On 5/29/12 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:47:10 -0400, wrote:


Simply and well stated facts.

Why Republicans Have It Wrong on the Economy
Guess what? Europe is officially back in a recession. Unemployment is
up, profits are down. But not here in America. Not yet anyway. And the
reason? While European countries inflicted huge cutbacks in government
jobs and services, American government invested in the private sector.

True, government jobs and services are on the downturn in the US, but
the difference is that while Europe exercised austerity measures,
America had a stimulus package.

Despite the hand wringing and protests from the right, the federal
government single-handedly saved the American auto industry. Had the
Republicans been in power in 2008 we would no longer have an auto
industry in America today. And millions more would be out of work.

What concerns me is that this could have a ripple effect on our economy.
Will Europe?s economic woes, based on Republican ideals of economic
austerity, translate into a recession here, despite our best efforts to
create an economy that is slowly but surely improving?

And Americans need to ask themselves if they are better off now than
they were at the end of the Bush regime. A regime that seems to have
brought down the world economy in the blink of an eye. They need to ask
themselves that question, because the answer is invariably ?Uh?.yeah.?


Europe resorted to austerity because they ran out of other people's
money to spend. That is going to happen to us too.
Entitlements and interest on the debt consumes every dollar we take
in. The rest is borrowed


There used to be a sort of equilibrium between the right wing's
rapaciousness and the determination of the lower and middle income
classes to climb up the ladder of success. But the rich have, for the
most part, cut the rungs off the bottom and middle of that ladder.
Without a strong middle class and the ability of the masses to achieve
it, there's little reason for this country to exist.

On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:50:31 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

Without a strong middle class and the ability of the masses to achieve
it, there's little reason for this country to exist.

===

What is your definition of middle class? Statistically there will
always be a middle as well as an upper and lower. Is middle class
defined by home ownership, multiple SUVs and smartphone accounts? Is
it defined by the television advertising media? Is it defined by
political rhetoric? Is it defined by middle class values and
behavior? Is it defined by blue color workers being able to live like
educated professionals?

On 5/29/2012 12:17 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:50:31 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

Without a strong middle class and the ability of the masses to achieve
it, there's little reason for this country to exist.

===

What is your definition of middle class? Statistically there will
always be a middle as well as an upper and lower. Is middle class
defined by home ownership, multiple SUVs and smartphone accounts? Is
it defined by the television advertising media? Is it defined by
political rhetoric? Is it defined by middle class values and
behavior? Is it defined by blue color workers being able to live like
educated professionals?


Those talking points were fed to him.
The answers to your questions aren't in his repertoire.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:50:31 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

Without a strong middle class and the ability of the masses to achieve
it, there's little reason for this country to exist.

===

What is your definition of middle class? Statistically there will
always be a middle as well as an upper and lower. Is middle class
defined by home ownership, multiple SUVs and smartphone accounts? Is
it defined by the television advertising media? Is it defined by
political rhetoric? Is it defined by middle class values and
behavior? Is it defined by blue color workers being able to live like
educated professionals?

Wayne, an interesting Wiki on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

On Tue, 29 May 2012 12:55:13 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:50:31 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

Without a strong middle class and the ability of the masses to achieve
it, there's little reason for this country to exist.

===

What is your definition of middle class? Statistically there will
always be a middle as well as an upper and lower. Is middle class
defined by home ownership, multiple SUVs and smartphone accounts? Is
it defined by the television advertising media? Is it defined by
political rhetoric? Is it defined by middle class values and
behavior? Is it defined by blue color workers being able to live like
educated professionals?

Wayne, an interesting Wiki on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

===

It's good to know that even the X ` Perts can't agree.

:-)

On 5/29/12 12:17 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:50:31 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

Without a strong middle class and the ability of the masses to achieve
it, there's little reason for this country to exist.

===

What is your definition of middle class? Statistically there will
always be a middle as well as an upper and lower. Is middle class
defined by home ownership, multiple SUVs and smartphone accounts? Is
it defined by the television advertising media? Is it defined by
political rhetoric? Is it defined by middle class values and
behavior? Is it defined by blue color workers being able to live like
educated professionals?



D'oh.

Why am I not surprised you don't know, Wayne? I doubt there is a
specific criteria for defining "middle class" that would satisfy most,
but, generally speaking, it includes having a secure and upwardly mobile
job; a clean, safe and stable home; easy access to and the ability to
pay for health care; retirement security: paid time away from work for
vacation, illness and the birth or adoption of a child; opportunities to
save for the future and the ability to provide a good education,
including a college education, for one's children. Income-wise,
depending upon household size, earnings, geographic location and age,
might be anywhere between $50,000 and $150,000, but those numbers may
vary wildly.

These days, that's more like modern socialism in Europe than what we
have in the United States. But it used to be that way here, before the
rich became even more greedy.

On Tue, 29 May 2012 14:10:47 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

But it used to be that way here, before the
rich became even more greedy.

===

There was certainly plenty of middle class greed during the "dot com"
bubble and the housing asset bubble. People who leveraged up those
investments with mortgage re-financing and home equity loans are the
ones who are now doing the most crying about loss of the middle class,
specifically "their" middle class. They should start out by giving up
their fancy leased cars/SUVs and buy a good used Toyota or Honda.

On 5/29/12 3:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2012 14:10:47 -0400, X `
wrote:

But it used to be that way here, before the
rich became even more greedy.

===

There was certainly plenty of middle class greed during the "dot com"
bubble and the housing asset bubble. People who leveraged up those
investments with mortgage re-financing and home equity loans are the
ones who are now doing the most crying about loss of the middle class,
specifically "their" middle class. They should start out by giving up
their fancy leased cars/SUVs and buy a good used Toyota or Honda.



And therein is the reason why I rarely respond to "inquiries" here, and
why I rarely post more than a sentence or two about boating. Why bother?
You and your fellow right-wing assholes have no interest in furthering
discussion in any sort of intellectual way. One sentence posts and
responses...that's what's called for in rec.boats.


How would *you* possibly know who is doing "the most crying" about the
loss of the middle class and why they are "crying," by the way? Have you
done a study? Have you seen a couple of opinionated URLs somewhere?
Oh, and who are you to make the sort of suggestions you have?

There are millions and millions of Americans suffering financially, not
because they were overleveraged, but because they were ****ed by Wall
Street, the banks, vulture capitalists, and corporations offshoring jobs.

On Tue, 29 May 2012 15:17:56 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

How would *you* possibly know who is doing "the most crying" about the
loss of the middle class and why they are "crying," by the way?

===

Easy, close friends and relatives.

On 5/29/12 3:30 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2012 15:17:56 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

How would *you* possibly know who is doing "the most crying" about the
loss of the middle class and why they are "crying," by the way?

===

Easy, close friends and relatives.



Oh...a scientific sampling.