Right of Way
 

On 19/08/2011 3:44 AM, BeachBum wrote:
On 8/19/2011 1:14 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:20:48 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:31:50 -0700, wrote:

Tankers and large vessels are required by international law to avoid
collisions. They are not necessarily restricted in maneuverability,
since there are nothing preventing them from moving to one side or the
other

Nothing but physics.
I am sure you have never actually been at the helm of a ship. I have
(Coast Guard cutters 311 and 327 feet).

Depends on the definition of ship. I've been "at the helm" of several
sailboats. It may be a matter of "simple physics" but that has nothing
to do with the rules of the road as I read them. It's a matter of
following the rules. There's no rule that mentions size.

Even that small a ship does not turn on a dime. We are really talking
about an appreciable part of a mile if you are underway at sea.
That is why it is important that ships coming close to each other
communicate their intentions and follow the rules of the road.

Small boats just have to get the **** out of the way.

Not in International waters when neither boat is restricted. It's the
obligation of the much faster boat to not run over a much slower boat
like a sailboat. The tanker is going, what 30 mph or knots? I doubt a
small sailboat would be able to get out of the way, and I've read
reports where nobody on the tanker is even looking.

I have seen people try to race freighters to "the crossing" in the
Chesapeake bay to find out the freighter is going as fast as they are.
It is fun to watch them make a tactical retreat but they do get a good
rocking. If they did press this right of way thing they would wash up
on the beach in Norfolk.

Again, this has nothing to do with the discussion. I have no doubt
it's fun to watch.

Your knowledge and attitude would make any boat you pilot a hazard to
navigation. You are an incompetent and insane skipper. And I use the
term skipper very loosely. Thank god you don't own even part of a boat.

And is too broke to rent one.
--
Flea party (leftie) fear, begets flea party smear.

Right of Way
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:39:10 -0400, wrote:

The RADAR we had in 1965 probably wasn't as good as what you have on
your trawler today.

No question about it. It would have taken a whole ship full of
electronics to duplicate the functionality, just like with computer
equipment. The CPU power and storage of our three laptops would have
taken an entire large scale data center, and the high speed data
bandwidth that we now take for granted didn't even exist. I had a few
summer jobs with AT&T during he early '60s and 1200 baud was high
speed datacomm at that time.

Right of Way
 

On Aug 19, 3:14*pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:39:10 -0400, wrote:
The RADAR we had in 1965 probably wasn't as good as what you have on
your trawler today.

No question about it. *It would have taken a whole ship full of
electronics to duplicate the functionality, just like with computer
equipment. *The CPU power and storage of our three laptops would have
taken an entire large scale data center, and the high speed data
bandwidth that we now take for granted didn't even exist. *I had a few
summer jobs with AT&T during he early '60s and 1200 baud was high
speed datacomm at that time.

"...and 1200 baud was high speed datacomm at that time. "

Blinding speed!

?8^0

Right of Way
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 13:23:05 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:20:31 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:39:16 -0400, John H
wrote:

Take the limiting case of two tankers. The one overtaking is 700 ft
long. The one being overtaken is 300 ft long. Your claim that the
smaller one must get out of the way of the bigger one is nonsense.

In that example both boats re restricted in their ability to maneuver
by virtue of their size. They are governed by the rules of the road
however which say that the vessel being overtaken is the "stand on"
vessel (see COLREGS definitions). That said, both vessels have the
obligation to avoid a collission. If there is doubt about another
vessels intent, they are *required* to make contact on the radio
and/or signal their intentions using whistles or horns.

I have found, in my 67 years on this earth, that admitting an error is extremely difficult for some
folks.

I expect you will be bombarded with inanities until you give up.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong this time.

I have found, in my years on this earth, that it's quite easy to
figure out who's a liar and/or a racist in a very short period of
time.

You are both.

Right of Way
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 13:04:35 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:12:47 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 01:45:15 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:14:16 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:20:48 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:31:50 -0700, wrote:

Tankers and large vessels are required by international law to avoid
collisions. They are not necessarily restricted in maneuverability,
since there are nothing preventing them from moving to one side or the
other

Nothing but physics.
I am sure you have never actually been at the helm of a ship. I have
(Coast Guard cutters 311 and 327 feet).

Depends on the definition of ship. I've been "at the helm" of several
sailboats. It may be a matter of "simple physics" but that has nothing
to do with the rules of the road as I read them. It's a matter of
following the rules. There's no rule that mentions size.

How "evasive" do you think a 200,000 ton tanker is?
In that short clip you might not even have seen the effect of turning
the rudder over full.
It is not a "rule" it is a law.
Newtons first law of motion.

As I said, on the open ocean when it's pretty clear from a great
distance that one is going to run down the other, it's the obligation
of the one running the other down to avoid it.

Your comment has nothing to do with the original thread.

A tanker is not going to be able to turn to avoid a sailboat that he
probably can't even see from the bridge.

What about when it can? What about when it knows it's there? As I
said, repeatedly, size isn't listed in the regulations related to this
issue.

Even that small a ship does not turn on a dime. We are really talking
about an appreciable part of a mile if you are underway at sea.
That is why it is important that ships coming close to each other
communicate their intentions and follow the rules of the road.

Small boats just have to get the **** out of the way.

Not in International waters when neither boat is restricted. It's the
obligation of the much faster boat to not run over a much slower boat
like a sailboat. The tanker is going, what 30 mph or knots? I doubt a
small sailboat would be able to get out of the way, and I've read
reports where nobody on the tanker is even looking.

Looking? He couldn't even see a boat that close to him and this did
not look like international waters to me.

I wasn't talking about that case. I clearly and REPEATEDLY said that
the sailboat was at fault.

I have seen people try to race freighters to "the crossing" in the
Chesapeake bay to find out the freighter is going as fast as they are.
It is fun to watch them make a tactical retreat but they do get a good
rocking. If they did press this right of way thing they would wash up
on the beach in Norfolk.

Again, this has nothing to do with the discussion. I have no doubt
it's fun to watch.

Of course it does, What the hell was that sailboat doing if it wasn't
trying to beat the tanker to the crossing and get by in front of him.
I bet he forgot the tanker was going to take away the wind.

See previous and get off your high horse.

The guy in the sailboat was clearly 100% wrong

See previous. You're arguing with me because you haven't read what I
wrote.


As usual you changed the subject and went off on a totally unrelated
tangent and then call everyone who questions you a moron.

That is why I should know better than to ever feed the troll.
I apologize to the group

I did not. I was talking about Tim's vid link postings. Sorry if you
can't figure it out. I even quoted his links directly.

You're welcome to not reply to anything I post. As usual, you'd rather
hide.

Right of Way
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:29:38 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 19/08/2011 11:22 AM, Jimmy wrote:
On 8/19/2011 1:04 PM, wrote:

As usual you changed the subject and went off on a totally unrelated
tangent and then call everyone who questions you a moron.

That is why I should know better than to ever feed the troll.
I apologize to the group

That's _precisely_ what I thought when I read it. A tanker and a sail
boat somehow became a tanker and a tanker.

Ouch!

Especially if deplume was a captain of one.

Especially if you're an idiot, which you are.

Right of Way
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:28:41 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 19/08/2011 9:12 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 01:45:15 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:14:16 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:20:48 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:31:50 -0700, wrote:

Tankers and large vessels are required by international law to avoid
collisions. They are not necessarily restricted in maneuverability,
since there are nothing preventing them from moving to one side or the
other

Nothing but physics.
I am sure you have never actually been at the helm of a ship. I have
(Coast Guard cutters 311 and 327 feet).

Depends on the definition of ship. I've been "at the helm" of several
sailboats. It may be a matter of "simple physics" but that has nothing
to do with the rules of the road as I read them. It's a matter of
following the rules. There's no rule that mentions size.

How "evasive" do you think a 200,000 ton tanker is?
In that short clip you might not even have seen the effect of turning
the rudder over full.
It is not a "rule" it is a law.
Newtons first law of motion.

As I said, on the open ocean when it's pretty clear from a great
distance that one is going to run down the other, it's the obligation
of the one running the other down to avoid it.

Your comment has nothing to do with the original thread.

A tanker is not going to be able to turn to avoid a sailboat that he
probably can't even see from the bridge.

What about when it can? What about when it knows it's there? As I
said, repeatedly, size isn't listed in the regulations related to this
issue.

Even that small a ship does not turn on a dime. We are really talking
about an appreciable part of a mile if you are underway at sea.
That is why it is important that ships coming close to each other
communicate their intentions and follow the rules of the road.

Small boats just have to get the **** out of the way.

Not in International waters when neither boat is restricted. It's the
obligation of the much faster boat to not run over a much slower boat
like a sailboat. The tanker is going, what 30 mph or knots? I doubt a
small sailboat would be able to get out of the way, and I've read
reports where nobody on the tanker is even looking.

Looking? He couldn't even see a boat that close to him and this did
not look like international waters to me.

I wasn't talking about that case. I clearly and REPEATEDLY said that
the sailboat was at fault.

I have seen people try to race freighters to "the crossing" in the
Chesapeake bay to find out the freighter is going as fast as they are.
It is fun to watch them make a tactical retreat but they do get a good
rocking. If they did press this right of way thing they would wash up
on the beach in Norfolk.

Again, this has nothing to do with the discussion. I have no doubt
it's fun to watch.

Of course it does, What the hell was that sailboat doing if it wasn't
trying to beat the tanker to the crossing and get by in front of him.
I bet he forgot the tanker was going to take away the wind.

See previous and get off your high horse.

The guy in the sailboat was clearly 100% wrong

See previous. You're arguing with me because you haven't read what I
wrote.

It wasn't worth reading.

Yes, we know you can't read.

Right of Way
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 13:47:17 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 01:45:15 -0400, wrote:

Not in International waters when neither boat is restricted. It's the
obligation of the much faster boat to not run over a much slower boat
like a sailboat. The tanker is going, what 30 mph or knots? I doubt a
small sailboat would be able to get out of the way, and I've read
reports where nobody on the tanker is even looking.

Yes Greg, I know that is not your post.

The above statement is total nonsense. Rule 18(b) is identical for
both local and international waters, no difference, nada.

A *large* (tanker/freighter/warship) is always limited in it's ability
to maneuver. It can take two or three miles to turn or stop, which by
anyone's definition is limited.

Just this morning we heard some weenie on a sailboat complaining to
the coast guard on marine VHF radio that a large naval warship coming
out of Naraganset Bay, Rhode Island was not granting right of way to
his sailboat. He was practically laughed off the radio by everyone
who heard the broadcast.

There is nothing anywhere in the Rules of the Road/COLREGS which
discusses the obligations of a so called "larger/faster" vessel.

Meanwhile all of these rules are readily available on the internet
along with definitions, examples, practice questions, etc. Whoever is
posting this drivel (and I can guess), should take some time to study
all of the above and take a course or two before even thinking about
setting foot behind the wheel of a boat.

So, what you're tell us is that with the "always" comment is that you
know very little about boating, which is pretty shocking.

Again, take the case of two tankers. Both see each other on radar, for
example, in international waters, many miles apart. Which one is
"restricted"? Neither. As I've said, and which you've deliberately
ignored is that there is no mention of "size" in 18b. But, you're not
enough of a man to admit that. Neither do you have enough brains to
actually read the rules, apparently.

Right of Way
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:39:10 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 13:47:17 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 01:45:15 -0400, wrote:

Not in International waters when neither boat is restricted. It's the
obligation of the much faster boat to not run over a much slower boat
like a sailboat. The tanker is going, what 30 mph or knots? I doubt a
small sailboat would be able to get out of the way, and I've read
reports where nobody on the tanker is even looking.

Yes Greg, I know that is not your post.

The above statement is total nonsense. Rule 18(b) is identical for
both local and international waters, no difference, nada.

A *large* (tanker/freighter/warship) is always limited in it's ability
to maneuver. It can take two or three miles to turn or stop, which by
anyone's definition is limited.

Just this morning we heard some weenie on a sailboat complaining to
the coast guard on marine VHF radio that a large naval warship coming
out of Naraganset Bay, Rhode Island was not granting right of way to
his sailboat. He was practically laughed off the radio by everyone
who heard the broadcast.

There is nothing anywhere in the Rules of the Road/COLREGS which
discusses the obligations of a so called "larger/faster" vessel.

Meanwhile all of these rules are readily available on the internet
along with definitions, examples, practice questions, etc. Whoever is
posting this drivel (and I can guess), should take some time to study
all of the above and take a course or two before even thinking about
setting foot behind the wheel of a boat.

I was always amazed at how small boats would play chicken with a
weather cutter. It never happened around Norfolk because those folks
knew the warships maintain course and speed but we had it in Nassau.

That was before they had a lot of cruise ship traffic.

The funny thing is our weather cutters had an E2 or E3 at the helm and
if this was outside the harbor, the OD was usually down in officer
country reading a book or napping. The ship was operated by three of
the most junior non-rated guys on the boat, (deck watch was a
helmsman, a lookout and a messenger) They had a standing order to
maintain course and speed unless the lookout saw a contact on RADAR or
made some visual contact. Then the messenger went for the OD. If you
had a little boat, offshore at night without a decent RADAR reflector
we might just run over your ass and never know it.

The RADAR we had in 1965 probably wasn't as good as what you have on
your trawler today. There was certainly no autopilot capability or the
"fly by wire" controls they have on ships now. This was state of the
art stuff in WWII but pretty dated, even for the 60s. I think they
updated it right before we gave the ships to the Vietnamese.

Keep hiding. Don't address the actual post. So much for all you "boys"
claiming I don't do boating related posts.

Right of Way
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:30:35 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 19/08/2011 3:44 AM, BeachBum wrote:
On 8/19/2011 1:14 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:20:48 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:31:50 -0700, wrote:

Tankers and large vessels are required by international law to avoid
collisions. They are not necessarily restricted in maneuverability,
since there are nothing preventing them from moving to one side or the
other

Nothing but physics.
I am sure you have never actually been at the helm of a ship. I have
(Coast Guard cutters 311 and 327 feet).

Depends on the definition of ship. I've been "at the helm" of several
sailboats. It may be a matter of "simple physics" but that has nothing
to do with the rules of the road as I read them. It's a matter of
following the rules. There's no rule that mentions size.

Even that small a ship does not turn on a dime. We are really talking
about an appreciable part of a mile if you are underway at sea.
That is why it is important that ships coming close to each other
communicate their intentions and follow the rules of the road.

Small boats just have to get the **** out of the way.

Not in International waters when neither boat is restricted. It's the
obligation of the much faster boat to not run over a much slower boat
like a sailboat. The tanker is going, what 30 mph or knots? I doubt a
small sailboat would be able to get out of the way, and I've read
reports where nobody on the tanker is even looking.

I have seen people try to race freighters to "the crossing" in the
Chesapeake bay to find out the freighter is going as fast as they are.
It is fun to watch them make a tactical retreat but they do get a good
rocking. If they did press this right of way thing they would wash up
on the beach in Norfolk.

Again, this has nothing to do with the discussion. I have no doubt
it's fun to watch.

Your knowledge and attitude would make any boat you pilot a hazard to
navigation. You are an incompetent and insane skipper. And I use the
term skipper very loosely. Thank god you don't own even part of a boat.

And is too broke to rent one.

Whoo... two losers agree! Shocking!