If the current fascination with "green", electric powered cars grows, we will see the cost of generating the energy required to charge them rise. The bulk of raw energy is still in the form of fossil fuels and the conversion process adds additional energy and cost requirements. Those who think they are being "green" by driving a battery powered car have been fed a line of BS. It might make them feel good or give them some sense of being environmentally friendly, but the truth is they are more environmentally "unfriendly" than friendly. Lithium Ion batteries are the best technology we have to date and they are an environmental hazard the likes of which we haven't yet to fully experience. Solar and wind can't come close to meeting the demand and nuclear is still a political hot potato. Here's where the energy used to produce electricity in the USA comes from: http://mapawatt.com/wp-content/uploa...table_2010.gif Eisboch All of that seems quite obvious. Batteries will likely NOT be the most efficient storage medium, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be used in the interim. Oil is on its way out. Period. Oil isn't on the way out. The infrastructure is all oil based from acquisition, to refining, to distribution and finally to consumption. When you can put 8,000 gallons of gas or diesel in a tanker and take it to where you need it for 24 hour a day use in almost any weather condition batteries can't perform like that and neither can solar or wind. If people are there then the oil can get there. Unless somebody can give me a viable alternative, I'm sticking with electricity as the next fuel. Water produces electricity. Coal produces electricity. Solar produces electricity. Wind produces electricity. Oil produces electricity. Nuclear produces electricity. Electricity is a method of delivery and consumption it is not a fuel. |
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