"Honey Badger" wrote in message
...

X ` Man wrote:

The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.

---------------------------------------------------

Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission
lines including that which connects to your house panel.

Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and early
70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem.
The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will
oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator
rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was changed
and terminations developed that prevent oxygen
from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct
terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what
Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to
spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the
genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred over
copper for that use.

When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the power
runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to
the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We also
put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with
an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a house
genset that he was trying to sell us at the time.
We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of
time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just
doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for more
than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda
EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive
fine. The longest recent period without power was
during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36 hours.
To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without
TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace.

Eisboch

On 10/5/11 8:39 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"Honey Badger" wrote in message
...

X ` Man wrote:

The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.

---------------------------------------------------

Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission
lines including that which connects to your house panel.

Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and
early 70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem.
The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will
oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator
rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was
changed and terminations developed that prevent oxygen
from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct
terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what
Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to
spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the
genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred
over copper for that use.

When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the
power runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to
the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We
also put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with
an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a
house genset that he was trying to sell us at the time.
We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of
time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just
doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for
more than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda
EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive
fine. The longest recent period without power was
during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36
hours. To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without
TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace.

Eisboch



Our situation is different here in southern Maryland. Without
electricity, we have no water...we're on a deep well. No water to drink,
no water to wash, no water to flush toilets. Without electricity, the
food in the refigerators spoils. Without power during a long cold spell,
the water lines near the exterior of the house can freeze.

We have fairly frequent power outages out here in ruralville.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...



Our situation is different here in southern Maryland. Without
electricity, we have no water...we're on a deep well. No water to drink,
no water to wash, no water to flush toilets. Without electricity, the
food in the refigerators spoils. Without power during a long cold spell,
the water lines near the exterior of the house can freeze.

We have fairly frequent power outages out here in ruralville.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. If we didn't have town water I probably would have a generator
installed ... or get one for the tractor
power take-off. We had a similar situation to yours in Florida. No power
= no water. You can survive for quite
a while with no power as long as you have water.

Our house here in MA has gas (propane) for the stoves and also for the
fireplaces. We can generate some heat
using the fireplaces (although very inefficient) and can cook etc. on the
stoves. So, lack of power isn't a major
problem although it gets old fast.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...



"Honey Badger" wrote in message
...

X ` Man wrote:

The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.

---------------------------------------------------

Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission
lines including that which connects to your house panel.

Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and early
70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem.
The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will
oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator
rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was changed
and terminations developed that prevent oxygen
from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct
terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what
Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to
spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the
genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred over
copper for that use.

When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the power
runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to
the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We also
put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with
an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a house
genset that he was trying to sell us at the time.
We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of
time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just
doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for more
than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda
EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive
fine. The longest recent period without power was
during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36 hours.
To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without
TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace.

Eisboch


----------------------------------------

The oxidation was not the main problem. Was what showed up because of the
connections getting loose and then the oxidation formed, causing fires. The
aluminum has very little elastic range. Where it works like a spring, so
the aluminum actually cold flows and gets smaller under the screw
connection. Therefore getting loose. They use some special boxes that
include a spring like connector to keep the connection tight. Big
electrical lines are aluminum as the weight is significantly less and they
can run fewer towers. The 500KV main power grid lines in California are
very large aluminum wire.

On 06/10/2011 3:28 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...



"Honey Badger" wrote in message
...

X ` Man wrote:

The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.

---------------------------------------------------

Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission
lines including that which connects to your house panel.

Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and early
70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem.
The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will
oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator
rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was changed
and terminations developed that prevent oxygen
from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct
terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what
Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to
spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the
genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred over
copper for that use.

When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the power
runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to
the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We also
put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with
an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a house
genset that he was trying to sell us at the time.
We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of
time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just
doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for more
than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda
EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive
fine. The longest recent period without power was
during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36 hours.
To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without
TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace.

Eisboch


----------------------------------------

The oxidation was not the main problem. Was what showed up because of
the connections getting loose and then the oxidation formed, causing
fires. The aluminum has very little elastic range. Where it works like a
spring, so the aluminum actually cold flows and gets smaller under the
screw connection. Therefore getting loose. They use some special boxes
that include a spring like connector to keep the connection tight. Big
electrical lines are aluminum as the weight is significantly less and
they can run fewer towers. The 500KV main power grid lines in California
are very large aluminum wire.

And very high voltage with lower currents.


--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

wrote in message ...

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:31:10 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

The oxidation was not the main problem. Was what showed up because of
the connections getting loose and then the oxidation formed, causing
fires. The aluminum has very little elastic range. Where it works like a
spring, so the aluminum actually cold flows and gets smaller under the
screw connection. Therefore getting loose. They use some special boxes
that include a spring like connector to keep the connection tight. Big
electrical lines are aluminum as the weight is significantly less and
they can run fewer towers. The 500KV main power grid lines in California
are very large aluminum wire.

And very high voltage with lower currents.

That is not true at all. Overhead transmission lines carry very large
currents, so high that the "sag" from the I2R heating causes problems.
That is one reason why our overloaded grid is so inefficient. There
are some estimates that far more than half of the power generated,
never makes to the meter.


It may have a lower current density than some local wires, but those lines
carry huge amounts of current. The wires look to be 4-6" diameter. When a
crop dusting plane hit one years ago, the plane pretty much vaporized
according to a friend who worked for PG&E near the crash.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:19:32 -0400, wrote:

Aluminum sucks as a reliable conductor.

========

That's really not true.

Aluminum is a *very* reliable conductor, almost as good as copper but
considerably lighter and less expensive. The issue with aluminum
wiring is that it must be terminated correctly with a connector
specially designed for it.

Calif Bill described it perfectly.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 20:39:27 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"Honey Badger" wrote in message
m...

X ` Man wrote:

The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.

---------------------------------------------------

Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission
lines including that which connects to your house panel.

Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and early
70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem.
The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will
oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator
rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was changed
and terminations developed that prevent oxygen
from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct
terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what
Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to
spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the
genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred over
copper for that use.

When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the power
runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to
the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We also
put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with
an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a house
genset that he was trying to sell us at the time.
We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of
time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just
doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for more
than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda
EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive
fine. The longest recent period without power was
during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36 hours.
To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without
TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace.

Eisboch

Aluminum also is bad to work harden and has a high coefficient of
expansion. There is NO WAY to interface aluminum and copper without
dissimilar metals corrosion. Aluminum sucks as a reliable conductor.

Wrong. Look up at the power lines........