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On 11/11/2011 5:59 PM, Eisboch wrote:
"X ` Man" wrote in message m... On 11/11/11 7:18 AM, John H wrote: Nope. According to his comments, I was 'stupid', because I let myself get drafted. My disdain is for the military establishment generally, the "corporation," so to speak, and not those who wear the uniform, with certain exceptions to the latter, you being one of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------- That's not the impression you leave here Harry. You may not like John or agree with him politically or for other reasons, but you've often posed questions like: "How many innocent Vietnamese did you kill?" and other quips to that effect. That's foul ball, IMO. John, me or anyone else that served in the military didn't make policy. We did what we took an oath to do. You may disagree with that, I might even disagree today, 43 years later and 43 years wiser, but at the time we did what we were required to do. It's not a subject to be taken lightly. BTW ... being Veterans Day and all, I happened to be listening to another left-leaning spokesperson going on and on about the military, it's personnel and the disproportionate number of minorities, undereducated and economically disadvantaged people that make up the ranks because they have few other options. You have also made similar claims. I decided to do my own "fact checking" about these claims. Turns out, it's BS. Here's a few facts I discovered with very little Google effort: Current active duty military personnel represent less than half of 1 percent of the US population. That's a very small number doing the dirty work for the rest of the population. Less than 9 percent of the current US population are either currently serving in the military or are military veterans. Most people guess around 25 to 30 percent. Here's one that may surprise you: Contrary to popular belief or myth, the average person in today’s US military is better educated than their civilian peers as a group. One (1) percent of active duty service members lack a high school diploma. Over 20 percent of civilians over the age of 25 lack a high school diploma. BTW ... 95 percent of military officers hold at least a Bachelor’s Degree; many hold advanced postgrad degrees. and: Contrary to popular belief or myth, enlistees in today’s military are not predominately from low income families or backgrounds. Eleven (11) percent of enlistees come from the poorest US neighborhoods. 25 percent come from the wealthiest US neighborhoods. The rest fall somewhere between. Eisboch Thank you Dick... |
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On 11/11/11 5:59 PM, Eisboch wrote:
"X ` Man" wrote in message m... On 11/11/11 7:18 AM, John H wrote: Nope. According to his comments, I was 'stupid', because I let myself get drafted. My disdain is for the military establishment generally, the "corporation," so to speak, and not those who wear the uniform, with certain exceptions to the latter, you being one of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------- That's not the impression you leave here Harry. You may not like John or agree with him politically or for other reasons, but you've often posed questions like: "How many innocent Vietnamese did you kill?" and other quips to that effect. That's foul ball, IMO. John, me or anyone else that served in the military didn't make policy. We did what we took an oath to do. You may disagree with that, I might even disagree today, 43 years later and 43 years wiser, but at the time we did what we were required to do. It's not a subject to be taken lightly. - - - It is perfectly reasonable to question those who took place in horrific events because they were following orders. The so-called "Nuremberg defense" is not an operable option. All we did in Vietnam, really, is prop up a right-wing dictatorship until it finally fell. Once Buddhist monks starting setting themselves on fire to protest the government we were supporting, you have to ask yourself, "What the hell am I doing here?" Vietnam was not WW II. We weren't on the side of the angels. |
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On 11/11/11 6:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:59:34 -0500, wrote: I decided to do my own "fact checking" about these claims. Turns out, it's BS. Here's a few facts I discovered with very little Google effort: Current active duty military personnel represent less than half of 1 percent of the US population. That's a very small number doing the dirty work for the rest of the population. Less than 9 percent of the current US population are either currently serving in the military or are military veterans. Most people guess around 25 to 30 percent. Here's one that may surprise you: Contrary to popular belief or myth, the average person in today’s US military is better educated than their civilian peers as a group. One (1) percent of active duty service members lack a high school diploma. Over 20 percent of civilians over the age of 25 lack a high school diploma. BTW ... 95 percent of military officers hold at least a Bachelor’s Degree; many hold advanced postgrad degrees. and: Contrary to popular belief or myth, enlistees in today’s military are not predominately from low income families or backgrounds. Eleven (11) percent of enlistees come from the poorest US neighborhoods. 25 percent come from the wealthiest US neighborhoods. The rest fall somewhere between. Eisboch They probably have better health care, too, since they have access to free medical care. And that thing about education, that is free or highly discounted, too, so I guess more people can afford it. Plus, if you are in the military, you can get credit for "life experiences," that's pretty easy, too. It appears to me that the"Heritage Foundation" is the source of your data. I would not consider them either "fair" or "balanced" or accurate. I would consider these statistics more reliable: http://www.census.gov/population/www...ry-Service.pdf The Heritage Foundation? hehehe. If it said the sun were shining at high noon, I'd look out the window to be sure. |
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wrote in message ... On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:59:34 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: I decided to do my own "fact checking" about these claims. Turns out, it's BS. It appears to me that the"Heritage Foundation" is the source of your data. I would not consider them either "fair" or "balanced" or accurate. I would consider these statistics more reliable: http://www.census.gov/population/www...ry-Service.pdf --------------------------------------------------------- The Heritage Foundation is one of the web sites I read (because it popped up in the Google search) however knowing it's reputation among some, I also searched for and read several others including the Department of Defense military personnel and demographics statistics. The numbers vary only slightly. Eisboch |
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"X ` Man" wrote in message m... On 11/11/11 5:59 PM, Eisboch wrote: "X ` Man" wrote in message m... On 11/11/11 7:18 AM, John H wrote: Nope. According to his comments, I was 'stupid', because I let myself get drafted. My disdain is for the military establishment generally, the "corporation," so to speak, and not those who wear the uniform, with certain exceptions to the latter, you being one of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------- That's not the impression you leave here Harry. You may not like John or agree with him politically or for other reasons, but you've often posed questions like: "How many innocent Vietnamese did you kill?" and other quips to that effect. That's foul ball, IMO. John, me or anyone else that served in the military didn't make policy. We did what we took an oath to do. You may disagree with that, I might even disagree today, 43 years later and 43 years wiser, but at the time we did what we were required to do. It's not a subject to be taken lightly. - - - It is perfectly reasonable to question those who took place in horrific events because they were following orders. The so-called "Nuremberg defense" is not an operable option. All we did in Vietnam, really, is prop up a right-wing dictatorship until it finally fell. Once Buddhist monks starting setting themselves on fire to protest the government we were supporting, you have to ask yourself, "What the hell am I doing here?" Vietnam was not WW II. We weren't on the side of the angels. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Explain that to a 19-21 year old brought up under the influence of the 50's and early 60's. I for one didn't know what the "Nuremberg Defense" was, let alone able to spell it. Eisboch |
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On 11/11/11 7:11 PM, Eisboch wrote:
"X ` Man" wrote in message m... On 11/11/11 6:41 PM, wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:59:34 -0500, wrote: I decided to do my own "fact checking" about these claims. Turns out, it's BS. The Heritage Foundation? hehehe. If it said the sun were shining at high noon, I'd look out the window to be sure. ------------------------------------------------ I'll repeat my response to whoever "You.Don’t.Need@ToKnow" is: The Heritage Foundation is one of the web sites I read (because it popped up in the Google search) however knowing it's reputation among some, I also searched for and read several others including the Department of Defense military personnel and demographics statistics. The numbers vary only slightly. Interestingly, as I was on my laptop doing the search, I had "Morning Joe" on the television and was half listening to it. At one point Joe Scarborough started reciting some of the same statistics I found. Now, I know Joe is a Republican, but I don't think he's exactly a "right-winger". Eisboch Joe is a decent right-winger, meaning he is a sort of old fashioned, not insane right winger. He's mellowed some since his terms in the U.S. Congress. The military demographics started changing some during the Bush Administration, when job creation fell into the gutter. |
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On 11/11/11 7:15 PM, Eisboch wrote:
"X ` Man" wrote in message m... On 11/11/11 5:59 PM, Eisboch wrote: "X ` Man" wrote in message m... On 11/11/11 7:18 AM, John H wrote: Nope. According to his comments, I was 'stupid', because I let myself get drafted. My disdain is for the military establishment generally, the "corporation," so to speak, and not those who wear the uniform, with certain exceptions to the latter, you being one of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------- That's not the impression you leave here Harry. You may not like John or agree with him politically or for other reasons, but you've often posed questions like: "How many innocent Vietnamese did you kill?" and other quips to that effect. That's foul ball, IMO. John, me or anyone else that served in the military didn't make policy. We did what we took an oath to do. You may disagree with that, I might even disagree today, 43 years later and 43 years wiser, but at the time we did what we were required to do. It's not a subject to be taken lightly. - - - It is perfectly reasonable to question those who took place in horrific events because they were following orders. The so-called "Nuremberg defense" is not an operable option. All we did in Vietnam, really, is prop up a right-wing dictatorship until it finally fell. Once Buddhist monks starting setting themselves on fire to protest the government we were supporting, you have to ask yourself, "What the hell am I doing here?" Vietnam was not WW II. We weren't on the side of the angels. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Explain that to a 19-21 year old brought up under the influence of the 50's and early 60's. I for one didn't know what the "Nuremberg Defense" was, let alone able to spell it. Eisboch Come on, you went to a first-rate high school full of really bright kids. I know, because I dated a lot of them. :) There were few intellectual slouches I encountered among my buddies, male and female, at Amity Regional. You were just entering high school, I bet, when that terrific Spencer Tracey movie, Judgment at Nuremberg, came out. I'm sure you saw it...everyone did. It's one of the best movies ever made. |
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