21 million...
 

That's the number of registered Latino voters in the United States.

Now, if the Republicans had only supported the Dream Act but...nooooooooo...

Love it!

21 million...
 

On 6/16/12 11:58 AM, wrote:
American kids prefer easier
schedules and come out of college with a useless degree in a field
where jobs don't exist.


I'm sure that *some* American kids prefer lighter college schedules. It
is also true that *some* American kids don't go to college as if it were
a trade school, but, rather, as a way to expand their minds and their
knowledge, and learn how to think critically. There are many courses in
the "liberal arts" that are extraordinarily difficult and require a hell
of a lot more thinking than many of the so-called trade school classes.

One of the reasons why our politics is so crappy in this country is that
too many of the voters simply don't know how to think.

21 million...
 

On 6/16/12 5:42 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 17:02:58 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 6/16/12 11:58 AM, wrote:
American kids prefer easier
schedules and come out of college with a useless degree in a field
where jobs don't exist.


I'm sure that *some* American kids prefer lighter college schedules. It
is also true that *some* American kids don't go to college as if it were
a trade school, but, rather, as a way to expand their minds and their
knowledge, and learn how to think critically. There are many courses in
the "liberal arts" that are extraordinarily difficult and require a hell
of a lot more thinking than many of the so-called trade school classes.

One of the reasons why our politics is so crappy in this country is that
too many of the voters simply don't know how to think.

The fact remains that most of the people in math and engineering
programs are foreigners and far too many American kids come out with a
degree that simply makes them the most engaging Barista at Starbucks.


What's your degree in?

21 million...
 

On 6/16/12 6:51 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 17:45:43 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/16/12 5:42 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 17:02:58 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 6/16/12 11:58 AM, wrote:
American kids prefer easier
schedules and come out of college with a useless degree in a field
where jobs don't exist.


I'm sure that *some* American kids prefer lighter college schedules. It
is also true that *some* American kids don't go to college as if it were
a trade school, but, rather, as a way to expand their minds and their
knowledge, and learn how to think critically. There are many courses in
the "liberal arts" that are extraordinarily difficult and require a hell
of a lot more thinking than many of the so-called trade school classes.

One of the reasons why our politics is so crappy in this country is that
too many of the voters simply don't know how to think.

The fact remains that most of the people in math and engineering
programs are foreigners and far too many American kids come out with a
degree that simply makes them the most engaging Barista at Starbucks.


What's your degree in?

Life experience and a whole lot of training from the Navy, IBM, SBCCI,
IAEI and work I have done on my own.
I would stack that up against a BA in post modern art appreciation any
day. So did everyone who hired me.


Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

21 million...
 

In article ,
says...

On 6/16/12 6:51 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 17:45:43 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/16/12 5:42 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 17:02:58 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 6/16/12 11:58 AM, wrote:
American kids prefer easier
schedules and come out of college with a useless degree in a field
where jobs don't exist.


I'm sure that *some* American kids prefer lighter college schedules. It
is also true that *some* American kids don't go to college as if it were
a trade school, but, rather, as a way to expand their minds and their
knowledge, and learn how to think critically. There are many courses in
the "liberal arts" that are extraordinarily difficult and require a hell
of a lot more thinking than many of the so-called trade school classes.

One of the reasons why our politics is so crappy in this country is that
too many of the voters simply don't know how to think.

The fact remains that most of the people in math and engineering
programs are foreigners and far too many American kids come out with a
degree that simply makes them the most engaging Barista at Starbucks.


What's your degree in?

Life experience and a whole lot of training from the Navy, IBM, SBCCI,
IAEI and work I have done on my own.
I would stack that up against a BA in post modern art appreciation any
day. So did everyone who hired me.


Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...28804,2073703_
2073653_2073690,00.html

21 million...
 

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073653_2073690,00.html

===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.

21 million...
 

On 6/17/12 11:12 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073653_2073690,00.html

===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.



As I mentioned earlier in this thread, "top paid careers" is not
necessarily the incentive for many of those who attend college.

21 million...
 

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073653_2073690,00.html

===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.

These were undergrad only.

21 million...
 

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 6/17/12 11:12 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073653_2073690,00.html

===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.



As I mentioned earlier in this thread, "top paid careers" is not
necessarily the incentive for many of those who attend college.

True, some people are dumb enough to spends tens of thousands of dollars
to work at the golden arches.

21 million...
 

On Friday, June 15, 2012 3:44:14 PM UTC-5, X ` Man wrote:
That's the number of registered Latino voters in the United States.

Now, if the Republicans had only supported the Dream Act but...nooooooooo...

Love it!

Well howdy, Krausie. Yessiree, you tell 'em Fat Man! By the way, how's the Dr.-Dr.-Dr.? Any additional degrees since you last reported?

21 million...
 

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:10:13 -0400, wrote:

I know people who "Cs and Ds" through 5 or 6 years of college and they
still don't know how to think.

===

That's common, even with those who got As and Bs. Just as common are
those who don't know how to use what they supposedly learned, and
don't recognize opportunity.

21 million...
 

On 6/17/12 10:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:11:03 -0400, X ` Man

Yeah, I think following a course of study with professors, academic
libraries, peers, writing of intellectual papers helps one think
cogently, as it were.

I will admit, though, that you seem to have your disdain for obtaining
knowledge in a rigorous disciplined fashioned down pat. That's fairly
typical for those who never went to college or completed a degree.





The issue is that actually getting knowledge is slow to come by in
college. I got 2 semesters of electronic engineering in 4 weeks in a
Navy school. That was just part of 18 weeks of training that came at
us fast. You didn't have to learn it, they have ships they want to
have painted.

Yeah, I'm *sure* you got the equivalent of two semesters of engineering
training in four weeks. Right. I believe that.

21 million...
 

On Jun 18, 7:03*am, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 11:12:36 -0400, Wayne.B









wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_20....

===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. * The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.

The people who make obscene amounts of money dropped out of college.

Seems that way doesn't it Greg. Or, they bumbled their way through and
graduated with the skin of their teeth.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 8:03 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 11:12:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073653_2073690,00.html

===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.

The people who make obscene amounts of money dropped out of college.



Those who shaped Western Civilization and thought were not, for the most
part, wealthy. Many of them, in fact, were paupers, but they gave us a
lot more than stories of their wealth. It's sad but telling that so many
of you righties only value the ability to earn large sums of money. Any
decent classroom teacher/nurse/social worker/fireman is more valuable to
society than *any* of you.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/2012 8:08 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 8:03 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 11:12:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art
major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073653_2073690,00.html


===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.

The people who make obscene amounts of money dropped out of college.



Those who shaped Western Civilization and thought were not, for the most
part, wealthy. Many of them, in fact, were paupers, but they gave us a
lot more than stories of their wealth. It's sad but telling that so many
of you righties only value the ability to earn large sums of money. Any
decent classroom teacher/nurse/social worker/fireman is more valuable to
society than *any* of you.


I notice you left out jingle writers. Good on you. ;-)

You do, however subscribe to the notion that "He who dies with the most
toys wins". Want to brag on that boat of yours? Or have you learned your
lesson? :-)

21 million...
 

On 6/18/2012 9:49 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:14:07 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/17/12 10:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:11:03 -0400, X ` Man

Yeah, I think following a course of study with professors, academic
libraries, peers, writing of intellectual papers helps one think
cogently, as it were.

I will admit, though, that you seem to have your disdain for obtaining
knowledge in a rigorous disciplined fashioned down pat. That's fairly
typical for those who never went to college or completed a degree.





The issue is that actually getting knowledge is slow to come by in
college. I got 2 semesters of electronic engineering in 4 weeks in a
Navy school. That was just part of 18 weeks of training that came at
us fast. You didn't have to learn it, they have ships they want to
have painted.

Yeah, I'm *sure* you got the equivalent of two semesters of engineering
training in four weeks. Right. I believe that.



Why is it hard to believe. It was an 8 hour day, 5 days a week with no
bull****.



There is no way he could understand what disciplined learning is all about.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/2012 9:55 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 6/18/2012 9:49 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:14:07 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/17/12 10:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:11:03 -0400, X ` Man

Yeah, I think following a course of study with professors, academic
libraries, peers, writing of intellectual papers helps one think
cogently, as it were.

I will admit, though, that you seem to have your disdain for obtaining
knowledge in a rigorous disciplined fashioned down pat. That's fairly
typical for those who never went to college or completed a degree.





The issue is that actually getting knowledge is slow to come by in
college. I got 2 semesters of electronic engineering in 4 weeks in a
Navy school. That was just part of 18 weeks of training that came at
us fast. You didn't have to learn it, they have ships they want to
have painted.

Yeah, I'm *sure* you got the equivalent of two semesters of engineering
training in four weeks. Right. I believe that.



Why is it hard to believe. It was an 8 hour day, 5 days a week with no
bull****.



There is no way he could understand what disciplined learning is all about.

You guys talking about harry? LOL, he went to bumb**** u to stay out of
the military... The guy hasn't done anything productive since...

21 million...
 

On 6/18/2012 8:50 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 6/18/2012 8:08 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 8:03 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 11:12:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art
major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073653_2073690,00.html



===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.

The people who make obscene amounts of money dropped out of college.



Those who shaped Western Civilization and thought were not, for the most
part, wealthy. Many of them, in fact, were paupers, but they gave us a
lot more than stories of their wealth. It's sad but telling that so many
of you righties only value the ability to earn large sums of money. Any
decent classroom teacher/nurse/social worker/fireman is more valuable to
society than *any* of you.


I notice you left out jingle writers. Good on you. ;-)

You do, however subscribe to the notion that "He who dies with the most
toys wins". Want to brag on that boat of yours? Or have you learned your
lesson? :-)

It's funny how they always talk about teachers, police, firefighters and
the children "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN"!!! When in reality, most towns
around here took all the porkulus money and spent it on unnecessary
projects that outerwise wouldn't have been funded... and didn't need to be.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 10:00 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:08:33 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

The people who make obscene amounts of money dropped out of college.



Those who shaped Western Civilization and thought were not, for the most
part, wealthy. Many of them, in fact, were paupers, but they gave us a
lot more than stories of their wealth

They did it without college too.

The idea that college is necessary "to learn how to think" is
ridiculous.
I imagine I have spent more time in class than most of the people
here, it just wasn't at a university.

I learned real skills, not some bull**** philosophy from a professor
that went to school at 5 and never left. These people have never
actually worked in the real world. Why would we expect any real world
knowledge from them.



You might not be aware of this, but you are presenting almost verbatim
the sort of response those who didn't go to college offer. It doesn't wash.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 10:09 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 6/18/2012 9:55 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 6/18/2012 9:49 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:14:07 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/17/12 10:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:11:03 -0400, X ` Man

Yeah, I think following a course of study with professors, academic
libraries, peers, writing of intellectual papers helps one think
cogently, as it were.

I will admit, though, that you seem to have your disdain for
obtaining
knowledge in a rigorous disciplined fashioned down pat. That's fairly
typical for those who never went to college or completed a degree.





The issue is that actually getting knowledge is slow to come by in
college. I got 2 semesters of electronic engineering in 4 weeks in a
Navy school. That was just part of 18 weeks of training that came at
us fast. You didn't have to learn it, they have ships they want to
have painted.

Yeah, I'm *sure* you got the equivalent of two semesters of engineering
training in four weeks. Right. I believe that.



Why is it hard to believe. It was an 8 hour day, 5 days a week with no
bull****.



There is no way he could understand what disciplined learning is all
about.

You guys talking about harry? LOL, he went to bumb**** u to stay out of
the military... The guy hasn't done anything productive since...

I know you have serious problems dealing with reality, but...I wasn't
drafted, and neither were most males in my age group. You're really a
stupid little ****.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/2012 10:22 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 10:00 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:08:33 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

The people who make obscene amounts of money dropped out of college.



Those who shaped Western Civilization and thought were not, for the most
part, wealthy. Many of them, in fact, were paupers, but they gave us a
lot more than stories of their wealth

They did it without college too.

The idea that college is necessary "to learn how to think" is
ridiculous.
I imagine I have spent more time in class than most of the people
here, it just wasn't at a university.

I learned real skills, not some bull**** philosophy from a professor
that went to school at 5 and never left. These people have never
actually worked in the real world. Why would we expect any real world
knowledge from them.



You might not be aware of this, but you are presenting almost verbatim
the sort of response those who didn't go to college offer. It doesn't wash.


Sure it does. The fact that you didn't pick up any useful and meaningful
skills along your life's journey is no one's fault but yours.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/2012 10:35 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 10:09 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 6/18/2012 9:55 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 6/18/2012 9:49 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:14:07 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/17/12 10:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:11:03 -0400, X ` Man

Yeah, I think following a course of study with professors, academic
libraries, peers, writing of intellectual papers helps one think
cogently, as it were.

I will admit, though, that you seem to have your disdain for
obtaining
knowledge in a rigorous disciplined fashioned down pat. That's
fairly
typical for those who never went to college or completed a degree.





The issue is that actually getting knowledge is slow to come by in
college. I got 2 semesters of electronic engineering in 4 weeks in a
Navy school. That was just part of 18 weeks of training that came at
us fast. You didn't have to learn it, they have ships they want to
have painted.

Yeah, I'm *sure* you got the equivalent of two semesters of
engineering
training in four weeks. Right. I believe that.



Why is it hard to believe. It was an 8 hour day, 5 days a week with no
bull****.



There is no way he could understand what disciplined learning is all
about.

You guys talking about harry? LOL, he went to bumb**** u to stay out of
the military... The guy hasn't done anything productive since...

I know you have serious problems dealing with reality, but...I wasn't
drafted, and neither were most males in my age group. You're really a
stupid little ****.


Uh oh. Harry's on the hot seat.

21 million...
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:14:07 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/17/12 10:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:11:03 -0400, X ` Man

Yeah, I think following a course of study with professors, academic
libraries, peers, writing of intellectual papers helps one think
cogently, as it were.

I will admit, though, that you seem to have your disdain for obtaining
knowledge in a rigorous disciplined fashioned down pat. That's fairly
typical for those who never went to college or completed a degree.





The issue is that actually getting knowledge is slow to come by in
college. I got 2 semesters of electronic engineering in 4 weeks in a
Navy school. That was just part of 18 weeks of training that came at
us fast. You didn't have to learn it, they have ships they want to
have painted.

Yeah, I'm *sure* you got the equivalent of two semesters of engineering
training in four weeks. Right. I believe that.



Why is it hard to believe. It was an 8 hour day, 5 days a week with no
bull****.

Because Harry doesn't understand that there are other ways to gain
significant knowledge other than go to college.

21 million...
 

In article , says...

On 6/18/2012 8:50 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 6/18/2012 8:08 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 8:03 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 11:12:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:06:49 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Ahh, but it sort of depends on the job being sought, eh? An "art
major"
might be just the degree sought by employers at ad agencies, museums,
magazines, music companies, et cetera.

Here's a good list. Note that of the top paid careers, the words
Engineering or Science is in every one of the job titles. Notice the
abundance of the word "arts" in the lowest paid group!

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073653_2073690,00.html



===

Lists like that are interesting but somewhat meaningless. The really
big bucks are being made by doctors, lawyers, bankers, investment
managers, business owners/executives, real estate developers, etc.

The people who make obscene amounts of money dropped out of college.



Those who shaped Western Civilization and thought were not, for the most
part, wealthy. Many of them, in fact, were paupers, but they gave us a
lot more than stories of their wealth. It's sad but telling that so many
of you righties only value the ability to earn large sums of money. Any
decent classroom teacher/nurse/social worker/fireman is more valuable to
society than *any* of you.


I notice you left out jingle writers. Good on you. ;-)

You do, however subscribe to the notion that "He who dies with the most
toys wins". Want to brag on that boat of yours? Or have you learned your
lesson? :-)

It's funny how they always talk about teachers, police, firefighters and
the children "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN"!!! When in reality, most towns
around here took all the porkulus money and spent it on unnecessary
projects that outerwise wouldn't have been funded... and didn't need to be.

Gee around these parts, new fire stations were built, new equipment
bought, sidewalks put in, and on and on.

21 million...
 

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:14:07 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

The issue is that actually getting knowledge is slow to come by in
college. I got 2 semesters of electronic engineering in 4 weeks in a
Navy school. That was just part of 18 weeks of training that came at
us fast. You didn't have to learn it, they have ships they want to
have painted.

Yeah, I'm *sure* you got the equivalent of two semesters of engineering
training in four weeks. Right. I believe that.

===

The navy electronics courses are absolutley first rate and easily
comparable to the Circuits 101 and Circuits 102 courses that EEs take
in terms of practical, hands-on knowledge. In addition to circuit
theory, EEs also need advanced mathematics, physics and design which
is necessary for theoretical analysis and modeling. The navy does not
offer that because it is not needed to do practical work in the field.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 12:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:14:07 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

The issue is that actually getting knowledge is slow to come by in
college. I got 2 semesters of electronic engineering in 4 weeks in a
Navy school. That was just part of 18 weeks of training that came at
us fast. You didn't have to learn it, they have ships they want to
have painted.

Yeah, I'm *sure* you got the equivalent of two semesters of engineering
training in four weeks. Right. I believe that.

===

The navy electronics courses are absolutley first rate and easily
comparable to the Circuits 101 and Circuits 102 courses that EEs take
in terms of practical, hands-on knowledge. In addition to circuit
theory, EEs also need advanced mathematics, physics and design which
is necessary for theoretical analysis and modeling. The navy does not
offer that because it is not needed to do practical work in the field.



Nowhere did I state or claim the navy courses weren't first rate. I
stated that four weeks of training was not the equivalent of two
semesters in engineering school. Try reading for comprehension.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 12:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:22:41 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/18/12 10:00 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:08:33 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

The people who make obscene amounts of money dropped out of college.



Those who shaped Western Civilization and thought were not, for the most
part, wealthy. Many of them, in fact, were paupers, but they gave us a
lot more than stories of their wealth

They did it without college too.

The idea that college is necessary "to learn how to think" is
ridiculous.
I imagine I have spent more time in class than most of the people
here, it just wasn't at a university.

I learned real skills, not some bull**** philosophy from a professor
that went to school at 5 and never left. These people have never
actually worked in the real world. Why would we expect any real world
knowledge from them.



You might not be aware of this, but you are presenting almost verbatim
the sort of response those who didn't go to college offer. It doesn't wash.

People who did go and are now trying to pay off a $100,000 student
loan in a $15 an hour job probably say the same thing.


On the other hand, I know plenty of liberal arts grads who are pulling
down six figure incomes at jobs with pretty decent benefits, and who
weren't trained by the navy.

21 million...
 

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:28:48 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

Try reading for comprehension.

===

Likewise.

Apparently the Socratic method did not teach you to recognize when
someone is partially agreeing with you.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:30:58 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On the other hand, I know plenty of liberal arts grads who are pulling
down six figure incomes at jobs with pretty decent benefits, and who
weren't trained by the navy.

Doing what?



Do you even know what "the liberal arts" are?

In modern colleges and universities, liberal arts include literature,
languages, philosophy, history, mathematics, the physical and biological
sciences, and the social sciences.

I'm a liberal arts grad. I started earning an annual income in the six
figures in the 1970's, and I still am earning at that level from work I
do, even though I have cut back some.

I have friends who are professors at several local universities who are
earning six figure salaries, and they are all liberal arts grads.

Most of my advertising, PR and marketing colleagues earn substantial six
figure salaries and bonuses.

There are many scientists at the NIH and other health and science
related agencies that earn in the six figures.

We know at least a dozen psychotherapists who earn more than $100,000 a
year.

The highest salaried guy I know as a close friend, a recent retiree,
earned more than $500,000 a year at his job. He's a lit and history grad
of the University of Notre Dame.

I know dozens and dozens of liberal arts grads earning well over
$100,000 a year. As far as I know, none were trained by the Navy.

21 million...
 

On Monday, June 18, 2012 3:49:33 PM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:30:58 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On the other hand, I know plenty of liberal arts grads who are pulling
down six figure incomes at jobs with pretty decent benefits, and who
weren't trained by the navy.

Doing what?



I have friends who are professors at several local universities who are
earning six figure salaries, and they are all liberal arts grads.

Most of my advertising, PR and marketing colleagues earn substantial six
figure salaries and bonuses.

We know at least a dozen psychotherapists who earn more than $100,000 a
year.

The highest salaried guy I know as a close friend, a recent retiree,
earned more than $500,000 a year at his job. He's a lit and history grad
of the University of Notre Dame.

I know dozens and dozens of liberal arts grads earning well over
$100,000 a year. As far as I know, none were trained by the Navy.

Funny... I have many friends, and I don't know what any of them earn. Well, except one, and he's been a friend since childhood.

Talking about such things just isn't polite, and not done in polite company.

Somthing smells about your claim to know what 'dozens and dozens' of people earn.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 4:21 PM, wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 3:49:33 PM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:30:58 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On the other hand, I know plenty of liberal arts grads who are pulling
down six figure incomes at jobs with pretty decent benefits, and who
weren't trained by the navy.

Doing what?



I have friends who are professors at several local universities who are
earning six figure salaries, and they are all liberal arts grads.

Most of my advertising, PR and marketing colleagues earn substantial six
figure salaries and bonuses.

We know at least a dozen psychotherapists who earn more than $100,000 a
year.

The highest salaried guy I know as a close friend, a recent retiree,
earned more than $500,000 a year at his job. He's a lit and history grad
of the University of Notre Dame.

I know dozens and dozens of liberal arts grads earning well over
$100,000 a year. As far as I know, none were trained by the Navy.

Funny... I have many friends, and I don't know what any of them earn. Well, except one, and he's been a friend since childhood.

Talking about such things just isn't polite, and not done in polite company.

Somthing smells about your claim to know what 'dozens and dozens' of people earn.


We're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy. People in the big cities talk
salaries and incomes. My academic buddies are always comparing what
their various institutions pay.

Salaries are pretty well known in big city ad businesses.

Psychotherapists talk shop, including reimbursement policies from
insurance companies, costs of handling paperwork, income, et cetera.

The salary of my now retired Notre Dame friend was published.

What smells, really smells, is your socially backwards state of South
Carolina.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/2012 4:21 PM, wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 3:49:33 PM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:30:58 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On the other hand, I know plenty of liberal arts grads who are pulling
down six figure incomes at jobs with pretty decent benefits, and who
weren't trained by the navy.

Doing what?



I have friends who are professors at several local universities who are
earning six figure salaries, and they are all liberal arts grads.

Most of my advertising, PR and marketing colleagues earn substantial six
figure salaries and bonuses.

We know at least a dozen psychotherapists who earn more than $100,000 a
year.

The highest salaried guy I know as a close friend, a recent retiree,
earned more than $500,000 a year at his job. He's a lit and history grad
of the University of Notre Dame.

I know dozens and dozens of liberal arts grads earning well over
$100,000 a year. As far as I know, none were trained by the Navy.

Funny... I have many friends, and I don't know what any of them earn. Well, except one, and he's been a friend since childhood.

Talking about such things just isn't polite, and not done in polite company.

Somthing smells about your claim to know what 'dozens and dozens' of people earn.


It's obviously a harrytale..

21 million...
 

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:31:37 -0400, wrote:

The world is full of learning opportunities if you are willing to
read, watch and ask questions.

===

Absolutely true. There's nothing like a curious mind and the
motivation to follow up. I'm always amazed at the amount of
collective knowledge that exists on the internet these days. I taught
myself HTML and Javascript back in the 90s just from internet based
education of various sorts - partly as a hobby, and partly because I
knew it would eventually come in handy with my day job.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 5:55 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:31:37 -0400, wrote:

The world is full of learning opportunities if you are willing to
read, watch and ask questions.

===

Absolutely true. There's nothing like a curious mind and the
motivation to follow up. I'm always amazed at the amount of
collective knowledge that exists on the internet these days. I taught
myself HTML and Javascript back in the 90s just from internet based
education of various sorts - partly as a hobby, and partly because I
knew it would eventually come in handy with my day job.


I started learning the programming necessary to develop a decent website
about a year ago, and I thought the learning curve was really steep at
the beginning. I do ok now, though I'm certainly no "whiz," and I
recently produced a nice new webpage for one of my NGO clients.
It's a geopolitical site, and we're getting about 200 hits a day, which
isn't bad, considering we're not doing much to promote it.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 7:31 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:49:33 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/18/12 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:30:58 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On the other hand, I know plenty of liberal arts grads who are pulling
down six figure incomes at jobs with pretty decent benefits, and who
weren't trained by the navy.

Doing what?



Do you even know what "the liberal arts" are?

yes


I have friends who are professors at several local universities who are
earning six figure salaries, and they are all liberal arts grads.

My daughter's father in law would be surprised at that.e retired as a
history professor at a state university and he never made that much
money. He says his wife made more money some years as an ER nurse but
he admits she worked a lot harder than him.

He insisted that all his kids get degrees in science or engineering.

Most of my advertising, PR and marketing colleagues earn substantial six
figure salaries and bonuses.

That sounds right if they can sell but if you can sell you don't need
a degree.

There are many scientists at the NIH and other health and science
related agencies that earn in the six figures.

Those are science degrees aren't they? BYW are they government
employees? What grade? A 6 figure GS salary is rare.

We know at least a dozen psychotherapists who earn more than $100,000 a
year.

MDs OK

The highest salaried guy I know as a close friend, a recent retiree,
earned more than $500,000 a year at his job. He's a lit and history grad
of the University of Notre Dame.

Again doing what?


I know dozens and dozens of liberal arts grads earning well over
$100,000 a year. As far as I know, none were trained by the Navy.

I didn't say the navy was the only place you could get knowledge, just
that it was a good place to get it in a hurry.

18 weeks of a 8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time.

When you toss out the fluff courses kids pad out their schedule with
that is plenty of time.

I had closer to 10,000 hours of education at IBM and I have hundreds
of hours for my inspector license. I am not afraid of learning. I like
it. I just want to go at a faster pace.


GS 14s and 15s pay over $100,000 and in many markets, like this one,
there's a locality adjustment. Around here, it is about 25%. These
rankings are not rare around here. There are also federal jobs that are
off the GS chart and pay more.

We have some elite universities around here. Full professors can earn in
the mid $150,000 range.

Science degrees can fall under the "purview" of liberal arts.

This sounds like "rote learning and memorization" to me: "18 weeks of a
8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time." Not much time to think about what you are
learning and contemplating possibilities.

My retired friend ran a large and successful NGO.

Back in the day, I was a consultant to a labor union and for five years
I marketed its health plan to federal and postal workers. That means I
wrote and placed a lot of advertising, hired and trained people to
answer phones during open season, et cetera. When I started, the plan
had 20,000 enrollees. Four years later, it had nearly 600,000. What
changed? The marketing. My contact called for a reasonable monthly
fee...this was in the late 1970's and it was about $4,000 a month, plus
I got $1 for each new enrollee each year. You can do the math. And I'm
just an English major.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/2012 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:00:29 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/18/12 5:55 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:31:37 -0400, wrote:

The world is full of learning opportunities if you are willing to
read, watch and ask questions.

===

Absolutely true. There's nothing like a curious mind and the
motivation to follow up. I'm always amazed at the amount of
collective knowledge that exists on the internet these days. I taught
myself HTML and Javascript back in the 90s just from internet based
education of various sorts - partly as a hobby, and partly because I
knew it would eventually come in handy with my day job.


I started learning the programming necessary to develop a decent website
about a year ago, and I thought the learning curve was really steep at
the beginning. I do ok now, though I'm certainly no "whiz," and I
recently produced a nice new webpage for one of my NGO clients.
It's a geopolitical site, and we're getting about 200 hits a day, which
isn't bad, considering we're not doing much to promote it.

If I was actually building a commercial web site I would use a program
like Front Page or maybe something more powerful.
I just use my web page as an FTP site so I don't need that much
software. You can make something functional with word.

I am surprised you would use FrontPage, it's such a dog and very
proprietary. When we build sites I use Dreamweaver and then the wife
goes in and manually cleans up the HTML...

21 million...
 

In article ,
says...


Funny... I have many friends, and I don't know what any of them earn. Well, except one, and he's been a friend since childhood.

Talking about such things just isn't polite, and not done in polite company.

Somthing smells about your claim to know what 'dozens and dozens' of people earn.

You must only talk about such things in "quiet rooms."
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/01...iet-rooms.html

I've always known within maybe 10-20 percent what friends earn.
Workmates within 10 percent or less, sometimes exactly.
It's part of normal human interactions for approximate earnings to be
revealed.
Some of it is generally public knowledge.
And it's a means of helping and protecting one another in life and
career.
That doesn't apply for fat cats, who aren't normal.
Thinking that a normal person would "envy" him, shows that Romney
doesn't understand normal people. Only people of his ilk would envy him.
Reveals he is envious of those with more lucre than him.
Pretty sad, really, to live like that.
I see some of that same quality in Krause, always talking about wealth.
Many people have wised up, though.
I saw a woman participating in C-Span forum put that succinctly when she
said understanding "derivatives" is simple, not complicated as it's made
out to be.
The simple definition of derivatives is "How a bunch of rich guys stole
your money."
That's what's important to know. Who is stealing from you.
You can stay in the dark, in a quiet room if you choose. Free country.

21 million...
 

In article ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

21 million...
 

On 6/18/12 9:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:48:22 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

This sounds like "rote learning and memorization" to me: "18 weeks of a
8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time." Not much time to think about what you are
learning and contemplating possibilities.

This was a little different than the set it and forget it education
you get in regular schools. We lived this stuff. I had a side gig
tutoring a couple of the E5s that were in a rate change and
struggling. I wasn't paid but I got good duty.
Those boys were scared because the penalty for failing was a lot worse
for them. I spent a couple hours a night going over the day with
them.. They got me into Cappy's White Horse tavern for a beer after.
I also did not have to get up in the morning for jumping jacks.



The "set it and forget it education you get in regular schools"? Sorry,
I missed out on attending those sorts of schools. I remember a lot of
what I was taught in high school and most of what was covered in my
classes in college, and all my life I've built on that knowledge base.

I even remember funny incidents from classes. One of my electives in
college was German and the associate professor teaching it was a
native-born German whose ideas about World War II were really strange.
He wasn't a ex-Nazi, but he sure was intent on blaming every nation
*except* Germany for that war. He was an excellent teacher, though, and
just the sort of guy you'd want to have beers with on Fridays after the
last classes of the week.

One of the toughest courses I took as an undergrad, one that required a
lot of memorization, was "Shakespeare Rapid Reading." It was an upper
level class and by the time we got to it, most of the students had
already read virtually all of the plays, and simply had to reread them
and prepare an essay on each, which was no big deal for a bunch of
English majors, but the exams every other week were a real bitch. All
those plays, all those characters, all those plot twists, all those
recurring themes...it was like playing chess with a grand master. The
class was taught in one of the oldest buildings on campus, a large
structure built shortly after the Civil War. The steam pipe heating
system really cranked on those cold winter mornings, and many of us
wondered if they would explode and kill us all before we finished the
"required" class, or, if we survived, whether we'd have to repeat the
class in another building.

21 million...
 

On 6/19/2012 6:47 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 9:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:48:22 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

This sounds like "rote learning and memorization" to me: "18 weeks of a
8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time." Not much time to think about what you are
learning and contemplating possibilities.

This was a little different than the set it and forget it education
you get in regular schools. We lived this stuff. I had a side gig
tutoring a couple of the E5s that were in a rate change and
struggling. I wasn't paid but I got good duty.
Those boys were scared because the penalty for failing was a lot worse
for them. I spent a couple hours a night going over the day with
them.. They got me into Cappy's White Horse tavern for a beer after.
I also did not have to get up in the morning for jumping jacks.



The "set it and forget it education you get in regular schools"? Sorry,
I missed out on attending those sorts of schools. I remember a lot of
what I was taught in high school and most of what was covered in my
classes in college, and all my life I've built on that knowledge base.

I even remember funny incidents from classes. One of my electives in
college was German and the associate professor teaching it was a
native-born German whose ideas about World War II were really strange.
He wasn't a ex-Nazi, but he sure was intent on blaming every nation
*except* Germany for that war. He was an excellent teacher, though, and
just the sort of guy you'd want to have beers with on Fridays after the
last classes of the week.

One of the toughest courses I took as an undergrad, one that required a
lot of memorization, was "Shakespeare Rapid Reading." It was an upper
level class and by the time we got to it, most of the students had
already read virtually all of the plays, and simply had to reread them
and prepare an essay on each, which was no big deal for a bunch of
English majors, but the exams every other week were a real bitch. All
those plays, all those characters, all those plot twists, all those
recurring themes...it was like playing chess with a grand master. The
class was taught in one of the oldest buildings on campus, a large
structure built shortly after the Civil War. The steam pipe heating
system really cranked on those cold winter mornings, and many of us
wondered if they would explode and kill us all before we finished the
"required" class, or, if we survived, whether we'd have to repeat the
class in another building.


Funny how your short term memory fails and your long term memory is
sharp as a tack, when you get old.