Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...
Alex Horvath wrote:
Is there anything that compares to a NDK design wise? The skeg, day
hatch, compass, pump, reccessed fittings are very useful features. I
was planning on buying an NDK this summer.

OK here is the deal.
NDK Explorer and Romany are the best boats I have ever paddled. They
spin like a top when you want them to , have OK initial stability and
spectacular secondery stability. When the sea goes to crap you have
the finest boat in the water. The covers for the hatches DON'T leak,
They are from Valley anyway.

P & H Capella is every bit as good ( but no better ) in the water as
the Romany.

Now here is the problem. NDK skegs are not as reliable as say the
Capellas'. The NDK lay up is rough: Mine had a bubble in the recessed
fitting for the day hatch and it leaked almost filling that hatch
soaking my walking shoes and floating my emergency kit in a dry bag.
It filled well past the water line in a three or four hour paddle.
NDK sent new hatch covers but when we found the leak they ( NDK the
manufacturers ) were useless. The local dealer ( Base Camp Outfitters
) were great. ( It was a flaw in the lay up ) A bubble in a recessed
fitting opened a way for water not only to be funneled in but with the
contraction of cooling air in the compartment it sucked water in and a
very high rate and remained a bugger to find. I had to epoxy it myself
.. ( Thanks NDK! )
My skeg cable has failed twice, once because of a flaw in the wire
when I got it and once because it was jammed and the weak set up
allowed it to buckle. The string operations are no better. perhaps
worse. You hardly need a skeg anyway on the explorer. I have not fixed
mine and though I paddle twice a week on the off season it remains
unimportant.
In hind site I could ( Should ) have done without one. It would have
saved no money but I would have ad a little more room for stuff.
The story that the boat is heavily laid up for expeditions is sort of
lost on me. There are resin runs on the inside of the boat. They add
weight but no strength. I have the odd star crack and fixed a large
one that I have no idea how I got . I deserve all the scratches and
the two chips on the bow.
The Day hatch is not usefull in a loaded boat or in any waves. ( When
you are going to want it. ) It is too close to the water. It is
something you just don't need.
It would be nice to have another bungee over the area behind the seat
for a paddle float rescue brace , for those of us not into Yoga. Oh
yes ,, I have a roll and a reentry roll but amongst Ice Bergs I want
my head out of the water as much as possible.
The NDK 's are heavy, The outfitting is OK , Price is the same as say
CD's Gulf Stream ( Which is comparable ) the NDK lay up is 1970's
technology, the cockpit is a little larger than need be, ( Not all my
spray decks will fit. ) the hatches are tiny ( Tent and poles must go
in seperately and my down sleeping bag has to get stuffed into the dry
bag inside the hatches.) That said they don't leak.
I have a plastic P & H Capella , P & H are great at service. A good
friend has a Capella in glass and she loves it.
CD has the Gulf Stream , That deserves a look, the finish is CD
quality.

Now remember what I said about the NDK in the beginning??
Once in the water it is the best boat likely on the planet: But on top
of your car it is a quality control nightmare. You have to paddle it
to like it and you either love or hate it. ( Perhaps like a Harley )
I would not swap My NDK for any other boat; but I would not subject a
friend to a diatribe of how wonderfull this thing is and have someone
who does less paddling than me look closely at their very expensive
boat and spot flaw after flaw.

Oh IMPEX , I had one of those once. I still own the NDK!

Good luck, Valley has fine boat as does P & H . Watch the CD line up
as well. The WS Tempest is an unknown quantity to me but it is another
attempt at a UK / Greenland design.
NDK does lead the way once it its in the water though.

Brian Nystrom wrote in news:hHmtc.76477$hH.1413324
@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:



Eric wrote:

Steve Cramer wrote:


If you'd explored the site at all you would have found the order form
http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag..._orderform.pdf and seen
that you have to check a box to NOT get a skeg.


If anyone is interested, I wrote to NDK about whether the 16' Romany
automatically came with a skeg. Apparently, it does not. It apparently
must be specifically ordered with the boat.

The specific question I asked was:

----
Does the 16' Romany come with a skeg by default or must it be special
ordered? ----

Here's the brief reply I got back:

----
Dear Sir,
You need to order one.
Regards,
Dave

Nigel Dennis Kayaks Ltd.


Fair enough. I guess the more salient question is whether any of the
importers will actually bring in any without skegs unless they're
special ordered. Skeg-less Romanys seem to become "white elephants" in a
hurry.

The VCP Skerray typically came with a skeg but I managed to find one that
didn't have one. I bought the boat used and really have no idea how old it
is. It had (it eventually fell apart) a moulded rubber seat (not foam) and
the newer ones all have a fiberglass seat. There have been a few times when
I wish I had a skeg on it but it hasn't bothered me enough not to keep the
boat for six some years.

My friend just got three new Curritucks in his shop. It looks like they've
improved the seat a bit and the outfitting in general looks better. They've
all got day hatches (VCP hatches). He also got in a carbon kevlar Mystic
and one of the Curritucks has the expedition glass layup. The upgrade cost
from a standard glass to kevlar or carbon kevlar is pretty reasonable. I
know that Romany's can be custom ordered (a friend has one with a metallic
purple/silver deck) but it's nice to see another company offer several
standard and custom options for a layup. The Impex site indicates one can
order an "Exotic layup" to suit your taste. For example, if you want a boat
without gel coat they'll build one for you. From what I've seen, Impex has
been doing a lot of things right since they entered the market.

(Eric) wrote in news:1gee272.jpse5m1fzltqpN%
:

Steve Cramer wrote:

If you'd explored the site at all you would have found the order form
http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag..._orderform.pdf and seen
that you have to check a box to NOT get a skeg.

If anyone is interested, I wrote to NDK about whether the 16' Romany
automatically came with a skeg. Apparently, it does not. It apparently
must be specifically ordered with the boat.

The specific question I asked was:

----
Does the 16' Romany come with a skeg by default or must it be special
ordered?
----

Here's the brief reply I got back:

----
Dear Sir,
You need to order one.
Regards,
Dave


I you were in the market to buy a new car and picked out a couple of models
you were interested in most would be available as a basic model with out any
options. However, if you visit a new car dealership most of the cars on the
lot are going to have at least some options included. While it may be
possible to buy a new car without a radio/cd player most dealership don't
have vehicles on the lot because most people want a radio/cd player in their
new car. As Brian said, Romany's are not much different. Most of them
you'd find at a dealer have a skeg because that is how they order them. If
you're ordering directly from the dealer you have more options as to how the
boat is layed up, the color scheme, or outfitted.

Dave Van wrote in
:

in article ,
Brian Nystrom at wrote on 5/26/04 6:13 AM:


Impex boats are well built and have an good reputation. They did have
problems with leaky hatches when they were using fibglass covers, but
that's been dealt with by switching to rubber hatches. Their boats are
pretty lightly constructed and have thin gelcoat, but I haven't seen
any problems with durability with their vacuum bagged layups. The only
problem I've seen more than once on them is cracked cheek plates on
the seats, but that's on boats that are a few years old. This may have
been addressed, but I don't know for certain. They have a solid
reputation for customer service, so I wouldn't worry too much.


Hi Brian,

Good supportive statements about Impex. Every day I get a little closer
to taking the steps to buy an Impex kayak and this kind of statement
from a person I respect helps a lot.

Currituck or Assateague, that is the question that only test paddles
can answer. Too bad the nearest Impex dealer is 250 miles away!

Where do you live?

Yesterday I looked at a Currituck and Assateague side by side. I've only
paddled the Currituck but the Assateague look much bigger. Which one is
best will more likely be determined by your body size as much as how each
boat paddles.

Alex McGruer wrote:

Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...

Alex Horvath wrote:

Is there anything that compares to a NDK design wise? The skeg, day
hatch, compass, pump, reccessed fittings are very useful features. I
was planning on buying an NDK this summer.


OK here is the deal.
NDK Explorer and Romany are the best boats I have ever paddled. They
spin like a top when you want them to , have OK initial stability and
spectacular secondery stability. When the sea goes to crap you have
the finest boat in the water.

Funny, I feel the same way about my Pintail. I had it out in some
seriously nasty winds today and there's no boat I'd rather be in. The
truth is that there are plenty of good rough water boats.

The covers for the hatches DON'T leak,
They are from Valley anyway.

No, they're mostly from Kajak Sport, though they use VCP's for day hatches.

P & H Capella is every bit as good ( but no better ) in the water as
the Romany.

Now here is the problem. NDK skegs are not as reliable as say the
Capellas'. The NDK lay up is rough: Mine had a bubble in the recessed
fitting for the day hatch and it leaked almost filling that hatch
soaking my walking shoes and floating my emergency kit in a dry bag.
It filled well past the water line in a three or four hour paddle.
NDK sent new hatch covers but when we found the leak they ( NDK the
manufacturers ) were useless. The local dealer ( Base Camp Outfitters
) were great. ( It was a flaw in the lay up ) A bubble in a recessed
fitting opened a way for water not only to be funneled in but with the
contraction of cooling air in the compartment it sucked water in and a
very high rate and remained a bugger to find. I had to epoxy it myself
. ( Thanks NDK! )

I've seen the same thing on a Nordkapp, though that was a '92. On a VCP
boat, I would consider it an anomaly. On an NDK, it's par for the course.

My skeg cable has failed twice, once because of a flaw in the wire
when I got it and once because it was jammed and the weak set up
allowed it to buckle. The string operations are no better. perhaps
worse. You hardly need a skeg anyway on the explorer. I have not fixed
mine and though I paddle twice a week on the off season it remains
unimportant.

I've heard the same thing (about not needing the skeg) from other
Explorer owners. I've also heard that skegless Romanys don't handle
well, but I can't verify that.

In hind site I could ( Should ) have done without one. It would have
saved no money but I would have ad a little more room for stuff.
The story that the boat is heavily laid up for expeditions is sort of
lost on me. There are resin runs on the inside of the boat. They add
weight but no strength. I have the odd star crack and fixed a large
one that I have no idea how I got . I deserve all the scratches and
the two chips on the bow.

NDK's claim that weight=strength is pure BS. They use crappy materials
like chopped strand mat that soaks up resin like a sponge. They use at
least twice as much gelcoat as is necessary. It results in weak, heavy
and overly stiff layup. VCP builds boats that are every bit as rugged
and weight ~10# less.

The Day hatch is not usefull in a loaded boat or in any waves. ( When
you are going to want it. ) It is too close to the water. It is
something you just don't need.

I differ with you on this in one sense. I agree that day hatches are not
that useful on the water. However, I find them very useful for what
their name implies, carrying the gear you need for a day trip. With a
single large aft compartment with the hatch in the typical location,
it's a pain to keep small amounts of day trip gear from sliding around
unless you want to pack it full of float bags. It's even more of a pain
to access gear that's packed right behind the aft bulkhead, which is
where you want it in order to minimize the effect on the boat's
handling. The day hatch does a great job of containing this stuff and
making it more accessible. I rarely access a day hatch while on the
water, but it is possible.

It would be nice to have another bungee over the area behind the seat
for a paddle float rescue brace , for those of us not into Yoga. Oh
yes ,, I have a roll and a reentry roll but amongst Ice Bergs I want
my head out of the water as much as possible.
The NDK 's are heavy, The outfitting is OK , Price is the same as say
CD's Gulf Stream ( Which is comparable ) the NDK lay up is 1970's
technology, the cockpit is a little larger than need be, ( Not all my
spray decks will fit. ) the hatches are tiny ( Tent and poles must go
in seperately and my down sleeping bag has to get stuffed into the dry
bag inside the hatches.) That said they don't leak.
I have a plastic P & H Capella , P & H are great at service. A good
friend has a Capella in glass and she loves it.
CD has the Gulf Stream , That deserves a look, the finish is CD
quality.

A couple of observations on CD boats. The gelcoat on them is quite thin,
which can be a problem for a boat that's used hard. Somewhere between CD
and NDK, there's a good balance of gelcoat thickness.

I've seen several skeg problems with CD boats and I don't mean kinked
cables from operator error. An old girlfriend of mine's Slipstream was
shipped from the factory with the wrong skeg installed. That ultimately
resulted in the the fitting in the skeg box getting punched out and her
aft compartment filling ~1/3 with water during a trip. A friend
literally had the plastic skeg surround fall off his Andromeda last
weekend. The goop holding it in place simply let go. While we were
poking around at it, the pivot bar fell out. It was only held in by the
same goop. I can't see any excuse for any of these problems. Other than
this, CD boats seem to be good quality and they're quite popular.

in article , John Fereira at
wrote on 5/29/04 6:28 PM:

Dave Van wrote in
:

in article ,
Brian Nystrom at wrote on 5/26/04 6:13 AM:


Impex boats are well built and have an good reputation. They did have
problems with leaky hatches when they were using fibglass covers, but
that's been dealt with by switching to rubber hatches. Their boats are
pretty lightly constructed and have thin gelcoat, but I haven't seen
any problems with durability with their vacuum bagged layups. The only
problem I've seen more than once on them is cracked cheek plates on
the seats, but that's on boats that are a few years old. This may have
been addressed, but I don't know for certain. They have a solid
reputation for customer service, so I wouldn't worry too much.


Hi Brian,

Good supportive statements about Impex. Every day I get a little closer
to taking the steps to buy an Impex kayak and this kind of statement
from a person I respect helps a lot.

Currituck or Assateague, that is the question that only test paddles
can answer. Too bad the nearest Impex dealer is 250 miles away!

Where do you live?

Chicago, IL. I paddle on Lake Michigan. Most of the time, the lake
conditions here are probably childs play compared to what you are used to
paddling, but we do get days where the waves get kicked up to several feet.
Yesterday we had 6 to 8 footers for example. I'd like a boat that can handle
conditions better than what I have now, a plastic Prijon Kodiak which has
very little rocker and nearly plumb bow and stern.


Yesterday I looked at a Currituck and Assateague side by side. I've only
paddled the Currituck but the Assateague look much bigger. Which one is
best will more likely be determined by your body size as much as how each
boat paddles.

It's absolutely a size issue. I'm 6'1" tall and 210lbs. With cold water
clothing on, I am a good size creature.

But, I'm in no rush, I test paddle kayaks when I can. I'll get around to
driving to Michigan to take a look and try out the Impex kayaks eventually.
All of the info being exchanged right now in this thread is extremely
helpful so thanks for that.

Peace

DV

On 29-May-2004, Brian Nystrom wrote:

I agree that day hatches are not
that useful on the water. However, I find them very useful for what
their name implies, carrying the gear you need for a day trip.

I don't have a day hatch, but used on on an Explorer on a four-night
trip once.

Since I paddle in bear country, I like the idea of using the day hatch
to carry all food and cooking equipment. This would allow me to
separate the smelly stuff from all the tents, clothes etc. Since
cooking equipment tends to be heavy (pots, stove) as does food (well,
liquids) it puts the heavy stuff close to the cockpit.

Having used the Explorer after buying my Ellesmere, I kind of wish I'd
bought mine with a day hatch.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:

On 29-May-2004, Brian Nystrom wrote:


I agree that day hatches are not
that useful on the water. However, I find them very useful for what
their name implies, carrying the gear you need for a day trip.


I don't have a day hatch, but used on on an Explorer on a four-night
trip once.

Since I paddle in bear country, I like the idea of using the day hatch
to carry all food and cooking equipment. This would allow me to
separate the smelly stuff from all the tents, clothes etc. Since
cooking equipment tends to be heavy (pots, stove) as does food (well,
liquids) it puts the heavy stuff close to the cockpit.

Having used the Explorer after buying my Ellesmere, I kind of wish I'd
bought mine with a day hatch.

Why not add one? The Ellesmere has a flat aft deck that's perfect for
installing a day hatch. Add a third bulkhead and you're good to go.
That's what I did with my Pintail, which originally came with a Chimp
pump, which was truly useless. It's easier than you might imagine.

On 30-May-2004, Brian Nystrom wrote:

Why not add one? The Ellesmere has a flat aft deck that's perfect for
installing a day hatch. Add a third bulkhead and you're good to go.

If the kayak needs major work, I'd consider it. I'd consider a curved
bulkhead behind the seat as well (though that would affect the position
of the electric pump. Right now, I'd rather be paddling and I've got
far too many projects to add this to my list. Having done new bulkheads
on my (now sold) Solstice, I know how much/little work is entailed.

Mike

John Fereira wrote:

Yesterday I looked at a Currituck and Assateague side by side. I've only
paddled the Currituck but the Assateague look much bigger.

If anyone is interested, the Currituck is 17' and the Assateague is 17'
10"



--
== Eric Gorr ========= http://www.ericgorr.net ========= ICQ:9293199 ===
"Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
== Insults, like violence, are the last refuge of the incompetent... ===