On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:10:01 -0800, jps wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:56:59 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:15:03 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 11/30/11 2:02 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:43:31 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

What can you threaten the many unemployed drug users with?

===

If they consent to being sent off to an island somewhere, we should
give them all the free drugs they want. If they don't consent, jail.


Good solution for the corporation execs

===

Too bad you never achieved any success in the corporate world Harry.
Maybe you should have worked a little harder and chucked some of your
personality issues?

"the corporate world" is a world most of the participants can't wait
to escape. What happens there has little to do with business and lots
to do with manipulation, maneuvering, keeping one's head below the
horizon and getting out with something to speak of.

Entrepreneurship is where people with balls, perseverance and the will
to succeed end up.

Sounds like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, and a whole slew of other entrepreneurs.

On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:10:01 -0800, jps wrote:

If they consent to being sent off to an island somewhere, we should
give them all the free drugs they want. If they don't consent, jail.


Good solution for the corporation execs

===

Too bad you never achieved any success in the corporate world Harry.
Maybe you should have worked a little harder and chucked some of your
personality issues?

"the corporate world" is a world most of the participants can't wait
to escape. What happens there has little to do with business and lots
to do with manipulation, maneuvering, keeping one's head below the
horizon and getting out with something to speak of.

Entrepreneurship is where people with balls, perseverance and the will
to succeed end up.

===

No problem here with entrepreneurship. If you succeed at it you
become a corporate exec. Some of the very best corporations in this
country are managed as a collection of smaller entrepreneurships.

On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:15:27 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

I was a "successful" employee at several corporations

========

If you had been successful you'd be collecting a pension now.

On 12/1/11 8:35 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:15:27 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

I was a "successful" employee at several corporations

========

If you had been successful you'd be collecting a pension now.



Hehehe. Poor w'hine.

--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug

On 12/1/11 8:35 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:15:27 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

I was a "successful" employee at several corporations

========

If you had been successful you'd be collecting a pension now.




Actually, W'hine, that's not necessarily true for many people. There's
no shortage of successful corporate employees who were screwed by the
corporations for which they worked and no shortage of successful
corporate employees who were screwed out of their pensions by the
corporations for which they worked.

Here's an example: Chesley Sullenberger

Sully's pay was cut by his corporate employer, and he lost more than
half his corporate pension benefits.

Name not familar? Sullenberger rose to fame when he successfully ditched
US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River off Manhattan, New York City,
on January 15, 2009, saving the lives of all 155 people on the aircraft.

Sully has spoken publicly about how corporate employees in the airline
industry have been screwed out of pay, benefits, and pensions.

On 12/1/11 8:56 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 12/1/11 8:35 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:15:27 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

I was a "successful" employee at several corporations

========

If you had been successful you'd be collecting a pension now.




Actually, W'hine, that's not necessarily true for many people. There's
no shortage of successful corporate employees who were screwed by the
corporations for which they worked and no shortage of successful
corporate employees who were screwed out of their pensions by the
corporations for which they worked.

Here's an example: Chesley Sullenberger

Sully's pay was cut by his corporate employer, and he lost more than
half his corporate pension benefits.

Name not familar? Sullenberger rose to fame when he successfully ditched
US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River off Manhattan, New York City,
on January 15, 2009, saving the lives of all 155 people on the aircraft.

Sully has spoken publicly about how corporate employees in the airline
industry have been screwed out of pay, benefits, and pensions.




Here you go, w'hine...corporate management at its best:

American Airlines workers face pension plight
Photo
Wed, Nov 30 2011

By Jilian Mincer

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Millions of Americans remember US Airways pilot
Chesley B. "Sully" Sullenberger III. In 2009, he became an instant hero
for saving 155 lives by landing on New York City's Hudson River when his
aircraft lost power after it was struck by birds shortly after taking off.

But few know that - like thousands of other airline employees -
Sullenberger was struggling financially at the time because two US
Airways bankruptcies had derailed his pension and slashed his salary 40
percent.

"We had saved some money, but not enough to make up for everything we
were losing," says Sullenberger, who has since become a successful
author, consultant and volunteer.

His fellow pilots were mostly in their late 40s or 50s, he says. "We
didn't have a lot of time to regain what we had lost."

Soon, roughly 130,000 workers - along with retirees - at American
Airlines and parent AMR Corp could face similar difficulties. On
Tuesday, American became the last major domestic airline to file for
bankruptcy protection. The airline has not announced yet whether it
plans to unload its pension, but the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp
estimated on Tuesday that its four plans are $10 billion underfunded.

American Airlines spokesman Tim Smith says a Chapter 11 reorganization
"does not necessarily mean that" a company will terminate its four
plans, which collectively have about $8.3 billion in assets, according
to the PBGC.

"American's pension and retiree medical plans are very expensive. The
company spends more on them than our competitors," he says. "These costs
and many other factors are considerations when deciding to continue
these benefits."

Other airlines, including United, Delta Air Lines Inc and US Airways
Group Inc, abandoned their pensions in recent years when filing for
bankruptcy, costing the PBGC more than $11 billion.

"It's too soon to say what American will do," says Marc Hopkins, a
spokesman for the agency.

But the PBGC estimates employees and retirees could lose $1 billion in
pension benefits if it has to take over the plans.

That is because annual benefits are capped if the agency assumes
responsibility for a pension plan. The limit is $54,000 for employees
whose companies drop their plans in 2011. While that is enough to cover
most benefit payments, more than 20 percent of airline workers were
affected by the cap in the past, according to a 2008 PBGC study of 17
airline plans between 1990 and 2005.

Bob Coffman, an American captain who is also chairman of Allied Pilots
Association's government affairs committee, says the union and airline
are still negotiating future benefits.

Most experts agree that employees will likely receive only self-funded
401(k) benefits, which are different from company sponsored pension
benefits. Until now, American employees have had a 401(k) option, as
well as the pension plan and a second defined contribution plan, which
was funded by the plan company.

Employees were notified on Tuesday that future retirees can no longer
get a lump sum distribution because the plan is now underfunded.
However, those who retired this fall -- including more than 300 pilots
-- could still receive their lump-sum pension distributions.

That is a relief for American Airlines Captain Rod Carlone, 61, who
retired sooner than he planned in October, primarily because he wanted a
lump-sum payout. The typical distribution for a captain with about 30
years experience is about $1 million, according to Allied Pilots
Association.

"I look like a genius now," says Carlone, who lives in Las Vegas, Nevada.

But for him the decision to retire was simpler than it might be for
colleagues paying for college or not old enough to leave the workforce.

"A lot of guys have to be hurting really bad," Carlone says of some of
his colleagues.

Captain Joel Jeppson made a similar decision. The 61-year-old retired on
October 1 after 33 years with American.

"It was tough to walk away," says Jeppson, who lives near Dallas, Texas.
"I was going to fly until at least 62 and maybe slow down then. I'm in
great health and I love the job."

Jeppson, who is still waiting for his lump sum distribution check to
arrive, says he is fretting about the status of former colleagues.

"I've got several friends that selected to stick around and I'm sure
they're not feeling too good about it. I'm more worried about what the
bankruptcy courts decide for the people who are already retired," he says.

Coffman, who has been with American for 23 years, knows his benefits
will change, but at age 53, he has more time than older colleagues to
save for retirement. While the bankruptcy is tragic, the company has
been struggling and this could help American rebuild, he says.

Coffman compares the situation to the training pilots receive about
handling an engine fire. Pilots are taught to anticipate a problem but
cannot act on it until it occurs.

"To an extent, this is a very similar," says Coffman, who is based in
Miami. "There is no longer anxiety about whether the company will enter
Chapter 11. Now we have a path, rather than worrying about decision."

American's bankruptcy filing was sad news, says Sullenberger, who can
relate to what is happening.

A day before the fateful 2009 flight, Sullenberger talked with his wife
about selling their home to save money. He planned to fly until he was
at least 65 -- the mandatory retirement age -- and then get another job
to make up for his pension and income loss.

"You can imagine how hard that would be at 65 for someone who had worked
a professional career as a pilot," Sullenberger says. "Where would you
go? What would you do? Tens of thousands are facing this, and not just
in the airline industry."

--


Nothing like giving your life to a corporation that, in the ends, screws
you, eh, w'hine?

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 11/30/11 10:56 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:15:03 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 11/30/11 2:02 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:43:31 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

What can you threaten the many unemployed drug users with?

===

If they consent to being sent off to an island somewhere, we should
give them all the free drugs they want. If they don't consent, jail.


Good solution for the corporation execs

=== c
Too bad you never achieved any success in the corporate world Harry.
Maybe you should have worked a little harder and chucked some of your
personality issues?


D'oh. I was a "successful" employee at several corporations, whine.
About halfway through my career days, after more than a decade of
dealing with corporate pukes like you, I decided to give up the security
blanket of "corporate life" and strike out on my own.
I guess you never had the balls to do that, eh? And you're still a herd
animal.



http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug

HK&A was founded when???

In article ,
says...

On 12/1/11 8:35 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:15:27 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

I was a "successful" employee at several corporations

========

If you had been successful you'd be collecting a pension now.




Actually, W'hine, that's not necessarily true for many people. There's
no shortage of successful corporate employees who were screwed by the
corporations for which they worked and no shortage of successful
corporate employees who were screwed out of their pensions by the
corporations for which they worked.

Here's an example: Chesley Sullenberger

Sully's pay was cut by his corporate employer, and he lost more than
half his corporate pension benefits.

Name not familar? Sullenberger rose to fame when he successfully ditched
US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River off Manhattan, New York City,
on January 15, 2009, saving the lives of all 155 people on the aircraft.

Sully has spoken publicly about how corporate employees in the airline
industry have been screwed out of pay, benefits, and pensions.

And this pertains to YOU how?

On 12/1/2011 6:15 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 11/30/11 10:56 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:15:03 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 11/30/11 2:02 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:43:31 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

What can you threaten the many unemployed drug users with?

===

If they consent to being sent off to an island somewhere, we should
give them all the free drugs they want. If they don't consent, jail.


Good solution for the corporation execs

=== c
Too bad you never achieved any success in the corporate world Harry.
Maybe you should have worked a little harder and chucked some of your
personality issues?


D'oh. I was a "successful" employee at several corporations, whine.
About halfway through my career days, after more than a decade of
dealing with corporate pukes like you, I decided to give up the security
blanket of "corporate life" and strike out on my own.
I guess you never had the balls to do that, eh? And you're still a herd
animal.



http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug

10 years, several jobs, successful? Wah HA HA!

--
1-20-13 The end of an error

On 12/1/2011 9:01 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 12/1/11 8:56 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 12/1/11 8:35 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:15:27 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

I was a "successful" employee at several corporations

========

If you had been successful you'd be collecting a pension now.




Actually, W'hine, that's not necessarily true for many people. There's
no shortage of successful corporate employees who were screwed by the
corporations for which they worked and no shortage of successful
corporate employees who were screwed out of their pensions by the
corporations for which they worked.

Here's an example: Chesley Sullenberger

Sully's pay was cut by his corporate employer, and he lost more than
half his corporate pension benefits.

Name not familar? Sullenberger rose to fame when he successfully ditched
US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River off Manhattan, New York City,
on January 15, 2009, saving the lives of all 155 people on the aircraft.

Sully has spoken publicly about how corporate employees in the airline
industry have been screwed out of pay, benefits, and pensions.




Here you go, w'hine...corporate management at its best:

American Airlines workers face pension plight
Photo
Wed, Nov 30 2011

By Jilian Mincer

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Millions of Americans remember US Airways pilot
Chesley B. "Sully" Sullenberger III. In 2009, he became an instant hero
for saving 155 lives by landing on New York City's Hudson River when his
aircraft lost power after it was struck by birds shortly after taking off.

But few know that - like thousands of other airline employees -
Sullenberger was struggling financially at the time because two US
Airways bankruptcies had derailed his pension and slashed his salary 40
percent.

"We had saved some money, but not enough to make up for everything we
were losing," says Sullenberger, who has since become a successful
author, consultant and volunteer.

His fellow pilots were mostly in their late 40s or 50s, he says. "We
didn't have a lot of time to regain what we had lost."

Soon, roughly 130,000 workers - along with retirees - at American
Airlines and parent AMR Corp could face similar difficulties. On
Tuesday, American became the last major domestic airline to file for
bankruptcy protection. The airline has not announced yet whether it
plans to unload its pension, but the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp
estimated on Tuesday that its four plans are $10 billion underfunded.

American Airlines spokesman Tim Smith says a Chapter 11 reorganization
"does not necessarily mean that" a company will terminate its four
plans, which collectively have about $8.3 billion in assets, according
to the PBGC.

"American's pension and retiree medical plans are very expensive. The
company spends more on them than our competitors," he says. "These costs
and many other factors are considerations when deciding to continue
these benefits."

Other airlines, including United, Delta Air Lines Inc and US Airways
Group Inc, abandoned their pensions in recent years when filing for
bankruptcy, costing the PBGC more than $11 billion.

"It's too soon to say what American will do," says Marc Hopkins, a
spokesman for the agency.

But the PBGC estimates employees and retirees could lose $1 billion in
pension benefits if it has to take over the plans.

That is because annual benefits are capped if the agency assumes
responsibility for a pension plan. The limit is $54,000 for employees
whose companies drop their plans in 2011. While that is enough to cover
most benefit payments, more than 20 percent of airline workers were
affected by the cap in the past, according to a 2008 PBGC study of 17
airline plans between 1990 and 2005.

Bob Coffman, an American captain who is also chairman of Allied Pilots
Association's government affairs committee, says the union and airline
are still negotiating future benefits.

Most experts agree that employees will likely receive only self-funded
401(k) benefits, which are different from company sponsored pension
benefits. Until now, American employees have had a 401(k) option, as
well as the pension plan and a second defined contribution plan, which
was funded by the plan company.

Employees were notified on Tuesday that future retirees can no longer
get a lump sum distribution because the plan is now underfunded.
However, those who retired this fall -- including more than 300 pilots
-- could still receive their lump-sum pension distributions.

That is a relief for American Airlines Captain Rod Carlone, 61, who
retired sooner than he planned in October, primarily because he wanted a
lump-sum payout. The typical distribution for a captain with about 30
years experience is about $1 million, according to Allied Pilots
Association.

"I look like a genius now," says Carlone, who lives in Las Vegas, Nevada.

But for him the decision to retire was simpler than it might be for
colleagues paying for college or not old enough to leave the workforce.

"A lot of guys have to be hurting really bad," Carlone says of some of
his colleagues.

Captain Joel Jeppson made a similar decision. The 61-year-old retired on
October 1 after 33 years with American.

"It was tough to walk away," says Jeppson, who lives near Dallas, Texas.
"I was going to fly until at least 62 and maybe slow down then. I'm in
great health and I love the job."

Jeppson, who is still waiting for his lump sum distribution check to
arrive, says he is fretting about the status of former colleagues.

"I've got several friends that selected to stick around and I'm sure
they're not feeling too good about it. I'm more worried about what the
bankruptcy courts decide for the people who are already retired," he says.

Coffman, who has been with American for 23 years, knows his benefits
will change, but at age 53, he has more time than older colleagues to
save for retirement. While the bankruptcy is tragic, the company has
been struggling and this could help American rebuild, he says.

Coffman compares the situation to the training pilots receive about
handling an engine fire. Pilots are taught to anticipate a problem but
cannot act on it until it occurs.

"To an extent, this is a very similar," says Coffman, who is based in
Miami. "There is no longer anxiety about whether the company will enter
Chapter 11. Now we have a path, rather than worrying about decision."

American's bankruptcy filing was sad news, says Sullenberger, who can
relate to what is happening.

A day before the fateful 2009 flight, Sullenberger talked with his wife
about selling their home to save money. He planned to fly until he was
at least 65 -- the mandatory retirement age -- and then get another job
to make up for his pension and income loss.

"You can imagine how hard that would be at 65 for someone who had worked
a professional career as a pilot," Sullenberger says. "Where would you
go? What would you do? Tens of thousands are facing this, and not just
in the airline industry."


I have a friend on a Delta pension. He's not complaining. Also flies
free world wide.

--
1-20-13 The end of an error