Dan Valleskey wrote:

I wouldn't usually bother posting that, but I am afraid many folks
think Bush has a very good chance of being re-elected.

He does, especially since it's becoming clearer that Kerry can't be
trusted to tell the truth about much of anything. He's just another
typical politician.

And I am sorry, Wilko, but Kerry will not pull us out of Iraq
overnight. Far as I can tell, we will be there for a while.

Good. The worst thing we could do is to simply pull out. It's going to
take time to stabilize Iraq and we shouldn't leave until that job is
done. I'll give Kerry credit that he at least seems to understand that.

BTW, why would you apologize to Wilko? His fairy tale ideas about an
immediate pullout and UN control are ridiculous.

I know folks who are ready to move to Canada! I only hope that one
day I can return to Europe for a visit without being ashamed of being
an American.

Why would you be ashamed? Have YOU done anything that you consider wrong
or hurtful to the rest of the world? There's a big difference between
"the government" and "the people", here and everywhere around the world.
There are many things I'm not pleased with about our culture and
government policies, but that doesn't make me ashamed to be an American.

On Sat, 01 May 2004 13:33:12 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:

Dan Valleskey wrote:
snip..
And I am sorry, Wilko, but Kerry will not pull us out of Iraq
overnight. Far as I can tell, we will be there for a while.

snip..

BTW, why would you apologize to Wilko? His fairy tale ideas about an
immediate pullout and UN control are ridiculous.

I know him, I value his opinions. He has seen more than I ever will.
His thoughts and opinions are not pulled out of mid-air. He is very
very intelligent, in my opinion, and I suspect well read. He has a
different viewpoint than any American is likely to have. Let's not
forget that Usenet is a world wide forum. And- what I said was- I
am sorry but Kerry will not pull us out of Iraq overnight..... Yes,
we have an obligation to leave them in a bettter situiation. I am
sorry that we will be there for some time, to effect needed changes.
And I am sorry that Americans will die in that effort.



I know folks who are ready to move to Canada! I only hope that one
day I can return to Europe for a visit without being ashamed of being
an American.

Why would you be ashamed? Have YOU done anything that you consider wrong
or hurtful to the rest of the world? There's a big difference between
"the government" and "the people", here and everywhere around the world.
There are many things I'm not pleased with about our culture and
government policies, but that doesn't make me ashamed to be an American.


I agree, was it Ed Abbey that said, love your country, but hate
(?mistrust?) it's government. Unfortunatly, the man I (and the
majority in this country) voted for did not get into office.

Maybe "ashamed" was not the best word I could have used. But I was
sure not proud that I was an American, when I was in Europe. It is a
big world, and many of the people in it don't like me, because of my
government. America attacked Iraq without just cause. So we are
scorned in many places. Do you like that?

You (or someone in this thread) mentioned something about my being a
troll. I resent that. I have posted on RBP for many years. I
prefaced my remarks (to an OT posting) that I did not take this stance
lightly. I am not standing here on a soap box just to make trouble,
just to rattle the cage. People who read this may one day paddle with
me, share a campfire with me. I hope they understand my views to some
extent, even if they don't agree with me. A troll? Not as I
understand the meaning of the word in this context.

If you want to take this discussion off usenet, I believe you can find
my true email address in my signature. I am even willing to talk to
you on the phone, just contact me off RBP. But please don't call me a
troll.

-Dan V.

Dan Valleskey wrote:
On Sat, 01 May 2004 13:33:12 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:


Dan Valleskey wrote:

snip..

And I am sorry, Wilko, but Kerry will not pull us out of Iraq
overnight. Far as I can tell, we will be there for a while.

snip..

BTW, why would you apologize to Wilko? His fairy tale ideas about an
immediate pullout and UN control are ridiculous.


I know him, I value his opinions. He has seen more than I ever will.
His thoughts and opinions are not pulled out of mid-air. He is very
very intelligent, in my opinion, and I suspect well read. He has a
different viewpoint than any American is likely to have.

Go back and read what he suggested, then tell it how intelligent they
are. He's pulling completely unworkable "solutions" out of his ass,
based on emotion rather than logic.

Let's not forget that Usenet is a world wide forum.

I'm well aware of that. Stupidity is also a worldwide phenomenon.

And- what I said was- I
am sorry but Kerry will not pull us out of Iraq overnight..... Yes,
we have an obligation to leave them in a bettter situiation. I am
sorry that we will be there for some time, to effect needed changes.
And I am sorry that Americans will die in that effort.

Agreed.

I know folks who are ready to move to Canada! I only hope that one
day I can return to Europe for a visit without being ashamed of being
an American.

Why would you be ashamed? Have YOU done anything that you consider wrong
or hurtful to the rest of the world? There's a big difference between
"the government" and "the people", here and everywhere around the world.
There are many things I'm not pleased with about our culture and
government policies, but that doesn't make me ashamed to be an American.



I agree, was it Ed Abbey that said, love your country, but hate
(?mistrust?) it's government. Unfortunatly, the man I (and the
majority in this country) voted for did not get into office.

Are you still whining about the election? It's been 3 1/2 years, get
over it.

Maybe "ashamed" was not the best word I could have used. But I was
sure not proud that I was an American, when I was in Europe. It is a
big world, and many of the people in it don't like me, because of my
government.

Then they are narrow minded idiots. Do you hate all Saudis because a
bunch of them took down the WTC on 9/11? I certainly don't and there's
no reason for anyone not to make similar distinctions between people and
governments.

America attacked Iraq without just cause.

I don't agree.

So we are scorned in many places. Do you like that?

Of course not, but it's nothing new. There will always be people who
hate us because we're the "big kid on the block". We're constantly in
no-win situations. If we act, we're criticized. If we don't act and some
bad happens as a result, we're criticized. The world if full of "Monday
morning quarterbacks" and we're never going to win them all over.

You (or someone in this thread) mentioned something about my being a
troll.

It wasn't me.