On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:05:41 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:20:58 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:14:39 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 21:47:27 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 00:16:53 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 21:33:25 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

This whole Arab Spring thing can still blow up in our face if these
guys don't turn out to be the peace loving people we hope they will
be. I can remember people talking about what a great guy Castro was
because he defeated that evil dictator Batista and how he was going to
bring freedom to the island.. That lasted about 6 weeks until Castro
said, "Oh wait. Maybe I am really a communist" (after denying it for
years) and started nationalizing the whole island. Two years later we
damned near had WWIII over Cuba.

This time it might be WWIII over Israel.

Fortunately, we didn't have an absolute dummy in the white house during
the cuban missle crisis. We did have an absolute dummy in the white
house from 2001 to January 2009. You know, the guy who started two wars
with countries not at war with us. That dummy.

JFK was pretty stupid in that affair and was clearly thinking with his
dick not his brain.
He took this whole thing to the brink of WWIII for exactly the same
deal he could have had 10 months before without any drama.
The Soviets wanted our missiles out of Turkey, they pushed the issue
by putting missiles in Cuba and in the end we pulled the missiles out
of Turkey.
We just had a dick measuring contest that almost destroyed the world
before we did it.
I never thought this was a success, on any level. All we proved was
that the Soviets were not as crazy as we thought they were. What we
didn't understand was that Castro had operational control of some of
those missiles and that they were capable of firing them. (a serious
CIA failure)

And Bush wanted to measure dicks with somebody who didn't have one.

We will have spent 5000 American lives, 50,000 wounded, 1 million
Iraqis dead or displaced.

All for a dick measurement against no one.

I agree Iraq was stupid but it wasn't toying with thermonuclear war.

Your point being?
You made one of those false equivalencies.

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 00:35:00 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 19:47:16 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:05:41 -0400, wrote:



I agree Iraq was stupid but it wasn't toying with thermonuclear war.

Your point being?
You made one of those false equivalencies.

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

On Oct 22, 1:21*pm, jps wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 00:35:00 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 19:47:16 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:05:41 -0400, wrote:

I agree Iraq was stupid but it wasn't toying with thermonuclear war.

Your point being?
You made one of those false equivalencies.

What was false about it? *Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

Of course, you did enjoy having ICBM's aimed at the US for the next
30+ years, including all the fear and manpower to keep an eye on "Cube-
r" and it's two bit dictator.

I suppose to you that was cheaper.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 22:41:49 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:27 -0700, jps wrote:

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

The outcome was we caved in to the Soviet demands. We could have done
that without all the risk of WWIII. It was a stupid gamble that he
just got lucky on, but JFK had a history of stupid gambles. Some
didn't come out as well.
The whole Cuban debacle that we are still mired in, started with JFK.

And how many lives, wounded and trillions has that cost?

On 10/23/2011 1:19 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 22:41:49 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:27 -0700, wrote:

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

The outcome was we caved in to the Soviet demands. We could have done
that without all the risk of WWIII. It was a stupid gamble that he
just got lucky on, but JFK had a history of stupid gambles. Some
didn't come out as well.
The whole Cuban debacle that we are still mired in, started with JFK.

And how many lives, wounded and trillions has that cost?

Who knows... We will probably never know how many lives have been lost
making the crossing, and how many families have been tortured and killed
because family members did.... But we know you Progressives, sweep that
under the rug for convenience...

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 22:41:49 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:27 -0700, jps wrote:

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

The outcome was we caved in to the Soviet demands. We could have done
that without all the risk of WWIII. It was a stupid gamble that he
just got lucky on, but JFK had a history of stupid gambles. Some
didn't come out as well.
The whole Cuban debacle that we are still mired in, started with JFK.

And how many lives, wounded and trillions has that cost?

The cold war produced many wounded and killed all around the world.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:25:36 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 22:19:50 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 22:41:49 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:27 -0700, jps wrote:

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

The outcome was we caved in to the Soviet demands. We could have done
that without all the risk of WWIII. It was a stupid gamble that he
just got lucky on, but JFK had a history of stupid gambles. Some
didn't come out as well.
The whole Cuban debacle that we are still mired in, started with JFK.

And how many lives, wounded and trillions has that cost?

Cuban lives? Oh they are brown people who don't count.
Inflation adjusted, Cuba has probably cost more than Iraq over the
years.

Not to the US. Cuba made its own bed. We didn't break it and we
didn't have to buy it.

We bought Iraq with American taxes and American blood. We broke it
and we're having to fix it. No upside for the US, just a ****load or
sunk cost.

On 10/22/11 10:41 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:27 -0700, wrote:

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

The outcome was we caved in to the Soviet demands. We could have done
that without all the risk of WWIII. It was a stupid gamble that he
just got lucky on, but JFK had a history of stupid gambles. Some
didn't come out as well.
The whole Cuban debacle that we are still mired in, started with JFK.





The outcome was that Russia packed up its nuclear missiles and took them
home.

On 10/23/11 5:40 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/22/11 10:41 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:27 -0700, wrote:

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

The outcome was we caved in to the Soviet demands. We could have done
that without all the risk of WWIII. It was a stupid gamble that he
just got lucky on, but JFK had a history of stupid gambles. Some
didn't come out as well.
The whole Cuban debacle that we are still mired in, started with JFK.





The outcome was that Russia packed up its nuclear missiles and took them
home.


Actually, the debacle started long before Kennedy was president. It
started with our support of Fulgencio Batista, the right-wing dictator,
who, during his second round of being Cuba's dictator, sold out the
working classes and his homeland to American capitalists and brutalized
his people. Since Batista was in bed with American corporations, we
supported him. U.S. corporations owned a great deal of Cuban farmland
and most of the island's mineral rights and, of course, Batista was a
bloodthirsty thug.

*That* set the stage for Castro.

We had a penchant for supporting right-wing dictators in those days...in
South Korea, in Iran, in Cuba, in Vietnam. Too bad we didn't line up
with the aspirations of the common man and woman in those countries.

On 10/23/2011 5:40 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/22/11 10:41 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:27 -0700, wrote:

What was false about it? Bush wanted to measure dicks with Saddam.

The worst thing that could happen Iraq happened and most of the world
was unchanged. If the Cuban missile Crisis had a tiny little glitch,
western civilization could have been set back to the dark ages.

At least Bush can say he toppled a dictator. JFK didn't accomplish a
thing, in Cuba or the USSR. It was all for nothing.
The Cuban dictator is still there 50 years later.The Soviet
dictatorship lasted 36 more years and it is easy to say Russia is
still a virtual dictatorship. (unless you really believe Putin can be
tossed out in an election)

We didn't invade Cuba, commit a trillion dollars and 5000 lives.

I prefer Kennedy's outcome.

The outcome was we caved in to the Soviet demands. We could have done
that without all the risk of WWIII. It was a stupid gamble that he
just got lucky on, but JFK had a history of stupid gambles. Some
didn't come out as well.
The whole Cuban debacle that we are still mired in, started with JFK.





The outcome was that Russia packed up its nuclear missiles and took them
home.

No, the outcome was we picked up our missiles in Europe, and brought
them home... Just as Russia demanded...