" Although we have to be vigilant about terrorism, I sometimes wonder if
government and certain businesses are using the fear of terrorism as
an excuse to hide from the public.


Or to take more of the public's money, and keep the public out of public
areas, as was attempted here in Connecticut 2 years ago.

A certain state legislator, who represents a district that includes an
ultra-welathy enclave of people who live on a group of islands just
offshore, decided that "Homeland Security" would be a wonderful excuse for
punishing kayakers for the crime of paddling in and among those islands (It
just happens to be the most scenic paddling spot in the state if you're a
sea kayaker).

Whar he proposed was registration of the kayaks, so that island residents
could harass them by reporting their registration numbers to authorities for
made-up offenses. We already have a problem here with law enforcement being
used as muscle by the wealthy to break the law and dominate lands and waters
held in public trust. This was just one more instance of it.

What was not counted upon was the mobilization of paddlers and outdoors
groups. A large group of us attended and essentially took over two
legislative public hearings, and won over many of the legislators with our
case. The letter-writing campaign that followed was bigger than the one that
followed the disclosure of the Enron scandal (Our state gov't illegally
loaned them $200 Million, and it appears our recently resigned governor was
a part of that deal, as well as a few others that may land him in federal
prison soon) according to one senior senator I spoke with after the fact.
Two years later, we're still getting press in the media about it.

The excuse was kayaks and canoes full of explosives targeting mansions on
the shore. The reality was that the state wanted registration & property tax
$$$ on paddlecraft, and a way to keep us out of places the rich didn't want
us to go.

Be very wary of any attempt to limit your personal freedoms --- the real
reason is usually something far more sinister than the excuse.

AND VOTE THIS NOVEMBER

Wayne

Rick wrote:
: ...stuff deleted
: So be forewarned. . . if you are seen photographing or videotaping
: an oil refinery, an oil tanker, a bald eagle near an oil refinery, an
: oil spill, etc., you too could be considered a potential Al-Qaida
: terrorist.

: ...stuff deleted

: I don't know about you, but considering how many wonderful things one can
: videotape from a kayak, including whales, natural settings, etc., an oil
: refinery is right down on the bottom of my list, just above the interesting
: poop I took this morning. While I doubt the individual was a terrorist, I
: certainly have to question his/her sanity.

Well, I have actually videotaped a refinery once... varies what camera I
take with me and if I'm in a Sit-On-Top kayak, I usually grab my camcorder
with the scuba enclosure since it's gonna get wet anyway most likely...

Course, I also videotape birds, slurry coming out of pipes and such too, and
generally, officials will react when you call them about something that you
have on video, even without seeing the video...

I have a EWA-Marine enclosure... it only is good for 30 feet underwater but
I told the salesman, "If I'm 30 feet underwater I've got more to worry about
than my camcorder." (he wanted me to buy a more expensive enclosure...)

I wonder if bad guys use spoonsoonies for their personal safety???

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
I have to ask, is this supposed to be
"the land of the free
and the home of the brave"
or the land of the timid living
in fear of people with cameras?

--
Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

Or, to quote Ben Franklin:

"Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little security,
deserve neither freedom nor security." (Having checked this quote, I
find it has many permutations, though all are attributed to Franklin).

My take is, like that of others, that the "homeland security act" reeks
more of facism than democracy. I believe Franklin and other founders of
this nation would agree.

Rick

Claudia Engel wrote:

"Rick" writes:

I don't know about you, but considering how many wonderful things one can
videotape from a kayak, including whales, natural settings, etc., an oil
refinery is right down on the bottom of my list, just above the interesting
poop I took this morning. While I doubt the individual was a terrorist, I
certainly have to question his/her sanity.


Perhaps the person in the boat had concerns about environment pollution,
etc... coming from the oil refinery and wanted video evidence? If they
can put *us* under surveillance, then we can do likewise.



Works for me. Frankly, I see no harm in asking why someone is filming
anything. I would, like anyone else, listen to a reasonable explanation
(such as that forwarded above) and accept it. When nobody asks why
individuals behave in fashions we tend to deem suspicious, we foist off
the responsibility for our own security to those who have neither the
time, resources, and (probably) intellect, to do this successfully.
Hence, putting air marshalls on planes, IMO, does nothing to improve
security, and it increases risk (discharging bullets on aircraft is a
dubious proposition, at best - I, and 150+ other families lost a dear
friend due to the discharge of a single round on a 727 several years ago).

I, for one, also have serious concerns about pollution. I've gone on
some baykeeper paddles (though I've not been called as a witness), for
example, where we documented events we've seen in relation to civic
discharges of wastewater. Kayakers can provide a valuable service in
this arena since they are (generally) able to get to places that others
cannot.

Rick

....stuff deleted

Well, I have actually videotaped a refinery once... varies what camera I
take with me and if I'm in a Sit-On-Top kayak, I usually grab my camcorder
with the scuba enclosure since it's gonna get wet anyway most likely...


I'm a bit jaundiced. I live within a few miles of several refineries on
the Carquenez Straits in the SF Bay Area. You can sit and watch
refineries for hours from here and learn all there is you need to know.
Putting this on tape, excpect for the purpose of documenting pollution
in court, seems beneath mundane to me.

Interestingly, cities near here are now banning the sale of .50 calibre
(I guess I read too many British authors to be certain of the spelling
of that word anymore) rifles because they could potentially be used in
terrorist attacks on refineries. Of course, nobody has studied whether
they are actually more effective for this purpose than, say, any other
weapon or armor penetrating round. We are, in our silly fears, giving up
that which made this country work well for so many years.

I've actually had someone praise Bush and say that there have been no
significant terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11. I laughed and asked
how many there were before. I didn't get an answer.

Course, I also videotape birds, slurry coming out of pipes and such too, and
generally, officials will react when you call them about something that you
have on video, even without seeing the video...

I have a EWA-Marine enclosure... it only is good for 30 feet underwater but
I told the salesman, "If I'm 30 feet underwater I've got more to worry about
than my camcorder." (he wanted me to buy a more expensive enclosure...)

I wonder if bad guys use spoonsoonies for their personal safety???


Now that would be suspicious. If a kayaker is seen with sponsons, the
correct response is to call in the authorities immediately. The coast
guard may well get to use their small canons for once.

Rick

Josh wrote:

Ever since 9/11 people seem to have forgotten that not all terrorists are
Arabic or part of Al-Qaida. There are still environmental nuts that like to
blow things up, burn things down, or chain themselves to bull dozers. And,
their Americans. Gasp.

[ Shouldn't that be "they're Americans. Gasp." ]

What "environmental nuts" do you know about who have blown things up
or burned things down? I haven't heard of that.

Maybe you're thinking of Boy Scouts, who have been known to burn down
entire forests. Are you saying Boy Scouts are all terrorists?

Sitting in a tree, trying to prevent it from being cut down, does not
seem like terrorism to me. Nobody is harmed except lumber company
executives who get lower profit by not harvesting so much cellulose.
But it's not like anybody is getting killed, as in the WTC.

Chaining yourself to a bull dozer, same deal. Some Earth First'ers
have reputedly put sugar in gas tanks, causing property damage, but
does that really constitute terrorism? Vandalism, sure. Tree spiking
was perhaps done a few times, but few incidents are documented.

Please define terrorist.

Hi Folks,

As the group's resident eco-wacko, I have a few comments about this.

1. ELF is real, and they do indeed do bad things. The number of real ELF
incidents, however, can be counted on one hand. No one has yet to be
injured due to an ELF action, but I still don't see where any of this bad
stuff gets us anywhere we want to go, and I do not condone it.

2. Lots of times, what we've seen here in Idaho, is a bulldozer will burn.
Locals will blame EF-ers. There will be NO political content associated
with the act- no notes, press releases, publicity, nothing. There are, of
course, no EF-ers in the area.

The owner then collects insurance. This happens quite a lot-- especially
when commodity markets go through their inevitable downturns.

Chuck

in article , Bill Tuthill at
wrote on 7/6/04 2:48 PM:

Some Earth First'ers
have reputedly put sugar in gas tanks, causing property damage, but
does that really constitute terrorism? Vandalism, sure.

Bill Tuthill

Typed in http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID:



What "environmental nuts" do you know about who have blown things up
or burned things down? I haven't heard of that.



Well, very recently ELF burned down one of the locations of Stock Building
Supply in New Mexico for using diesel forklifts that they felt were producing
too much pollutants.

Do a web search on ELF and you will find that they claim responsiblity for a
lot of acts of distruction.


SYOTR
Larry C.

Charles Pezeshki

typed in
Message-ID:
. ELF is real, and they do indeed do bad things. The number of real ELF
incidents, however, can be counted on one hand. No one has yet to be
injured due to an ELF action, but I still don't see where any of this bad
stuff gets us anywhere we want to go, and I do not condone it.

2. Lots of times, what we've seen here in Idaho, is a bulldozer will burn.
Locals will blame EF-ers. There will be NO political content associated
with the act- no notes, press releases, publicity, nothing. There are, of
course, no EF-ers in the area.

Chuck, these guys claim responsiblity for a lot of incidents, a lot more than
on one hand. We even got a call from the FBI after they burned the Stock
location in New Mexico, so they evidently think the are responsible and capable
of violent acts (I work for the same company).

When is the last time you cruised through their website (based out of Canada,
BTW)?

SYOTR
Larry C.

Larry Cable wrote:

Well, very recently ELF burned down one of the locations of Stock
Building Supply in New Mexico for using diesel forklifts that they felt
were producing too much pollutants.

This should be called political vandalism, not terrorism, because it's
not morally equivalent to e.g. a rush-hour train bombing in Madrid.
Terrorism has to kill people. That's my definition.

Do a web search on ELF and you will find that they claim responsiblity
for a lot of acts of distruction.

About a year ago, a GMC/Hummer dealership in SoCal was vandalized.
Some Hummers were burned, and "ELF" spray painted on the doors.
I told my mom is was probably a college prank. Indeed, when somebody
was later caught (using surveillance video) he turned out to be
a student at some nearby campus.