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Floriduh
The state that elected a crook for governor sets a new standard for stupidity *and* hypocrisy. Matthew Dowd, President George W. Bush’s former chief strategist, on Sunday observed that the same conservative legislatures and governors who are championing so-called Christian values like prayer in schools are also pushing for dangerous gun laws that are counter to Christian teachings. During a panel on ABC, “Nightline” anchor Terry Moran noted that Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law gave officials cover to not arrest neighborhood watch vigilante George Zimmerman for killing Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old African American boy. “No other state has a law like this,” Moran explained. “Not only is it a ‘Stand Your Ground’ law — in the olden days under common law you had a duty to retreat. ‘Stand Your Ground’ says, no, you don’t have to. Florida goes one step farther. ‘Stand Your Ground’ is self defense — defense at trial. It would go to trial where the jury would figure out what happened.” “In Florida, the law says if you raise a claim of self defense after killing someone in public, you can’t even be arrested,” he added. “It’s why prosecutors and police hated this law. It sabotaged our justice system. All this discussion we’ve heard — What did Zimmerman do? What did Trayvon do? — Juries are supposed to figure that out. The Florida law destroys that American system.” “There is such irony about this,” Dowd agreed. “Most of the states that have passed this including Florida and the ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws and the expanded gun-ownership laws where you can carry a concealed weapon are also the same states and the same legislatures and the same governors who sort of pushed for prayer in the school.” Dowd continued: “To me, there is such and irony here, that we want to be a Christian nation and we want to act in a Christian manner, but oh, by the way, we don’t believe in the turn your other cheek and we don’t believe in love your enemy. We believe in loading citizens and basically giving them an opportunity to shoot people.” |
Floriduh
On Mar 25, 4:12*pm, jps wrote:
The state that elected a crook for governor sets a new standard for stupidity *and* hypocrisy. Matthew Dowd, President George W. Bush’s former chief strategist, on Sunday observed that the same conservative legislatures and governors who are championing so-called Christian values like prayer in schools are also pushing for dangerous gun laws that are counter to Christian teachings. During a panel on ABC, “Nightline” anchor Terry Moran noted that Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law gave officials cover to not arrest neighborhood watch vigilante George Zimmerman for killing Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old African American boy. “No other state has a law like this,” Moran explained. “Not only is it a ‘Stand Your Ground’ law — in the olden days under common law you had a duty to retreat. ‘Stand Your Ground’ says, no, you don’t have to. Florida goes one step farther. ‘Stand Your Ground’ is self defense — defense at trial. It would go to trial where the jury would figure out what happened.” “In Florida, the law says if you raise a claim of self defense after killing someone in public, you can’t even be arrested,” he added. “It’s why prosecutors and police hated this law. It sabotaged our justice system. All this discussion we’ve heard — What did Zimmerman do? What did Trayvon do? — Juries are supposed to figure that out. The Florida law destroys that American system.” “There is such irony about this,” Dowd agreed. “Most of the states that have passed this including Florida and the ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws and the expanded gun-ownership laws where you can carry a concealed weapon are also the same states and the same legislatures and the same governors who sort of pushed for prayer in the school.” Dowd continued: “To me, there is such and irony here, that we want to be a Christian nation and we want to act in a Christian manner, but oh, by the way, we don’t believe in the turn your other cheek and we don’t believe in love your enemy. We believe in loading citizens and basically giving them an opportunity to shoot people.” When you see the likes of some of this groups Florida residents, nothing surprises me. |
Floriduh
On 3/25/12 6:38 PM, North Star wrote:
On Mar 25, 4:12 pm, wrote: The state that elected a crook for governor sets a new standard for stupidity *and* hypocrisy. Matthew Dowd, President George W. Bush’s former chief strategist, on Sunday observed that the same conservative legislatures and governors who are championing so-called Christian values like prayer in schools are also pushing for dangerous gun laws that are counter to Christian teachings. During a panel on ABC, “Nightline” anchor Terry Moran noted that Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law gave officials cover to not arrest neighborhood watch vigilante George Zimmerman for killing Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old African American boy. “No other state has a law like this,” Moran explained. “Not only is it a ‘Stand Your Ground’ law — in the olden days under common law you had a duty to retreat. ‘Stand Your Ground’ says, no, you don’t have to. Florida goes one step farther. ‘Stand Your Ground’ is self defense — defense at trial. It would go to trial where the jury would figure out what happened.” “In Florida, the law says if you raise a claim of self defense after killing someone in public, you can’t even be arrested,” he added. “It’s why prosecutors and police hated this law. It sabotaged our justice system. All this discussion we’ve heard — What did Zimmerman do? What did Trayvon do? — Juries are supposed to figure that out. The Florida law destroys that American system.” “There is such irony about this,” Dowd agreed. “Most of the states that have passed this including Florida and the ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws and the expanded gun-ownership laws where you can carry a concealed weapon are also the same states and the same legislatures and the same governors who sort of pushed for prayer in the school.” Dowd continued: “To me, there is such and irony here, that we want to be a Christian nation and we want to act in a Christian manner, but oh, by the way, we don’t believe in the turn your other cheek and we don’t believe in love your enemy. We believe in loading citizens and basically giving them an opportunity to shoot people.” When you see the likes of some of this groups Florida residents, nothing surprises me. Many generations of marrying their sisters... |
Floriduh
On 3/25/2012 6:38 PM, North Star wrote:
On Mar 25, 4:12 pm, wrote: The state that elected a crook for governor sets a new standard for stupidity *and* hypocrisy. Matthew Dowd, President George W. Bush’s former chief strategist, on Sunday observed that the same conservative legislatures and governors who are championing so-called Christian values like prayer in schools are also pushing for dangerous gun laws that are counter to Christian teachings. During a panel on ABC, “Nightline” anchor Terry Moran noted that Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law gave officials cover to not arrest neighborhood watch vigilante George Zimmerman for killing Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old African American boy. “No other state has a law like this,” Moran explained. “Not only is it a ‘Stand Your Ground’ law — in the olden days under common law you had a duty to retreat. ‘Stand Your Ground’ says, no, you don’t have to. Florida goes one step farther. ‘Stand Your Ground’ is self defense — defense at trial. It would go to trial where the jury would figure out what happened.” “In Florida, the law says if you raise a claim of self defense after killing someone in public, you can’t even be arrested,” he added. “It’s why prosecutors and police hated this law. It sabotaged our justice system. All this discussion we’ve heard — What did Zimmerman do? What did Trayvon do? — Juries are supposed to figure that out. The Florida law destroys that American system.” “There is such irony about this,” Dowd agreed. “Most of the states that have passed this including Florida and the ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws and the expanded gun-ownership laws where you can carry a concealed weapon are also the same states and the same legislatures and the same governors who sort of pushed for prayer in the school.” Dowd continued: “To me, there is such and irony here, that we want to be a Christian nation and we want to act in a Christian manner, but oh, by the way, we don’t believe in the turn your other cheek and we don’t believe in love your enemy. We believe in loading citizens and basically giving them an opportunity to shoot people.” When you see the likes of some of this groups Florida residents, nothing surprises me. Go watch your paint peel, Dilbert. -- http://tinyurl.com/75bq9db |
Floriduh
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:38:11 -0700 (PDT), North Star
wrote: When you see the likes of some of this groups Florida residents, nothing surprises me. === Don, several of my neighbors are Canadians. They all seem to be fairly happy here in Florida and they get to go boating all winter long. What's not to like? |
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Floriduh
In article ,
says... On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:54:24 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:12:08 -0700, jps wrote: I think there are a lot of people who are lynching this guy without hearing a word of testimony from the defendant. If that is justice in the other 49 states, stay there. The fact remains that a spokesman for the Sanford Police has said none of the "revelations" we have heard are inconsistent with Zimmerman's story. I am going to wait for the FBI report. That is why they are there, but if what Plouffe said on MTP this morning is an indication, Martin may have been the attacker and Zimmerman may have been trying to retreat. Will you feel the same way if it is determined that Zimmerman was on his back on the ground with Martin pummeling him when the shot was fired. That is also consistent with what the witnesses have said. You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. There is nothing wrong with the stand your ground law. Ther is something wrong with Zimmerman. |
Floriduh
On Mar 25, 10:48*pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:38:11 -0700 (PDT), North Star wrote: When you see the likes of some of this groups Florida residents, nothing surprises me. === Don, several of my neighbors are Canadians. *They all seem to be fairly happy here in Florida and they get to go boating all winter long. What's not to like? Lucky you........ You could be living next door to someone like 'Oscar' rather than agreeable Canadians. ;-) |
Floriduh
On 3/26/2012 9:17 AM, North Star wrote:
On Mar 25, 10:48 pm, Wayne wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:38:11 -0700 (PDT), North Star wrote: When you see the likes of some of this groups Florida residents, nothing surprises me. === Don, several of my neighbors are Canadians. They all seem to be fairly happy here in Florida and they get to go boating all winter long. What's not to like? Lucky you........ You could be living next door to someone like 'Oscar' rather than agreeable Canadians. ;-) Oscar is agreeable. And yes, those young Canadian wimmins he had encounters with were most agreeable. -- http://tinyurl.com/75bq9db |
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Floriduh
On 3/26/12 12:46 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 3/26/2012 12:03 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Once you have shaprton and farakahn involved, it can be noting else. Neither one can pass up an opportunity to make a few dollars, a few speeches, and stay at some nifty hotels... You really need to keep your moron instincts at bay, little toad. |
Floriduh
On 3/26/2012 12:17 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 3/26/12 12:03 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Zimmerman murdered a kid wearing a hooded sweatshirt and carrying a soft drink and a bag of candy. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence that the kid was in any way threatening the shooter. In fact, the evidence to date indicates the kid was chatting on his cellphone with his girlfriend. The "stand your ground" law in Florida is nothing more than a payoff to the NRA, and it leads to homicides in which it is difficult if not impossible to prosecute the perpetrators. There is no need for stand your ground laws. If someone breaks into your house, you can shoot him in Florida. If you can fog a mirror, you can get a carry permit in Florida. If you are seriously threatened on the street, and let the prosecutors try to prove you weren't defending yourself. It's a stupid law and it needs to be trashed. If we had such a law up here and a loud-mouthed troublemaker like one of our short posters here walked into my hard, I could shoot and kill him and claim I felt threatened, no matter whether I felt that way or not, even if he were "armed" with nothing more than a can of soda and a bag of chips. That's not the way a civilized society is supposed to be. If someone gains entry to your house by breaking in, Are you going to shoot him? A simple yes or no will do. -- http://tinyurl.com/75bq9db |
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Floriduh
On 3/26/2012 2:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:17:55 -0400, X ` Man wrote: On 3/26/12 12:03 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Zimmerman murdered a kid wearing a hooded sweatshirt and carrying a soft drink and a bag of candy. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence that the kid was in any way threatening the shooter. In fact, the evidence to date indicates the kid was chatting on his cellphone with his girlfriend. Martin's last words in that chat are Martin challenging Zimmerman, If you are seriously threatened on the street, and let the prosecutors try to prove you weren't defending yourself. What the defense is going to say. This may not be a stand your ground case at all. The original self defense law says "fear imminent bodily "harm" (not death)" Zimmerman sustained bodily harm. How long would you and the rest of the pistolaros here tolerate someone over you beating you up while you are on your back on the ground. The physical evidence and all of the witness statements are consistent with that story. Witness says White shirt on top of another guy who is crying like a child and getting pummeled Evidence shows Grass and dirt on the back of Zimmernans RED shirt, Martin's WHITE hoodie, the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head and the bloody nose. Martin's father said that was not his son's voice on the 911 call. I am still waiting to see what all of this investigation turns up but those are the facts as I have seen them. I know it is tragic when anyone dies but actions have consequences. If martin attacked Zimmerman for following him, this is not what has been presented in the media and they will need to walk back a lot of this rhetoric. It is unlikely that the Florida courts would find him guilty even that they return an indictment unless we find out a whole lot more than we know now. Did Martin have any injuries indicating Zimmerman hit him? Was his hoodie dirty? What was the bullet trajectory? Are there any more witnesses or even a video? At the end of the day it is up to the prosecutor to prove, without a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman's story is not true, That is a tough hill to climb with the evidence we have seen so far. I suppose Holder could prosecute him for a thought crime but that is what it would be. Great level headed write up Greg... |
Floriduh
On Monday, March 26, 2012 2:22:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:17:55 -0400, X ` Man wrote: On 3/26/12 12:03 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Zimmerman murdered a kid wearing a hooded sweatshirt and carrying a soft drink and a bag of candy. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence that the kid was in any way threatening the shooter. In fact, the evidence to date indicates the kid was chatting on his cellphone with his girlfriend.. Martin's last words in that chat are Martin challenging Zimmerman, If you are seriously threatened on the street, and let the prosecutors try to prove you weren't defending yourself. What the defense is going to say. This may not be a stand your ground case at all. The original self defense law says "fear imminent bodily "harm" (not death)" Zimmerman sustained bodily harm. How long would you and the rest of the pistolaros here tolerate someone over you beating you up while you are on your back on the ground. The physical evidence and all of the witness statements are consistent with that story. Witness says White shirt on top of another guy who is crying like a child and getting pummeled Evidence shows Grass and dirt on the back of Zimmernans RED shirt, Martin's WHITE hoodie, the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head and the bloody nose. Martin's father said that was not his son's voice on the 911 call. I am still waiting to see what all of this investigation turns up but those are the facts as I have seen them. I know it is tragic when anyone dies but actions have consequences. If martin attacked Zimmerman for following him, this is not what has been presented in the media and they will need to walk back a lot of this rhetoric. It is unlikely that the Florida courts would find him guilty even that they return an indictment unless we find out a whole lot more than we know now. Did Martin have any injuries indicating Zimmerman hit him? Was his hoodie dirty? What was the bullet trajectory? Are there any more witnesses or even a video? At the end of the day it is up to the prosecutor to prove, without a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman's story is not true, That is a tough hill to climb with the evidence we have seen so far. I suppose Holder could prosecute him for a thought crime but that is what it would be. The MSM just loves to sensationlize this kind of stuff, and they are good at it. Just look at the NG fish they have already convinced that the incident happened a certain way, when the facts are not even known yet. We had an infamous incident a few years ago where a young girl that had been missing for a few days suddenly showed up, claimimg to have been kidnapped and held at an underground bunker by some guy that lived nearby. The guy and the bunker were real, so the media declared him guilty on a dfaily basis and the general public demanded swift "justice". Only problem was... after some time went by and the investigation got serious, the girl's story fell apart. She finally admitted that she'd just run away from home, broke into the bunker, and hid out there until she realized she'd screwed up. So she fabricated the story and staged the "getaway" to cover her butt. Of course at that point, the guy was an outcast and had pretty much lost everything. At least they sold some papers and the evening news ratings went up. |
Floriduh
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:56:05 -0400, X ` Man wrote:
On 3/26/12 12:46 PM, JustWait wrote: On 3/26/2012 12:03 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Once you have shaprton and farakahn involved, it can be noting else. Neither one can pass up an opportunity to make a few dollars, a few speeches, and stay at some nifty hotels... You really need to keep your moron instincts at bay, little toad. Your level of immaturity is showing again, Harry. |
Floriduh
On 3/26/12 3:59 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:56:05 -0400, X ` wrote: On 3/26/12 12:46 PM, JustWait wrote: On 3/26/2012 12:03 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Once you have shaprton and farakahn involved, it can be noting else. Neither one can pass up an opportunity to make a few dollars, a few speeches, and stay at some nifty hotels... You really need to keep your moron instincts at bay, little toad. Your level of immaturity is showing again, Harry. Uh-huh. The guy is a moron, period. As for your opinions, I give them all the consideration they deserve. |
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Floriduh
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:22:41 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:17:55 -0400, X ` Man wrote: On 3/26/12 12:03 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Zimmerman murdered a kid wearing a hooded sweatshirt and carrying a soft drink and a bag of candy. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence that the kid was in any way threatening the shooter. In fact, the evidence to date indicates the kid was chatting on his cellphone with his girlfriend. Martin's last words in that chat are Martin challenging Zimmerman, If you are seriously threatened on the street, and let the prosecutors try to prove you weren't defending yourself. What the defense is going to say. This may not be a stand your ground case at all. The original self defense law says "fear imminent bodily "harm" (not death)" Zimmerman sustained bodily harm. How long would you and the rest of the pistolaros here tolerate someone over you beating you up while you are on your back on the ground. The physical evidence and all of the witness statements are consistent with that story. Witness says White shirt on top of another guy who is crying like a child and getting pummeled Evidence shows Grass and dirt on the back of Zimmernans RED shirt, Martin's WHITE hoodie, the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head and the bloody nose. Martin's father said that was not his son's voice on the 911 call. I am still waiting to see what all of this investigation turns up but those are the facts as I have seen them. I know it is tragic when anyone dies but actions have consequences. If martin attacked Zimmerman for following him, this is not what has been presented in the media and they will need to walk back a lot of this rhetoric. It is unlikely that the Florida courts would find him guilty even that they return an indictment unless we find out a whole lot more than we know now. Did Martin have any injuries indicating Zimmerman hit him? Was his hoodie dirty? What was the bullet trajectory? Are there any more witnesses or even a video? At the end of the day it is up to the prosecutor to prove, without a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman's story is not true, That is a tough hill to climb with the evidence we have seen so far. I suppose Holder could prosecute him for a thought crime but that is what it would be. All one needs to know is that Zimmerman pursued the eventual victim, after being told to stand down and wait for police. He was not sanctioned or working on behalf of any organized neighborhood program. He as carrying a weapon which is expressly forbiden by any neighborhood watch programs. This fat **** needed to stay in his car. A 17 year old kid would be alive and no one would want to skin his fat ass alive. |
Floriduh
On 3/26/12 4:44 PM, jps wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:03:24 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Uh, methinks the lynching already occured. Funny choice of words you've made. The "defenders" of the shooter have had plenty of time to get together and "align" their stories. Among other things, the "stand your ground" law needs to be repealed. But, of course, it is Florida, which in recent years has become as backwards as Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, and Virginia. What might work is a nationwide boycott of traveling to Florida for vacations until "stand your ground" is repealed. |
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Floriduh
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:40:07 -0400, X ` Man
wrote: On 3/26/12 2:25 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:08:31 -0400, wrote: If someone gains entry to your house by breaking in, Are you going to shoot him? A simple yes or no will do. A more relevant question is if Harry got out of his car to get a better look at a street sign in the rain and some 17 year old jumped him because the kid didn't like the way Harry was looking at him, would Harry shoot? I've been getting out of cars in the rain in bad neighborhoods for more than 40 years. So far, no one has "jumped" me, so it isn't something about which I worry. You're not paranoid. You have no idea how paranoid whities feel. |
Floriduh
On 3/26/12 4:52 PM, jps wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:40:07 -0400, X ` Man wrote: On 3/26/12 2:25 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:08:31 -0400, wrote: If someone gains entry to your house by breaking in, Are you going to shoot him? A simple yes or no will do. A more relevant question is if Harry got out of his car to get a better look at a street sign in the rain and some 17 year old jumped him because the kid didn't like the way Harry was looking at him, would Harry shoot? I've been getting out of cars in the rain in bad neighborhoods for more than 40 years. So far, no one has "jumped" me, so it isn't something about which I worry.. You're not paranoid. You have no idea how paranoid whities feel. Oh, I have an idea of their insanity...Republican candidates, Republican talking heads, Republican teabaggers, bat**** crazy & stupid candidates like Palin, Bachmann, Santorum... |
Floriduh
On 3/26/2012 4:48 PM, jps wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:22:41 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:17:55 -0400, X ` Man wrote: On 3/26/12 12:03 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:48:58 -0700, wrote: You're backwards from what I've read. It was Martin that was calling for help and Zimmerman who was doing the straddling. The guy in the white shirt (hoodie?)was on top. Zimmerman had a red shirt Whatever the case, Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for officers to arrive. He was told "we don't NEED you to do that". Not "don't do that" or even we don't "want" you to do that. Stand your ground will not be a successful defense and will get overturned in your state legislature. Bad, stupid law. If Zimmerman's story is right, he wasn't standing his ground, he was trying to get back in his truck. (retreating) That is why I am waiting to see what the FBI says. We have had a lot of people using inflammatory rhetoric without hearing one defense witness or even hearing the defendant's story. That is not justice. It is a lynching Zimmerman murdered a kid wearing a hooded sweatshirt and carrying a soft drink and a bag of candy. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence that the kid was in any way threatening the shooter. In fact, the evidence to date indicates the kid was chatting on his cellphone with his girlfriend. Martin's last words in that chat are Martin challenging Zimmerman, If you are seriously threatened on the street, and let the prosecutors try to prove you weren't defending yourself. What the defense is going to say. This may not be a stand your ground case at all. The original self defense law says "fear imminent bodily "harm" (not death)" Zimmerman sustained bodily harm. How long would you and the rest of the pistolaros here tolerate someone over you beating you up while you are on your back on the ground. The physical evidence and all of the witness statements are consistent with that story. Witness says White shirt on top of another guy who is crying like a child and getting pummeled Evidence shows Grass and dirt on the back of Zimmernans RED shirt, Martin's WHITE hoodie, the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head and the bloody nose. Martin's father said that was not his son's voice on the 911 call. I am still waiting to see what all of this investigation turns up but those are the facts as I have seen them. I know it is tragic when anyone dies but actions have consequences. If martin attacked Zimmerman for following him, this is not what has been presented in the media and they will need to walk back a lot of this rhetoric. It is unlikely that the Florida courts would find him guilty even that they return an indictment unless we find out a whole lot more than we know now. Did Martin have any injuries indicating Zimmerman hit him? Was his hoodie dirty? What was the bullet trajectory? Are there any more witnesses or even a video? At the end of the day it is up to the prosecutor to prove, without a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman's story is not true, That is a tough hill to climb with the evidence we have seen so far. I suppose Holder could prosecute him for a thought crime but that is what it would be. All one needs to know is that Zimmerman pursued the eventual victim, after being told to stand down and wait for police. He was not sanctioned or working on behalf of any organized neighborhood program. He as carrying a weapon which is expressly forbiden by any neighborhood watch programs. This fat **** needed to stay in his car. A 17 year old kid would be alive and no one would want to skin his fat ass alive. So, you feel that the best way to handle someone following you is to approach them and begin to beat the **** out of them? Zimmerman is probably guilty of several crimes including and not limited to unlawful restraint, threatening, harassing, etc. If the evidence comes back that he just shot Trayvon Martin or shot him while holding him at gunpoint, he is probably guilty of at least second degree murder. Any and all of these could change even more if it turns out Zimmerman had a racial motive as the New Black Panthers have already decided. If it turns out Martin attacked Zimmerman for following him, Zimmerman might be guilty of firearms violations in the situation of self defence... We just don't know yet. Those of you racists who have already decided, show your ignorance and hate, each time you so blatantly want to throw the law and the constitution under the bus for the sake of an emotional feel good speech... Personally, I think Zimmerman is *probably* guilty of several felonies related to the firearm, probably guilty of knowingly putting himself into a situation where it was very likely he was going to commit murder, and very well *could be* guilty of some sort of racial hate crime or at least race could have been a factor in the outcome of the night. That is to say, I wonder if a white kid would have ended up getting shot... I also note that if Martin had not been killed, it's not clear that he would have not had charges against him too. This could be a case of an over-reaction, followed by an over-reaction, followed by an over-reaction. Zimmerman over reacted by chasing Martin Martin over reacted by attacking Zimmerman Zimmerman over reacted by shooting Martin In the end, Zimmermann is probably way more "wrong" even if Martin had not been shot. I know, a rational, non-bigoted look at the situation based on the very limited evidence we have available... |
Floriduh
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Floriduh
On 3/26/12 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:31:51 -0400, wrote: In , says... Watching someone from your truck is not pursuit, it is watching. If it turns out Martin approached the truck, he was the pursuer. When Zimmerman got out of his truck he initiated pursuit. Zimmerman could have driven away and let the police handle the situation. Zimmerman escalated the situation which resulted in Martin's death. Zimmerman says he never approached or pursued Martin, he got out of the truck to read a road sign. You can't fault a teenager for looking into a car, it is what they do. When you have had dozens of car burglaries, that is suspicious. The transcript from the gir;lfriend seems to support that. The initial contact was Martin confronting Zimmerman in that call. You mean Martin confronted a man who got of his car and pursued Martin. Zimmerman is the adult in this whole situation and he should have shown better judgment. There is no evidence that Zimmerman ever approached Martin. It appears the opposite is true. He says he was jumped from behind. Of course he says that. And you believe him. |
Floriduh
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Floriduh
On 3/26/2012 10:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:10:47 -0400, X ` Man wrote: On 3/26/12 9:01 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:31:51 -0400, wrote: In , says... Watching someone from your truck is not pursuit, it is watching. If it turns out Martin approached the truck, he was the pursuer. When Zimmerman got out of his truck he initiated pursuit. Zimmerman could have driven away and let the police handle the situation. Zimmerman escalated the situation which resulted in Martin's death. Zimmerman says he never approached or pursued Martin, he got out of the truck to read a road sign. You can't fault a teenager for looking into a car, it is what they do. When you have had dozens of car burglaries, that is suspicious. The transcript from the gir;lfriend seems to support that. The initial contact was Martin confronting Zimmerman in that call. You mean Martin confronted a man who got of his car and pursued Martin. Zimmerman is the adult in this whole situation and he should have shown better judgment. There is no evidence that Zimmerman ever approached Martin. It appears the opposite is true. He says he was jumped from behind. Of course he says that. And you believe him. The Sanford Police believe him and a few of us are still willing to wait to see if the FBI believes him. It is the people who have already made up their mind that he chased Martin down and shot him (some even believe, in the back) who are doing the lynching. Nobody Believes Martin was shot in the back, but bigots and racists will say it anyway because it suits their agenda. The hypocrisy is in their willingness to take away a citizens rights in the name of someone elses... People on the left came to this story with the same kind of prejudice that was common 60 years ago in Mississippi when a black man killed a white man. |
Floriduh
On 3/26/12 10:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:10:47 -0400, X ` Man wrote: On 3/26/12 9:01 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:31:51 -0400, wrote: In , says... Watching someone from your truck is not pursuit, it is watching. If it turns out Martin approached the truck, he was the pursuer. When Zimmerman got out of his truck he initiated pursuit. Zimmerman could have driven away and let the police handle the situation. Zimmerman escalated the situation which resulted in Martin's death. Zimmerman says he never approached or pursued Martin, he got out of the truck to read a road sign. You can't fault a teenager for looking into a car, it is what they do. When you have had dozens of car burglaries, that is suspicious. The transcript from the gir;lfriend seems to support that. The initial contact was Martin confronting Zimmerman in that call. You mean Martin confronted a man who got of his car and pursued Martin. Zimmerman is the adult in this whole situation and he should have shown better judgment. There is no evidence that Zimmerman ever approached Martin. It appears the opposite is true. He says he was jumped from behind. Of course he says that. And you believe him. The Sanford Police believe him and a few of us are still willing to wait to see if the FBI believes him. It is the people who have already made up their mind that he chased Martin down and shot him (some even believe, in the back) who are doing the lynching. People on the left came to this story with the same kind of prejudice that was common 60 years ago in Mississippi when a black man killed a white man. The Sanford police have a long history of anti-black prejudice. Even the chief, now on paid leave, admits that. |
Floriduh
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Floriduh
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Floriduh
On 3/27/2012 7:28 AM, BAR wrote:
In , says... On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:48:40 -0700, wrote: All one needs to know is that Zimmerman pursued the eventual victim, after being told to stand down and wait for police. Not true. The exact words were "we don't NEED you to do that". There was never a comment that he shouldn't. This fat **** needed to stay in his car. A 17 year old kid would be alive and no one would want to skin his fat ass alive. If the kid had just kept walking he would be alive too but he chose to turn around and attack Zimmerman because he did not like the way he was looking at him. The kid would have been still been alive is Zimmerman had not gotten out of his vehicle and pursued the kid. Zimmerman initiated the entire incident. Too much bull**** to know that... First off, Zimmerman is not "white" as the New York Lies suggests, and why do they keep showing three year old pictures of Martin? Could it be that he is a lot bigger and more imposing now? The media has not given any of you the facts, that's why the FBI is in there... Hopefully Holder's racist Dept of Justice for Black Panthers and associates doesn't get any more involved, that's just campaign hookeybookey... |
Floriduh
On 3/27/12 7:55 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 3/27/2012 7:28 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:48:40 -0700, wrote: All one needs to know is that Zimmerman pursued the eventual victim, after being told to stand down and wait for police. Not true. The exact words were "we don't NEED you to do that". There was never a comment that he shouldn't. This fat **** needed to stay in his car. A 17 year old kid would be alive and no one would want to skin his fat ass alive. If the kid had just kept walking he would be alive too but he chose to turn around and attack Zimmerman because he did not like the way he was looking at him. The kid would have been still been alive is Zimmerman had not gotten out of his vehicle and pursued the kid. Zimmerman initiated the entire incident. Too much bull**** to know that... First off, Zimmerman is not "white" as the New York Lies suggests, and why do they keep showing three year old pictures of Martin? Could it be that he is a lot bigger and more imposing now? The media has not given any of you the facts, that's why the FBI is in there... Hopefully Holder's racist Dept of Justice for Black Panthers and associates doesn't get any more involved, that's just campaign hookeybookey... You know, Little Toad, these "portraits" you offer up of how your "mind" works are fascinating. Do you ever read what you post before you post? 1. There have been "newer" photos of the murder victim show. I don't know whether I've seen one of him taken in the last six months. His height and weight, however, have been disclosed. The victim was much smaller than the murderer. 2. The FBI is not involved in the case now because "the media" has not given us the facts. As a point of fact, plenty of facts about this tragedy have been disclosed by the media. 3. On the one hand, you seem to like the idea that the FBI is involved because you claim the media has not given up the facts and on the other hand you call the Department of Justice (and therefore the FBI, which is part of the DOJ) racist. 4. Gotta love your insane "affiliation" of the DOJ with the Black Panthers. You really need to wean yourself off the bat**** crazy right-wing propaganda channels and websites. |
Floriduh
On 3/27/2012 8:15 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 3/27/12 7:55 AM, JustWait wrote: On 3/27/2012 7:28 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:48:40 -0700, wrote: All one needs to know is that Zimmerman pursued the eventual victim, after being told to stand down and wait for police. Not true. The exact words were "we don't NEED you to do that". There was never a comment that he shouldn't. This fat **** needed to stay in his car. A 17 year old kid would be alive and no one would want to skin his fat ass alive. If the kid had just kept walking he would be alive too but he chose to turn around and attack Zimmerman because he did not like the way he was looking at him. The kid would have been still been alive is Zimmerman had not gotten out of his vehicle and pursued the kid. Zimmerman initiated the entire incident. Too much bull**** to know that... First off, Zimmerman is not "white" as the New York Lies suggests, and why do they keep showing three year old pictures of Martin? Could it be that he is a lot bigger and more imposing now? The media has not given any of you the facts, that's why the FBI is in there... Hopefully Holder's racist Dept of Justice for Black Panthers and associates doesn't get any more involved, that's just campaign hookeybookey... You know, Little Toad, You know you fat ass piece of dog ****... I don't read your posts... |
Floriduh
On 3/27/12 8:21 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 3/27/2012 8:15 AM, X ` Man wrote: On 3/27/12 7:55 AM, JustWait wrote: On 3/27/2012 7:28 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:48:40 -0700, wrote: All one needs to know is that Zimmerman pursued the eventual victim, after being told to stand down and wait for police. Not true. The exact words were "we don't NEED you to do that". There was never a comment that he shouldn't. This fat **** needed to stay in his car. A 17 year old kid would be alive and no one would want to skin his fat ass alive. If the kid had just kept walking he would be alive too but he chose to turn around and attack Zimmerman because he did not like the way he was looking at him. The kid would have been still been alive is Zimmerman had not gotten out of his vehicle and pursued the kid. Zimmerman initiated the entire incident. Too much bull**** to know that... First off, Zimmerman is not "white" as the New York Lies suggests, and why do they keep showing three year old pictures of Martin? Could it be that he is a lot bigger and more imposing now? The media has not given any of you the facts, that's why the FBI is in there... Hopefully Holder's racist Dept of Justice for Black Panthers and associates doesn't get any more involved, that's just campaign hookeybookey... You know, Little Toad, You know you fat ass piece of dog ****... I don't read your posts... Bull****. |
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