I was just wondering what some opinions on these two kayaks that I am
considering were from those who have either owned them or paddled them
extensively.

How do they behave in rougher water?
Do you find you need a skeg or rudder?

Eric wrote:
I was just wondering what some opinions on these two kayaks that I am
considering were from those who have either owned them or paddled them
extensively.

How do they behave in rougher water?

Both are good rough water boats.

Do you find you need a skeg or rudder?

They both come with skegs. Rudder? Bite your tongue! ;-)

Brian Nystrom wrote:

Do you find you need a skeg or rudder?

They both come with skegs.

Are you sure?

While I'm sure that one could have a skeg installed on the Romany, the
description of the Romany at:

http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag...ups/romany.htm

does not mention a skeg and I don't recall seeing one on the boat I
paddled. Although, the description of the Currituck does.


I had one reply that questioned the quality of the construction of Impex
and NDK kayaks (leaks, etc...), but this largely goes against everything
else I've heard about them. Of course, every manufactured item is bound
to have the occasional defect. Any opinions?

Rudder? Bite your tongue! ;-)

ouch.

Eric wrote:

Brian Nystrom wrote:

Do you find you need a skeg or rudder?

They both come with skegs.

Are you sure?

While I'm sure that one could have a skeg installed on the Romany, the
description of the Romany at:
http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag...ups/romany.htm
does not mention a skeg and I don't recall seeing one on the boat I
paddled.

Did you look at the hull?

There are four pictures of Romanys on the NDK site. You gave us a link
to the only one that does not clearly show an extended skeg. If you look
at the stern deck you can see the lines for it.

If you'd explored the site at all you would have found the order form
http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag..._orderform.pdf and seen
that you have to check a box to NOT get a skeg.

I've never seen a Romany that DIDN'T have a skeg.

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Steve Cramer wrote:

I've never seen a Romany that DIDN'T have a skeg.

Interesting. This would then seem to imply that most, if not everyone,
believes that a skeg is required for the Romany.

--
== Eric Gorr ========= http://www.ericgorr.net ========= ICQ:9293199 ===
"Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
== Insults, like violence, are the last refuge of the incompetent... ===

Eric wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:


I've never seen a Romany that DIDN'T have a skeg.


Interesting. This would then seem to imply that most, if not everyone,
believes that a skeg is required for the Romany.

The only person I know who had one without a skeg sold it and bought a
new one WITH a skeg. He's an accomplished paddler, so I'd take that as a
sign.

Steve Cramer wrote:

If you'd explored the site at all you would have found the order form
http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag..._orderform.pdf and seen
that you have to check a box to NOT get a skeg.

If anyone is interested, I wrote to NDK about whether the 16' Romany
automatically came with a skeg. Apparently, it does not. It apparently
must be specifically ordered with the boat.

The specific question I asked was:

----
Does the 16' Romany come with a skeg by default or must it be special
ordered?
----

Here's the brief reply I got back:

----
Dear Sir,
You need to order one.
Regards,
Dave

Nigel Dennis Kayaks Ltd.


----


--
== Eric Gorr ========= http://www.ericgorr.net ========= ICQ:9293199 ===
"Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
== Insults, like violence, are the last refuge of the incompetent... ===

Eric wrote:

Steve Cramer wrote:


If you'd explored the site at all you would have found the order form
http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag..._orderform.pdf and seen
that you have to check a box to NOT get a skeg.


If anyone is interested, I wrote to NDK about whether the 16' Romany
automatically came with a skeg. Apparently, it does not. It apparently
must be specifically ordered with the boat.

The specific question I asked was:

----
Does the 16' Romany come with a skeg by default or must it be special
ordered?
----

Here's the brief reply I got back:

----
Dear Sir,
You need to order one.
Regards,
Dave

Nigel Dennis Kayaks Ltd.



Fair enough. I guess the more salient question is whether any of the
importers will actually bring in any without skegs unless they're
special ordered. Skeg-less Romanys seem to become "white elephants" in a
hurry.

(Eric) wrote in news:1gee272.jpse5m1fzltqpN%
:

Steve Cramer wrote:

If you'd explored the site at all you would have found the order form
http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag..._orderform.pdf and seen
that you have to check a box to NOT get a skeg.

If anyone is interested, I wrote to NDK about whether the 16' Romany
automatically came with a skeg. Apparently, it does not. It apparently
must be specifically ordered with the boat.

The specific question I asked was:

----
Does the 16' Romany come with a skeg by default or must it be special
ordered?
----

Here's the brief reply I got back:

----
Dear Sir,
You need to order one.
Regards,
Dave


I you were in the market to buy a new car and picked out a couple of models
you were interested in most would be available as a basic model with out any
options. However, if you visit a new car dealership most of the cars on the
lot are going to have at least some options included. While it may be
possible to buy a new car without a radio/cd player most dealership don't
have vehicles on the lot because most people want a radio/cd player in their
new car. As Brian said, Romany's are not much different. Most of them
you'd find at a dealer have a skeg because that is how they order them. If
you're ordering directly from the dealer you have more options as to how the
boat is layed up, the color scheme, or outfitted.

Eric wrote:

Brian Nystrom wrote:


Do you find you need a skeg or rudder?

They both come with skegs.


Are you sure?

Yes.

While I'm sure that one could have a skeg installed on the Romany, the
description of the Romany at:

http://www.nigeldenniskayaks.com/Pag...ups/romany.htm

does not mention a skeg and I don't recall seeing one on the boat I
paddled. Although, the description of the Currituck does.

Both come standard with skegs. The latest system that NDK has devised is
a real nightmare, so perhaps they don't intend for you to use it.

I had one reply that questioned the quality of the construction of Impex
and NDK kayaks (leaks, etc...), but this largely goes against everything
else I've heard about them. Of course, every manufactured item is bound
to have the occasional defect. Any opinions?

The two companies are pretty much polar opposites in terms of quality.
Impex boats are well built and have an good reputation. They did have
problems with leaky hatches when they were using fibglass covers, but
that's been dealt with by switching to rubber hatches. Their boats are
pretty lightly constructed and have thin gelcoat, but I haven't seen any
problems with durability with their vacuum bagged layups. The only
problem I've seen more than once on them is cracked cheek plates on the
seats, but that's on boats that are a few years old. This may have been
addressed, but I don't know for certain. They have a solid reputation
for customer service, so I wouldn't worry too much.

On the other hand, NDK has had absymal quality control for years and
their boats are known for having many types problems. Their web site
even provides instructions for repairing common defects. One of the
things they list is UNCURED HULL TO DECK SEAMS! Can you imagine that? I
haven't seen that, but I've seen numerous broken seats, coamings that
are installed so low that you can't get a spray skirt on them, hulls
with no fiberglass behind the skeg box, poorly installed (leaky)
hatches, leaking bulkheads and more. The boats are outrageously heavy,
due to the fact that they're built primarily of thick gelcoat and
chopped strand matt (weak, low-end material that's a real resin sponge)
and laid up by hand. According to a friend who's been to their shop in
Wales, the boats are built largely by minimum-wage kids right out of
high school who are more interested in collecting their pay and hitting
the local pub than building quality kayaks. "You want fries with that
Romany?"

Recently, they claim to have made great strides in quality, though I
have yet to see any boats produced since their new Q/C program started.
Interestingly, they filed for bankruptcy protection right around the
same time that they announced the Q/C program. Neither of these things
is surprising considering that their sales have taken a major beating in
the US market in the past couple of years, probably due to a combination
of their poor reputation and increased competition from North American
companies like Impex, Seaward, Necky and Wilderness Systems. Their major
distributor for years (GRO) dropped the line when the last container
they received last year had 50% defective boats. Bottom line? The
designs are excellent, but buying their boats is a crapshoot. You may
get a good one, or you may end up with a nightmare. It's truly a shame,
since they are outstanding performers when you get them out on the water.